flourescent lights

[bikeman564™]

Our office has these, no big surprise. But they do not last long. Every so often one goes out, then another, now there's ≈25% burn oot. Then maintenance will replace them and it goes to super bright in here These bulbs suck.

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said:

Our office has these, no big surprise. But they do not last long. Every so often one goes out, then another, now there's ≈25% burn oot. Then maintenance will replace them and it goes to super bright in here These bulbs suck.

But they are SUPER fun to take outside to the parking lot and smash!!!  A javelin throw with a bulb is awesome.  Maybe a slo-mo vid would be neat too.

[bikeman564™]

4 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

But they are SUPER fun to take outside to the parking lot and smash!!!  A javelin throw with a bulb is awesome.  Maybe a slo-mo vid would be neat too.

never did that

[Razors Edge ★]

4 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said:

never did that

Man, it is super fun.

I remember once, as a kid, my buddy had long fluorescent lights in his finished basement.  His parents had some spares in the storage room, and we found them and took them outside to blow up (along with regular lightbulbs).  It was a short but sweet moment of childish chaos.  He got in trouble - of course - but it started a lifelong joy of smashing bulbs and other things for me   I love going to the recycling center and hurling glass bottles at the back of the dumpster.  

[Parr8hed]

3 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said:

never did that

[bikeman564™]

I want to do this, I have towers behind my condo.

@Thaddeus Kosciuszko is this true?

 

[donkpow]

You should check the quality of your electrical system grounds. Before the end of the day, if you don't mind.

Are these energy saver bulbs or the older wasteful bulbs. Please confirm ASAP.

Older fixtures are inefficient and their quality diminishes over time. You will need to open the housing and see what kind of transformer is installed. You can wait until tomorrow to do that, if you want.

[Longjohn ★]

44 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

But they are SUPER fun to take outside to the parking lot and smash!!!  A javelin throw with a bulb is awesome.  Maybe a slo-mo vid would be neat too.

Do you run slime in your tires? Smashing bulbs in the parking lot sounds like an invitation for flat tires.

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, Longjohn said:

Do you run slime in your tires? Smashing bulbs in the parking lot sounds like an invitation for flat tires.

Not my parking lot! At Bikeman's office

Luckily, though, fluorescent lights - the long tube ones - don't seem to be made of very tough glass and I think a bike tire would be fine.

[Longjohn ★]

2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Not my parking lot! At Bikeman's office

Luckily, though, fluorescent lights - the long tube ones - don't seem to be made of very tough glass and I think a bike tire would be fine.

On our New Years Day ride in Pittsburgh one of the guys in our group of five that stayed together got a sliver of glass in his tire on a switchback ramp going up to a bridge. Could have been from a broken light bulb? Fixing a flat on January 1st isn’t much fun.

[Bikeguy]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:29 AM, bikeman564™ said:

I want to do this, I have towers behind my condo.

@Thaddeus Kosciuszko is this true?

Yes that will happen.    

Note... the transmission line is a 765KV line.   They are kind of rare.  (we had one)  They have bundles of 4 conductors per phase.  

Towers (at least in our service territory) also were used for 138 KV and 345 KV lines.  The EMF under those transmission lines would be proportionally lower.  I'm not sure the bulb will flicker under a 138 KV line, 

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

On 1/24/2023 at 9:29 AM, bikeman564™ said:

is this true?

Of course it is!

You can't put stuff on the internet if it isn't true, you know.

 

 

(PS - See Bikeguy's answer.  Having lived that life, he's in the know.    )

[shootingstar]

Hmm...this wk., I was dealing with a dept. which deals with waste and recycling for municipality.  She mentioned about required flurorescent bulbs we have pay contract firms to haul from our landfill sites.  We don't have technology to "recycle" these bulbs.

It was discussion about reports our organization need to receive..to show in fact the work done.  There's a cost to all of this.

bikeman sounds wierd that there is a noticeable higher % of burnt out bulbs. Of course, we have them all over inside on all floors. I work in a building built in late 1960's..and accommodates 2,000 people.

[Bikeguy]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:17 AM, Razors Edge said:

But they are SUPER fun to take outside to the parking lot and smash!!!  A javelin throw with a bulb is awesome.  Maybe a slo-mo vid would be neat too.

  So it's fun to dump mercury into the environment?   

https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mercuryexposure_fluorescentbulbs_factsheet.pdf

[KrAzY]

just pull them out of the ceiling and have your cubical partner play Star Wars with you. they make great light sabers! 

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

8 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

So it's fun to dump mercury into the environment?

 

It's little known fact that smashing fluorescent bulbs, even a few, when you're a kid can cause considerable permanent brain damage.

So maybe we shouldn't judge too quickly....

.

.

.

 .

[KrAzY]

6 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

  So it's fun to dump mercury into the environment?   

https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mercuryexposure_fluorescentbulbs_factsheet.pdf

Mercury in florescent lights is a vapor. It evaporates and dissipates in the heat anyway when it is naturally made in the earth. what was once contained shall be set free one day. Florescent bulbs only contain roughly 4 milliliters of mercury, where a thermometer held 500 milligrams. The earth produces somewhere around 2220 metric tons of mercury emissions each year. 

[Further]

1 hour ago, Bikeguy said:

Yes that will happen.    

Note... the transmission line is a 765KV line.   They are kind of rare.  (we had one)  They have bundles of 4 conductors per phase.  

Towers (at least in our service territory) also were used for 138 KV and 345 KV lines.  The EMF under those transmission lines would be proportionally lower.  I'm not sure the bulb will flicker under a 138 KV line, 

Why do they use such odd voltages ?

[Further]

On 1/24/2023 at 9:14 AM, bikeman564™ said:

Our office has these, no big surprise. But they do not last long. Every so often one goes out, then another, now there's ≈25% burn oot. Then maintenance will replace them and it goes to super bright in here These bulbs suck.

If they are not relamping with LED's they are just being stupid, or maybe it's a job security thing

Of course switching to LED requires a bit of rewiring and maybe these are janitors not electricians.

[Bikeguy]

2 hours ago, Further said:

Why do they use such odd voltages ?

The short answer;

  Not sure...     I never asked why.  

I just paid attention and learned. That was good to do for a mechanical engineer who worked for an electric utility.

 

The long answer;

What I leaned about our service area.    

Decades ago 4,000 volt (4 KV) was the voltage used for power distribution in residential areas in our service territory. That was all (well almost all) converted to 12,470 volts (12 KV).  More power can be distributed.  I remember in the 80s working with customers to convert large areas from 4 KV to 12 KV.   A few select areas still use 4 KV for distribution. it would cost way too much to convert some areas. 

138,000 volts (138 KV) and 34,500 volts (34.5 KV) were used for transmission of power between power stations and sub stations.   Somewhere along the way... there was a need for more power (you can only build so many transmission lines in one right of way)  to be moved between larger generating stations and substations over longer distances and 345,000 volt (345 KV) transmission lines were built. 

In the 80s about 90 miles of 765,000 volt (765 KV) transmission line was built in our service territory.  Even more power can be moved.   The equipment used for these lines is EXPENSIVE, but you can move LOTS of power over a long distance.  

The conductors used in transmission lines are interesting too.  They use ACSR cables.    Yeah they are big.   Our 765 KV line will uses a 4 conductor bundle per phase.     I have a short piece of ACSR cable.  It's kind of like this. 

              cross-section of a bundle  >>     

[Ralphie ★]

Aluminium-conductor steel-reinforced cable

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

7 hours ago, Further said:

Why do they use such odd voltages ?

 

4 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

 I never asked why.  

I haven't asked either, and haven't researched it to any great extent.

I believe, based on what I've seen in the industry, that the voltages are based on economics, technology, and practices that developed in each region or country around the world.

Power has to be distributed economically.  Power companies exist to distribute power but also, as a corporation, they exist to make money.  To exaggerate the point, superconductors operating at temperatures well below zero can carry huge currents in small wires, but they're impractical.  They can't be built or maintained economically.  So engineers choose voltages where equipment and conductors can be economically balanced against the costs to buy and operate them.  After all, engineers work for companies too, ones that want to make equipment to sell to utilities at competitive prices with the greatest capabilities.

As Bikeguy noted, the voltages used have gradually risen.  As technology improves - for example, wire insulation - material and equipment becomes less expensive and easier to use a higher voltage relative to what it was before.  As the voltage goes up, the current goes down for transporting the same amount of power.  That in turn means less copper, less steel, lighter conductors and equipment, and less power lost during transportation and distribution.  Technology improvements such as vacuum contacts, SF6, and similar equipment reduce the size of equipment but increase the operating voltage levels.  In turn, these voltage levels will go up to levels that each new technology can safely operate at.

Lastly, engineers are going to work with numbers with which they are comfortable.  In the US, plugs at the wall have 120 volts.  In Japan, some places are 100.  Elsewhere in the world, 230 volts.  The high voltage levels may seem odd and arbitrary (why 138KV instead of 140KV?) but they are in part based upon - I think - the voltage levels engineers previously worked with and what 'seemed' like the next logical step up.  And engineers are all about logic if nothing else.  I think it may be difficult to find any historical evidence of this, but people being people, and habits being habits, I don't doubt that this factor had some influence somewhere along the way.

[donkpow]

[maddmaxx ★]

On 1/24/2023 at 9:21 AM, bikeman564™ said:

never did that

Good.  The filling is toxic.

[bikeman564™]

8 hours ago, Further said:

If they are not relamping with LED's they are just being stupid, or maybe it's a job security thing

Of course switching to LED requires a bit of rewiring and maybe these are janitors not electricians.

I don't like LED.

What job security? Changing lights in a small place is far from a full time job.

[bikeman564™]

6 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

            

I love chit like this you & @Thaddeus Kosciuszko would like my step-dad (retired serviced planner for Detroit Edison).

He has small piece of waar, that's probably Ø2" ish. He told me how many KVs but I forget.

My friend's dad also retired from Edison, kept a piece in his car, ≈18" long to use for protection. Its about as hard as a club

[bikeman564™]

9 hours ago, shootingstar said:

Hmm...this wk., I was dealing with a dept. which deals with waste and recycling for municipality.  She mentioned about required flurorescent bulbs we have pay contract firms to haul from our landfill sites.  We don't have technology to "recycle" these bulbs.

It was discussion about reports our organization need to receive..to show in fact the work done.  There's a cost to all of this.

bikeman sounds wierd that there is a noticeable higher % of burnt out bulbs. Of course, we have them all over inside on all floors. I work in a building built in late 1960's..and accommodates 2,000 people.

They are not the old style flourescent bulbs. They're a newer smaller diameter, probably more efficient, but they burn oot quick. Probably 20 years ago, the company replaced all the bulbs w/ some newer style ones. I remember they rewired because the ballasts were different. These newer bulbs cost more too from what I hear. I don't know if the electrical cost is low enough for the replacement cost? Not my company.

 

 

 

[maddmaxx ★]

My secret lab has 14 bulbs, all replaced with leds.  Different parts of the lab have different temperature bulbs for the correct color needed for work bench or painting or computer area.

[Razors Edge ★]

10 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

So it's fun to dump mercury into the environment?   

It's a big planet. It's the same reason using storm drains for waste oil disposal is fine.  Folks have become too soft these days. We've got tons of room to keep this stuff up, with no discernible impact, so why let a bunch of Nancys tell us not to?

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

6 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

It's a big planet. It's the same reason using storm drains for waste oil disposal is fine.  Folks have become too soft these days. We've got tons of room to keep this stuff up, with no discernible impact, so why let a bunch of Nancys tell us not to?

 

10 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

So maybe we shouldn't judge too quickly....

 

I petition the Forum to allow me to retract my previous statement.

[MickinMD ★]

I used to have them in my basement when I was doing a lot of home shelf, etc. carpentry.

Today, I think LED's would be cheaper.

My 2013 Honda Fit came with fluorescent interior lights.

When the Dome Light burned out, I replaced it and the Cargo Area Light with lower-wattage LED bulbs.

The interior was pleasantly much brighter.

[Razors Edge ★]

5 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

I petition the Forum to allow me to retract my previous statement.

Hey, you folks who want to be led around by apron strings are allowed to live that way.  We've got this huge planet at our disposal and we should keep enjoying it.  Let the future generations worry about the potential impact, if any.

Or, whatever. You be you and skip the joy of tossing a long tube fluorescent bulb off a loading dock! 

[groupw]

Fluorescents are an abomination. I get it for industrial and commercial lighting, but the LED strips are way better IMO. 
I had a good friend who was facilities manager for the old corporation I worked for. They converted from T-12 to T-8 fluorescents about 25 years ago. Partly for energy savings, but also because the faster frequency used to light them caused less flicker which reduced eye strain and therefore less downtime for employees. 
I replaced the fluorescent in my garage with a popular LED unit for garages. Vastly superior!

[bikeman564™]

23 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

I used to have them in my basement when I was doing a lot of home shelf, etc. carpentry.

Today, I think LED's would be cheaper.

My 2013 Honda Fit came with fluorescent interior lights.

When the Dome Light burned out, I replaced it and the Cargo Area Light with lower-wattage LED bulbs.

The interior was pleasantly much brighter.

My maliboo has incandescent dome lights for the rear seat, and LED for the front

I want incandescent in the front, so I'm going to look at  replacing them. It has theater dimming, even my 1994 Grand Prix did. When the door is opened, the lights slowly dim on, then slowly dim off. But the LED's don't slowly dim. It annoys me. And they're too white.

[Razors Edge ★]

10 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said:

And they're too white.

Playing the race card!!!!