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People that come to work sick


Dirtyhip
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That really pisses me off.  Someone is hacking up a lung here.  I am grossed out!

Agreed 100%

 

 

It really irks me. I used to work with a guy (back when I lived in FL) who insisted on coming in to work when sick. When I commented that it was rude as he was probably passing it on to everyone else at work, he responded "well, someone here is probably who gave it to me, so I'm just returning the favor."

 

What an ass.

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There's still a lot of people out there who refuse to call out sick for any illness, no matter how severe, and this is spurred on by the work environment they are in. I've been out a few times this year due to colds that sported a light fever, and whenever I'd tell certain individuals that I'd been sick as the reason for my being out or not replying to some email of theirs, they looked at me like it wasn't an excuse to miss work.

 

The main reason I will call out is because I simply cannot work effectively when I'm sick, and I've given up over the years trying to. It's not really because I'm trying to avoid infecting the office, even though that's a good call as well.

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I got a bad cold from one stupid bitch who, coughing and sneezing, comes into my cubicle and starts asking me questions. She even tells me she has a cold, and I just look at her and told her (in advance of getting this cold)... 'Thanks for giving me your cold'...to which I reminded her that she did again when I came back after being out for 2 days with a fever. I seriously wanted HR to put her on some sort of disciplinary action for that. I spent about a week just recovering from the respiratory effects of that.

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We don't have 'sick days' so if I miss time due to an illness then it cuts into my PTO.  I'm not going to waste time off by being sick so I'm coming into work.  If you don't want me to infect you then tell HR to change their time off policies.

 

Yeah, I know... I'm not part of the problem I AM the problem.

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We don't have 'sick days' so if I miss time due to an illness then it cuts into my PTO.  I'm not going to waste time off by being sick so I'm coming into work.  If you don't want me to infect you then tell HR to change their time off policies.

 

Yeah, I know... I'm not part of the problem I AM the problem.

 

We don't have sick days either. PTO isn't meant for vacation use only. There's no need to change any HR policies, you're just using your time wrongly by getting people sick.

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We don't have sick days either. PTO isn't meant for vacation use only. There's no need to change any HR policies, you're just using your time wrongly by getting people sick.

 

PTO is time off that I earned as part of my compensation package.  It is my time to use as I want. If I want to use it to enjoy days on which I feel good then it that is my choice.

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We don't have sick days either. PTO isn't meant for vacation use only. There's no need to change any HR policies, you're just using your time wrongly by getting people sick.

 

I agree with Mr. Silly.  Are you going to look at the letter of the law, or how it incents behavior?  If there is no "sick time", then people will not use "vacation time" sitting at home, they would much rather come in and do a quarter-ass job while infecting coworkers, many of whom they hate.

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PTO is time off that I earned as part of my compensation package.  It is my time to use as I want. If I want to use it to enjoy days on which I feel good then it that is my choice.

 

This is where you are wrong. PTO is time off as part of your compensation package and is fully intended to be used not only for your good days, but things like serious illness, injury, family emergencies, etc. So yes, it's meant to be used if you are sick enough that you pose a risk to others (as it will impact their PTO). Your company is actually lawfully able to order you to stay home for example if you have the flu or a bad cold, AND it will consume your PTO whether you like it or not. You really should read the policy your company has. A lot of reasons why companies have switched to PTO only policies is precisely because things like 'sick days' were either unused or abused, and people are often out for a variety of reasons. PTO is a good catchall, but one notable side effect is that some types seem to think this means they should no longer call out sick because it impacts their vacation time. But this is usually because the company probably has a **** vacation policy to begin with, like maybe 2 weeks total for even 5 year+ employees. You should find another company to work for if this is the case.

 

I should add that my company provides about 3 weeks plus holidays for a new hire, and those who are more tenured have about 5, which includes me. So maybe my viewpoint is a bit different.

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I agree with Mr. Silly.  Are you going to look at the letter of the law, or how it incents behavior?  If there is no "sick time", then people will not use "vacation time" sitting at home, they would much rather come in and do a quarter-ass job while infecting coworkers, many of whom they hate.

 

PTO isn't vacation time, as I've stated. It's simply an amount of time off you can take for whatever the reason. It's never been meant to be vacation only.

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This is where you are wrong. PTO is time off as part of your compensation package and is fully intended to be used not only for your good days, but things like serious illness, injury, family emergencies, etc. So yes, it's meant to be used if you are sick enough that you pose a risk to others (as it will impact their PTO). Your company is actually lawfully able to order you to stay home for example if you have the flu or a bad cold, AND it will consume your PTO whether you like it or not.

 

Yeah, you can take what it is meant to do and throw it right out the window, because nobody is going to do that.  I have yet to see an employer send anyone home sick, most just don't want to do it on principle.

 

In real life, if an employee used most of their paid time off and have an airline ticket in hand for a 4-day weekend and only 2 days of time off left, then got sick a week before that trip, 99 times out of 100, that employee comes in sick.  You lose, everybody loses, no matter what PTO is 'meant' to do.

 

You can't expect the sickies not to come in, it really is foolish to.

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Wiki:

 

"Paid Time Off or Personal Time Off (PTO) is a policy in some employee handbooks that provides a bank of hours in which the employer pools sick days, vacation days, and personal days that allows employees to use as the need or desire arises. Generally PTO hours cover everything from planned vacations to sick days, and are becoming more prevalent in the field of human resource management. Unlike more traditional leave plans, PTO plans are more flexible because they don't distinguish employee absences from personal days, vacation days, or sick days. Upon employment, the company determines how many PTO hours will be allotted per year and a "rollover" policy."

 

As a former manager of about 20 direct reports, I hated 'sick days' as inevitably some people used more of it than others, and the ones who ran out were screwed even if they had PTO time aplenty. I did like that it allowed for a sort of no questions asked sort of absence system, but in a smaller company, this is unacceptable and a bank of PTO is better.

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PTO isn't vacation time, as I've stated. It's simply an amount of time off you can take for whatever the reason. It's never been meant to be vacation only.

Everyone knows it is for vacation only, in a practical sense.  If you didn't know that, you are the only person in America that didn't.

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Yeah, you can take what it is meant to do and throw it right out the window, because nobody is going to do that.  I have yet to see an employer send anyone home sick, most just don't want to do it on principle.

 

In real life, if an employee used most of their paid time off and have an airline ticket in hand for a 4-day weekend and only 2 days of time off left, then got sick a week before that trip, 99 times out of 100, that employee comes in sick.  You lose, everybody loses, no matter what PTO is 'meant' to do.

 

You can't expect the sickies not to come in, it really is foolish to.

 

Of course, but that's where disciplinary action comes in. If you're out of PTO period, then you're out of a job, period. It works, and yes I've terminated people who have done this by not planning ahead. This is why most PTO policies make you 'accrue' the time off, so that you don't blow through it all.

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Everyone knows it is for vacation only, in a practical sense.  If you didn't know that, you are the only person in America that didn't.

 

No they don't. Strangely, in the past year we've not had anybody blow past their PTO bank and quite a few rollover as well. Anybody with more dire needs have properly applied for FMLA or other options to avoid doing it.

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Of course, but that's where disciplinary action comes in. If you're out of PTO period, then you're out of a job, period. It works, and yes I've terminated people who have done this by not planning ahead. This is why most PTO policies make you 'accrue' the time off, so that you don't blow through it all.

 

Nobody plans on getting sick when they have a vacation planned, but then it happens.  Real life question, is mom or dad going to cancel that family trip out west to the sexual diseases museum because they got sick just before?  They won't.  They will take all kinds of drugs to disguise symptoms and then just get everybody else sick, because (prepare for this earth-shattering eye-opener) people are horrible.  Real world humans don't care about your policy, they care about their plans.  We are a selfish lot, PTO isn't going to change that.

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My company has sent a few people home who were obviously oozing out of every orifice, although granted it's been rare. Most are smart enough to voluntarily stay home...hint hint.

 

Rare is right, just coming in long enough to be sent home is proof that the policy doesn't work.

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Nobody plans on getting sick when they have a vacation planned, but then it happens.  Real life question, is mom or dad going to cancel that family trip out west to the sexual diseases museum because they got sick just before?  They won't.  They will take all kinds of drugs to disguise symptoms and then just get everybody else sick, because (prepare for this earth-shattering eye-opener) people are horrible.  Real world humans don't care about your policy, they care about their plans.  We are a selfish lot, PTO isn't going to change that.

 

If you have a 3 week vacation policy and you've planned a 2-1/2 week vacation in Italy because you think you're a multi billionaire, that's your own stupid fault, not the company's.

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I think for some it is narcissism too.  Like, I am soooooo important that work can't go on without me,

 

Yuh huh, or they have been getting the stink eye because "hey, you sure have been sick a lot during this tedious project" bs, so they come in obviously sick just to prove they aren't faking it.  Again, nobody really gives a shart about most of their coworkers or the policies.

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Rare is right, just coming in long enough to be sent home is proof that the policy doesn't work.

 

Bad employees abound in our culture. We tell people up front that if you have a contagious illness and you report to work anyway with a fever and and obvious symptoms, it's unprofessional behavior. It's not written down, but this is the way it goes. It gets documented. Both PTO and Vacation/Sick days  have their bad points, both get abused or taken advantage of (sick days are often used as backfill on extra vacation time off, naturally).

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Bad employees abound in our culture. We tell people up front that if you have a contagious illness and you report to work anyway with a fever and and obvious symptoms, it's unprofessional behavior. It's not written down, but this is the way it goes. It gets documented. Both PTO and Vacation/Sick days  have their bad points, both get abused or taken advantage of (sick days are often used as backfill on extra vacation time off, naturally).

 

Yeah, they are, but PTO seems way more abuseable by general human nature.  Sick days are more abused by plan-ahead system-gamers.  I think the system gamers are preferrable, at least they are aware.

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Bad employees abound in our culture. We tell people up front that if you have a contagious illness and you report to work anyway with a fever and and obvious symptoms, it's unprofessional behavior. It's not written down, but this is the way it goes. It gets documented. Both PTO and Vacation/Sick days  have their bad points, both get abused or taken advantage of (sick days are often used as backfill on extra vacation time off, naturally).

 

I am I a doctor?  How do I know that my hacking is not just bacterial instead of a contagious virus?  Is the company sending me to medical school so I can clear that up?

 

I am getting a flu shot tomorrow, btw.

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I don't think I understand that at all.

 

I see that sort of behavior a lot unfortunately. This one woman started work here, and she kept mentioning 'often' that she has a thing she does with her husband every year on their anniversary that they don't ever miss. I told her point blank "you will be missing it this year if you intend to work here". (Due to seniority of course, Thanksgiving holidays, etc) She still didn't get it. I'm certain she will be getting a sudden illness that she will call out sick for.

 

That's why I don't like it when people show up to work sick. You didn't feel good enough to work when you took your 2 week vacation to Italy, but you'll feel good enough to come in and provide crappy work quality when you are actually sick? That kinda thing does get documented, even if there's no policy covering it, and I guess many people don't think about this, because I've often made personnel decisions based on people's attendance histories that involve them doing a lot of envelope pushing on PTO policies. Yeah, you followed the letter of the law, but we knew why you called out, and if it comes between you and another employee to get volunteered for a cushy project, guess who gets it?

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I am I a doctor?  How do I know that my hacking is not just bacterial instead of a contagious virus?  Is the company sending me to medical school so I can clear that up?

 

I am getting a flu shot tomorrow, btw.

 

I got mine a few weeks ago. I got the flu late last year, and hated it. 3 days with fever, didn't recover fully for nearly 2 weeks.

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I see that sort of behavior a lot unfortunately. 

 

That's why I don't like it when people show up to work sick. You didn't feel good enough to work when you took your 2 week vacation to Italy, but you'll feel good enough to come in and provide crappy work quality when you are actually sick? That kinda thing does get documented, even if there's no policy covering it, and I guess many people don't think about this, because I've often made personnel decisions based on people's attendance histories that involve them doing a lot of envelope pushing on PTO policies. Yeah, you followed the letter of the law, but we knew why you called out, and if it comes between you and another employee to get volunteered for a cushy project, guess who gets it?

 

Yeah, you will document it when it is noticed.  The best actors are quiet about it.  

 

Your policies fail the human nature test.  They willfully ignore expected human behavior, then you slu t-shame the people rather than the policy.  It seems kind of nazi-esque, too, all this reliance on "documentation", and have produced villains that come in to the office rather than sick people that stay out of it.  

 

You are a monster!

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Yeah, you will document it when it is noticed.  The best actors are quiet about it.  

 

Your policies fail the human nature test.  They willfully ignore expected human behavior, then you slu t-shame the people rather than the policy.  It seems kind of nazi-esque, too, all this reliance on "documentation", and have produced villains that come in to the office rather than sick people that stay out of it.  

 

You are a monster!

 

Well the good part is, we're like acting coaches, we spot even the pros. Of course, we can't spot them prior to hiring, despite the questions we might ask.

 

I like being a monster.

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Well the good part is, we're like acting coaches, we spot even the pros. Of course, we can't spot them prior to hiring, despite the questions we might ask.

 

I like being a monster.

 

I was a monster for a while, I liked that avatar.  It is time to change it again, I think.

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Wait, one shot doesn't last all season?

 

Sometimes, it will wear off and you get sick at the end of the season.  It's a dangerous game though, because I could get sick now.  Right now, it is early flu season.

 

This delay is a tactic that a doc friend suggested to me.  They gave shots in early Oct.  That is way too early, IMHO.  The weather was still warm and flu season hadn't really gotten into full swing.

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Sometimes, it will wear off and you get sick at the end of the season.  It's a dangerous game though, because I could get sick now.  Right now, it is early flu season.

 

This delay is a tactic that a doc friend suggested to me.  They gave shots in early Oct.  That is way too early, IMHO.  The weather was still warm and flu season hadn't really gotten into full swing.

 

Why does the flu only go around when it gets colder?

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