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The Pats are going to roll over the Seahawks with their momentum.  They'll never see what hit them.

 

I don't think so.

 

To be honest, I really didn't see the comeback coming yesterday.  My buddy said (while the Packers were being so damned conservative with the lead) "I want the Packers to win, but they don't deserve to with their screwed up play calling", and then the tide turned and the Seahawks pulled it off.  I enjoyed it.

 

The Colts had the type of game that the Broncos had in last years SB, nothing went right.  Not that I believed the Colts were going to win, just hoping they would, or that they at least would have had a chance.

 

I think the Seahawks aren't going to suck it up for 56 minutes in the SB against the Patriots like they did with the Packers, I see Seattle winning convincingly against the cheating tools from Boston.

 

Speaking of cheating tools, what is the deal with the ball inflation controversy?  I read a little about that, and haven't followed up yet.

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This is what I posted in the other thread.

 

Well I truly have no dog in this fight, and I never thought I would hear myself say this...

 

But I am going to be pulling for the Pats.

 

I really like that Edleman fellow.  He seems to be a hell of a person.  And as much as I dislike him for always dismantling the Colts, Brady is a hell of a QB.  The Pats dominated that game and earned the way to a SB.  The Hawks hit a few lucky plays.  And their bandwagon fans that are now all over my FB feed are on my damn nerves.

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I feel like going into yesterday, popular opinion (not like I have my finger on the pulse or anything) was that the AFC title game was just to see who the Seahawks would beat in the SB.  Yesterday's games seemingly shifted the tide - Seattle hardly looked like the unstoppable force they've been for the last 11 weeks.  Meanwhile the Pats were monsters, but against a very mismatched team.  Not surprising that the Vegas line is close.  

 

The Packers certainly had some success yesterday running slants through the middle of the field.  Tom Brady can make it rain all day with those.  Though I don't expect NE to have the same success running as they did yesterday.

 

I'm not sure NE's D-line can generate the same kind of pressure on Wilson that GB did yesterday.  Clearly he can be pressured into making big mistakes.

 

Given a 4th-and-goal from the 1-foot line, Belichick will go for 7, not 3.  That will help.

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what is the deal with the ball inflation controversy? I read a little about that, and haven't followed up yet.

it sounds like bullshit to me.

They're being accused of deflating balls, but the ball that was in question is a kicking ball. Both teams use the same 12 kicking balls, so it would effect each team in the same way.

It sounds like a case of a writer trying to become known for breaking a story.
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it sounds like bullshit to me.

They're being accused of deflating balls, but the ball that was in question is a kicking ball. Both teams use the same 12 kicking balls, so it would effect each team in the same way.

It sounds like a case of a writer trying to become known for breaking a story.

 

Yeah, sounded like bs to me, too.    So how would a team stack the offensive deck with the soft balls in the rain?  Shouldn't the officials be in charge of the game balls?

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Yeah, sounded like bs to me, too.    So how would a team stack the offensive deck with the soft balls in the rain?  Shouldn't the officials be in charge of the game balls?

 

from that I heard on the local sports radio today, the teams have 2 sets of balls that they present to the officials before the game for inspection.  if they pass, a certain sideline official keeps them for use in the game.  Kicking balls have a slightly different prep from those used in other non-kicking situations.   I also heard the ball switch in the second half involved a kicking ball was still in play, not one of the others

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from that I heard on the local sports radio today, the teams have 2 sets of balls that they present to the officials before the game for inspection.  if they pass, a certain sideline official keeps them for use in the game.  Kicking balls have a slightly different prep from those used in other non-kicking situations.   I also heard the ball switch in the second half involved a kicking ball was still in play, not one of the others

 

You can thank D’Qwell Jackson for sparking Deflate-gate.

According to Bob Glauber of Newsday, the investigation into whether the Patriots intentionally deflated the footballs in play in Saturday’s AFC Championship game began when Jackson intercepted a Tom Brady pass in the second quarter.

Given that each team provides a dozen balls to game officials to use when it is on offense, the Colts might not have known anything was different about New England’s barring the turnover. Ostensibly, a slightly deflated ball would be easier to grip and throw in rainy, windy conditions, as they were playing in Sunday night.

When Jackson returned to the sidelines after his pick, he gave it to a member of the Colts equipment staff, who noticed it felt under-inflated.

The equipment man told coach Chuck Pagano, who relayed the information to General Manager Ryan Grigson, who contacted NFL director of football operations Mike Kensil, who told the officials on the field at halftime.

So while Brady laughed off the suggestion of a conspiracy when asked yesterday, the reality is, he could have kept it from being an issue at all.

All he had to do was throw it to his own teammates, and it’s possible no one would have ever known.

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I have a question regarding the alleged deflated balls:

 

Don't the referees set the ball before every down?  And if they were deflated, wouldn't any referee have noticed this before he placed the ball on the ground before the play to start? Wouldn't a ref handle the ball before Brady did, every time - and thus notice a problem if there was one?

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I have a question regarding the alleged deflated balls:

Don't the referees set the ball before every down? And if they were deflated, wouldn't any referee have noticed this before he placed the ball on the ground before the play to start? Wouldn't a ref handle the ball before Brady did, every time - and thus notice a problem if there was one?

Maybe the refs were paid off by Robert Kraft

:rolleyes:

The Colts turned the ball in as being under inflated. Maybe they deflated the ball.
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"...the NFL's best defense over the course of the season held the vaunted Packer offense to 4.7 yards per play on the day and held Rodgers himself to just 19-of-34 passing for 178 yards, a touchdown and two picks -- a 55.8 QB rating. After acquiring excellent field position numerous times early on, Green Bay's offense would fail to get back into the Seattle red zone over the final three quarters. Seattle's defense held on for just as long as the offense needed them to, and then the offense did their job."

 

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/19/7839799/seahawks-packers-nfc-championship-russell-wilson-aaron-rodgers

 

You're next Brady.

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Does the decade long legacy of cheating tarnish the image of the Patriots to their fanboys as much as it does to the normal every day fan?

 

How are we supposed to tell our kids, hey look the Superbowl champs cheat, because the NFL allows them to?  Son, if you have enough money to pay the fine, you really do not have to obey the rules.  Now go get rich and cheat son!

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Last night’s bombshell from Chris Mortensen of ESPN — that 11 of 12 Patriots footballs from Sunday’s AFC title game were underinflated by two pounds per square inch of pressure — has pushed #Deflategate to new heights, causing many to presume that these measurements mean that the Patriots deliberately deflated the balls.

But plenty of questions remain.  Here’s an effort to address as many of them as possible.  If I’ve missed any, let me know in the comments.  (As if you need an engraved invitation to do so.)

First, why didn’t the officials notice that the balls were underinflated?  The issue reportedly arose after Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson intercepted a pass from Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and the Indianapolis equipment manager noticed that something was amiss.  Multiple officials touch the balls the Patriots are using on every play.  The umpire was repeatedly wiping the ball off with a towel before putting it down for the center.  Simplest explanation:  The officials either didn’t notice that the balls were underinflated or the balls felt no different than they do in other games.

Second, what does a ball that is underinflated by two pounds per square inch feel like?  It’s only a matter of time before ESPN or someone else has a ball inflated at the proper PSI and a ball inflated at the lower PSI for former NFL players to dig their fingers into on the air.  Which may not be compelling TV, but could be instructive.

Third, were the balls properly tested before the game?  With the NFL using mashed-up officiating crews during the postseason, it’s possible that certain procedures fell through the cracks.  Before assuming foul play by the Patriots, it’s important to rule out error by the officials.

Fourth, how big of a factor was the weather?  As noted in a prior post, the ideal gas law controls the operation of the gases that were inside the football.  When the temperature drops, pressure drops.  That’s why, in the winter months, we inevitably have to put air in our tires.  The air isn’t leaking out; when the car is kept in the cold, the pressure inside the tire reduces.  (It’s also why modern cars with automatic in-tire pressure sensors show the pressure increase as the car and its tires heat up with use.)  Although it was a relatively balmy 51 degrees at kickoff on Sunday, a ball inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 72-degree locker room will necessarily experience a decrease in pressure with a 21-degree temperature drop.

Fifth, what was the in-game pressure of the Colts footballs?  If the temperature caused the pressure in the New England balls to drop, it would have happened with the Indianapolis balls, too.  At a minimum, it’s an important comparison that, if it wasn’t done, should have been.

Sixth, how was the chain of custody maintained?  If the NFL plans to conclude that the Patriots did something to the balls absent a confession from someone who deliberately deflated them, it becomes critical to show that no one other than Patriots employees had possession of or access to the balls from the time they were given to the ball attendant until the moment they were taken out of the game.  It also will be important to show that, once the balls were taken out of the game, no one other than game officials or other league employees had access to the balls.

Seventh, how widespread is the practice?  Even if the NFL determines the Patriots deliberately removed air from the footballs, it’s impossible to properly assess the level and degree of “cheating” without considering whether and to what extent others do it.  Maybe most teams do it, which would help explain why the officials didn’t notice it.

Eighth, should the NFL want pristine, fully-inflated footballs?  The NFL wants teams to score points.  With not enough competent quarterbacks to fill up the depth charts of 32 NFL teams, maybe the officials and, in turn, the league routinely look the other way on strategies aimed at allowing the quarterbacks to better grip and throw the footballs.  Why else would the league have changed the procedures in 1999 for kicking balls only?

These issues, and probably others, need to be considered before taking Mortensen’s report and concluding that it means Don Shula was right.  Hopefully, the NFL’s investigation will account for these potential variables both in the investigation and in the eventual public explanation of it.

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Does the decade long legacy of cheating tarnish the image of the Patriots to their fanboys as much as it does to the normal every day fan?

 

I'd hardly call it a "decade-long legacy".  Unsubstantiated allegations in the Rams Super Bowl, and the Jets video in 2007 is all I can remember up to now.

 

I'm certainly not happy about this - what really makes me angry is that I'm sure they didn't need this advantage to beat the hapless Colts.

 

Still waiting for the NFL/media to address my point yesterday (the Colts noticed deflated balls but the refs didn't?)

 

Hey TK - if they measured game balls inside, say in a 70-degree room, and found them to be the correct PSI - could bringing them outside into 20 degrees drop the pressure reading enough to cause a 2psi drop?  I remember PV=NRT but probably not well enough to apply it.

 

edit:  I see RG's helpful post mentions some of the things I did.  Very good.

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Here's the thing about DeflateGate, this silly idea that the New England Patriots used under-inflated footballs in the AFC Championship Game against the Colts:

 

It's not silly.

 

It's the Patriots.

 

If nothing else comes of this – and the prediction here: nothing else comes of this – we'll always have that. Lots of people will forever believe the Patriots cheated the Colts on Sunday. Why? Because it's the Patriots. And they've cheated before. This is the NFL franchise that was busted for spying on opposing teams. It is run by the same man, Bill Belichick. Either you are, or you are not, willing to cheat.

 

And Belichick is. The NFL found him guilty of – even responsible for – the Spygate scandal during the 2007 season. With very few exceptions, people can be divided into various either/or categories: Employed or unemployed. Smoker or nonsmoker.

 

Cheater or not a cheater.

 

Belichick's a cheat.

 

Indiana knows about this. The Hoosiers hired Kelvin Sampson in 2007, shortly after he had been busted for NCAA recruiting violations involving impermissible phone calls at Oklahoma. The idea in Bloomington, surely, was this: No way he'd do it again.

 

He did it again.

 

Cheaters cheat. It's what they do.

 

Now then, is that a definitive statement that Bill Belichick or the Patriots cheated the Colts on Sunday? Nope. It is not. But it's a definitive statement that his past history of cheating makes this allegation – which is ludicrous and absurd and really, really, hard to believe – not so ludicrous. Not so absurd.

 

Not at all hard to believe.

 

This sort of thing has happened before. Deflating a football is a thing, thanks to Lane Kiffin's 2012 USC Trojans, who were fined and reprimanded by the Pac-12 for deflating footballs against Oregon. Kiffin denied it. A team equipment manager was fired. Was the equipment manager acting on his own? Well sure, that's possible.

 

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Bill Belichick says he didn't know about DeflateGate until Monday morning.(Photo: Jim Rogash, Getty Images)

 

Just like it's possible the Patriots are utterly and completely innocent of the allegation against them now, that they deflated one or more footballs on the sideline after NFL officials had examined them before kickoff.

 

Several points to be made there:

First, any idea how easy it is to deflate a football? It requires one little needle. That's it. Hold the ball, jab the needle, listen for the hiss. Take the needle out. Not saying – at all – the Patriots cheated. But if they did? Don't expect video evidence. Video of what? Of a guy holding the ball, covering it to keep it dry from the rain? No video.

 

Second, any idea how awkward it feels to write this story from here, in Indianapolis, as if deflated balls might be the reason this city's team lost on Sunday? The footballs aren't the reason. That game wasn't about the Deflatriots. It was about the Patriots. They're better than the Colts, so much better than lots of us – the line starts right here– had given them credit for. The Patriots were tougher, more skilled, more poised and more innovative. In hindsight the Colts had no chance.

 

Third: What if?

 

What if the NFL finds that the Patriots were in fact using a football that was deflated below regulation levels? Maybe the NFL won't be able to determine when or how it happened.

 

What then?

 

I'll tell you what should happen: The Patriots should be removed from the Super Bowl. Which means the Colts should be going to Glendale. Will this happen? Of course not, which is why I'm mentioning it way down the story – it has to be said somewhere – but not starting this column with that idea. Because it's a preposterous idea, not worthy of the headline. The NFL would never, ever remove the Patriots from the Super Bowl, even if it does find they were using illegal footballs.

 

Forfeiture of the AFC Championship Game should be the penalty, however, and not because "the Colts would have won otherwise." No, they would not. The Colts could have pulled the ol' switcheroo on the Patriots, using deflated balls while the Patriots were using the hard and slick ones, and the Patriots still would have won. How big? Something close to 45-7.

This isn't about the Patriots' alleged advantage. This is about their alleged intentions.

 

Cheating can't be tolerated. Simple as that. A team can't use an under-inflated football, get caught, and then be allowed to play its next game – a game it reached by winning the one with the deflated football – as if nothing happened.

 

A fine? Is that the main punishment any team guilty of deflating the football should get in this circumstance? Man, fine this.

Not a fine, not a docking of draft picks, not even a lifetime suspension of Belichick, though I would support all three, if the Patriots are found guilty of cheating. Sorry -- left out a word. If the Patriots are found guilty of cheating … again.

Meantime, allow the system to run its course. The Patriots are innocent until proven guilty. They deserve that.

 

Even if lots of us have made up our minds already.

 

Because the Patriots deserve that, too.

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Ok, so if it is proven that the Patriots cheated, should they be disqualified and have the Colts go in their place? I like this this scenario the most, as it will piss off the tools in NE so much. Sadly, I don't see this happening, though.

the penalty for tampering with the football is a $25k fine.

We know there was less air in the footballs, but why didn't the refs notice?

Who let the air out? Maybe if teams were allowed to videotape the sidelines, there would be evidence of tampering.

We're the balls ever inspected by the officials?
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Ok, so here is a possible scenaro:  

 

The Deflatriots massively warm the footballs, increasing the pressure inside, then take them outside and let the cold drop the pressure quickly.  Easy, no fuss, no real evidence.

 

I could see it, from the Patriots.

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Ok, so here is a possible scenaro:

The Deflatriots massively warm the footballs, increasing the pressure inside, then take them outside and let the cold drop the pressure quickly. Easy, no fuss, no real evidence.

I could see it, from the Patriots.

the refs are supposed to inspect the balls, and then turn them over to the ball attendant. The team doesn't get them back, and the officials have contact with the balls on every play.

I think the NFL fixed the game, and Goodell needs to be fired.
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I'd hardly call it a "decade-long legacy".  Unsubstantiated allegations in the Rams Super Bowl, and the Jets video in 2007 is all I can remember up to now.

 

I'm certainly not happy about this - what really makes me angry is that I'm sure they didn't need this advantage to beat the hapless Colts.

 

Still waiting for the NFL/media to address my point yesterday (the Colts noticed deflated balls but the refs didn't?)

 

Hey TK - if they measured game balls inside, say in a 70-degree room, and found them to be the correct PSI - could bringing them outside into 20 degrees drop the pressure reading enough to cause a 2psi drop?  I remember PV=NRT but probably not well enough to apply it.

 

edit:  I see RG's helpful post mentions some of the things I did.  Very good.

Here is the thing.  Many will always see Tony Romo as a choker, overpaid, substandard, based on a few high light / blooper real plays, regardless of how well he has performed with a constanlty changing coaching staff and average talent around him.

 

Same thing with Belichick and the Patriots.  Where there is smoke, there is fire. the perception across the NFL is that the Patriots and Belichick have a culture of bending the rules, blurring the lines and often crossing the lines, knowing that if they get caught, they pay a fine and move on.

 

So like it or not, they have a decade long perception of cheating, from Spygate, to injury reports, to hints of having playbooks, not following acceptred norms or rules when declaring players ineligible, etc

 

Just my two cents.

 

And I think the culture starts at the top.  Remember snow blower gate with Ron Meyer?  Funnily, the same cheating Ron Meyer who got SMU the death penalty for blatant disregard for rules.

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Zero and I must say I believe that was fortunate. And I will go as far as to say if we turn the ball over more than 2 times against you deflators, we lose. I would just hate to see you get lulled into false sense of supremacy with your victory over the Dolts.

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 I would just hate to see you get lulled into false sense of supremacy with your victory over the Dolts.

If Indy was a good team, with a history of beating strong teams with a great defense, I could see the Patriots looking at that game like a great victory.

 

The Colts defense sucks and they didn't beat a good team all year. Their best win was against Denver, but Manning was a corpse in that game.

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If Indy was a good team, with a history of beating strong teams with a great defense, I could see the Patriots looking at that game like a great victory.

 

The Colts defense sucks and they didn't beat a good team all year. Their best win was against Denver, but Manning was a corpse in that game.

Dallas beat the Colts by an almost identical score.   Just saying.  42-7

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