Sorry, bike question: Are Nishiki bikes any good?

[Ralphie ★]

Hmm - sold by Dick's Big Box for cheap is not a good sign.

 

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

Forgive me, but I'm a bit puzzled why you would ask a bike-related question here... 

I thought this was the Forum for advice on thank you notes and casement windows.

[Ralphie ★]

3 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

Forgive me, but I'm a bit puzzled why you would ask a bike-related question here... 

I thought this was the Forum for advice on thank you notes and casement windows.

My memory sucks!  I was going to put a disclaimer/apology on it, but I forgot.   I'll go back and retroactively put one on.   Thanks!

So is it being a bike snob to advise people not to buy big box bikes?

 

[maddmaxx ★]

Dicks Sporting Goods (see what I did there for safety) has better bikes than Walmart.  Some Dicks Sporting Goods stores have pretty good department managers.  It was there that I got my first clue that led to my new bike.

[Chris...]

I had one from the 70's. I wish I had kept it for the frame. Horizontal dropouts.

[Rattlecan ★]

Do they still make Nishiki bikes? Back in the day, they were turning out good, serviceable bikes like most of their Japanese counterparts.

 I have a 1983 Nishiki road bike. It's an entry level frame, but it rides very nice, and I expect it will outlast me.

[JerrySTL ★]

Which bike? Dick's sells about a dozen different models.

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=17398556&bc=CatGroup_NishikiBikesCyclingAccessories_R1_C4_ViewAllNishikiBikes

[FX_James_7.9]

Check out State Bicycles

[Page Turner]

...I don't think any of the Japanese, French, or American brands you see for sale online at a discount or in big box stores are produced by the original companies.  The names changed hands, so you see a lot ot Chinese made Motbecanes, Schwinns, and I presume these Nishiki's are the same deal.

 

Here's one I have here from the 80's. Solid bicycle.  Nothing high end or outstanding, just a solid touring geometry bicycle with room for fenders and good, durable components.

 

 

[sheep_herder ★]

1 hour ago, Page Turner said:

...I don't think any of the Japanese, French, or American brands you see for sale online at a discount or in big box stores are produced by the original companies.  The names changed hands, so you see a lot ot Chinese made Motbecanes, Schwinns, and I presume these Nishiki's are the same deal.

 

Here's one I have here from the 80's. Solid bicycle.  Nothing high end or outstanding, just a solid touring geometry bicycle with room for fenders and good, durable components.

 

 

And you can bet money, that the current day ones will not have any Sun Tour components and will probably not be double butted. 

[maddmaxx ★]

Page is right.  The Pacifica deal (and I think others since then) was so big that many traditional brands such as Diamondback, Mongoose, Schwinn et al were bought up for their names.  For a long time this led to Wal-Mart quality bikes with known brand names.  It still does but some of the brands are coming back with mid and even upper level stuff.  IMO the names will forever be damaged in the sight of many cyclists for that.  Today though, in addition to the lower end bikes, you can walk into some big box stores like Dicks Sporting Goods and find some of these "next step up" bikes.  You can also find some of the same at Performance Bike and Nashbar in the $6/800 range.  The component fit will usually be Shimano Altus or Acera and they will probably be 7 speed.  The wheels will be heavy.  They will have 1 1/8 inch headsets though and all the right places to hang better components later.  This latter point seems to be what differentiates this level from the Wal-Mart grade.  In a world where entry level bikes are up in the thousand and up range they are still a viable choice.  Assembly will depend on the quality of the department manager or yourself however and can vary from place to place.

[Indy]

They are not bad bikes and all of the Dick's around me actually have a bike mechanic putting them together and you can bring them in and have them serviced.  That is really the biggest issue with department store bikes, they aren't built right the first time and takes quite bit of time and effort to get them right.  I've rebuilt several for people in my neighborhood with stripped bolts and things tightened down by an ape.  So often takes a trip to the hardware store or a dig through my spare parts bins to get them right, but once you do, most of the department store bikes are not to bad for what you pay for them.  It's all about them being assembled correctly in the first place.

[Dirtyhip]

I remember Nishiki.  Not sure about them currently.

Sadly, even a nice bike like a Santa Cruz, can become a mess in the wrong hands. Santa Cruz builds are difficult, because everything must be assembled on site.  They don't come partially pre-built. There are even stories of nice carbon bikes being cracked, when the wrong torque is applied.  I think the thing that separates nice bikes vs. Dept. bikes are the materials used.  Lower grade Aluminum and weaker components.

[Indy]

10 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

I remember Nishiki.  Not sure about them currently.

Sadly, even a nice bike like a Santa Cruz, can become a mess in the wrong hands. Santa Cruz builds are difficult, because everything must be assembled on site.  They don't come partially pre-built. There are even stories of nice carbon bikes being cracked, when the wrong torque is applied.  I think the thing that separates nice bikes vs. Dept. bikes are the materials used.  Lower grade Aluminum and weaker components.

I don't know as I would generally say weaker, cheaper yes.  And the lower grade Al again just means the frame is heavier, not really weaker.  Most of the components are quite heavy and will take a lot of abuse, the problem is most of those bikes are not well maintained which causes them to break.  If you put high end components on those bikes with how they are treated, they wouldn't last as long as they do.  People treat those bike like throw away items, if you treat them right, they are built like tanks and will last for freaking ever.

[Dirtyhip]

10 minutes ago, Indy said:

I don't know as I would generally say weaker, cheaper yes.  And the lower grade Al again just means the frame is heavier, not really weaker.  Most of the components are quite heavy and will take a lot of abuse, the problem is most of those bikes are not well maintained which causes them to break.  If you put high end components on those bikes with how they are treated, they wouldn't last as long as they do.  People treat those bike like throw away items, if you treat them right, they are built like tanks and will last for freaking ever.

There are different grades of aluminum, plastic and steel. I am speaking of weight as well as strength. 

[Indy]

3 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

There are different grades of aluminum, plastic and steel. I am speaking of weight as well as strength. 

I'm completely aware of that, the strength is made up by making the material thicker and thus heavier so your net strength ends up being the same.  If anything, department store bike frames tend to be stronger as they don't care about weight, they care about price and strength.

[Dirtyhip]

11 minutes ago, Indy said:

I'm completely aware of that, the strength is made up by making the material thicker and thus heavier so your net strength ends up being the same.  If anything, department store bike frames tend to be stronger as they don't care about weight, they care about price and strength.

Not sure about them being stronger or them lasting forever.  The video is pretty funny. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=walmart+bike+at+whistler&&view=detail&mid=3CA487F95C2C343956793CA487F95C2C34395679&FORM=VRDGAR

[Indy]

6 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Not sure about them being stronger or them lasting forever.  The video is pretty funny. 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=walmart+bike+at+whistler&&view=detail&mid=3CA487F95C2C343956793CA487F95C2C34395679&FORM=VRDGAR

Held up surprisingly well for what is probably more of an XC bike.  I will fault him on a couple things, even with LBS bikes, I used to always swap out rim brake pads for better pads when I bought them (first thing I did to Graham's BMX bike).  He doesn't say anything about going through the bike and checking to make everything was tight as it should be which again I always do with LBS bikes (I often find thing not tightened enough from LBS as opposed to over tightened from Department stores, no idea why tightening bolts is so difficult for people) which might have led to his handlebar problem.  Of course part of his point might've been to do what most people would do, grab it off the rack and just go straight to the trails and ride.  That aside, was surprisingly how well it held up considering on what he was riding it on, you know typical XC rims are not made for that kind of hits.

 

I remember MOJO always wanted to do this stuff.  Get a department store bike and then go out and trash people on trails with it.  Of course he also wanted to get a good XC bike and put Huffy decals on it along with a kick stand and really break people's egos.

[Dirtyhip]

42 minutes ago, Indy said:

Held up surprisingly well for what is probably more of an XC bike.  I will fault him on a couple things, even with LBS bikes, I used to always swap out rim brake pads for better pads when I bought them (first thing I did to Graham's BMX bike).  He doesn't say anything about going through the bike and checking to make everything was tight as it should be which again I always do with LBS bikes (I often find thing not tightened enough from LBS as opposed to over tightened from Department stores, no idea why tightening bolts is so difficult for people) which might have led to his handlebar problem.  Of course part of his point might've been to do what most people would do, grab it off the rack and just go straight to the trails and ride.  That aside, was surprisingly how well it held up considering on what he was riding it on, you know typical XC rims are not made for that kind of hits.

 

I remember MOJO always wanted to do this stuff.  Get a department store bike and then go out and trash people on trails with it.  Of course he also wanted to get a good XC bike and put Huffy decals on it along with a kick stand and really break people's egos.

Haha. My buddy put a Huffy sticker on a surly. We all called it the huffy.

The guys mentions that he tightened everything down, in the vid. Sadly, there are uunsuspecting folks that may see this FS bike and not understand that it will fall apart if they try to ride it on a mountain bike trail with decent  terrain.

I still think a low end LBS bike would fare better than this bike did. 

[Indy]

38 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Haha. My buddy put a Huffy sticker on a surly. We all called it the huffy.

The guys mentions that he tightened everything down, in the vid. Sadly, there are uunsuspecting folks that may see this FS bike and not understand that it will fall apart if they try to ride it on a mountain bike trail with decent  terrain.

I still think a low end LBS bike would fare better than this bike did. 

Okay, I missed that part and not disagreeing with you.  Of course a cheap hard tailed LBS bike probably would cost more than that FS Huffy he is riding.  A FS department store bike to me is just a bad idea completely as they don't work well and add weight.  I try and steer people away from department store bikes, but if that is what they had, I fix them and try to make them more enjoyable to ride.

As for the original topic, I don't put Dick's really as a department store, they are really closer to REI in regard to bikes.  I'd still prefer an actual LBS if I took one to get worked on since the mechanics are always there, but from my experience, the bikes at Dick's do get worked on by someone who generally knows what they are doing and their bikes a better quality than department store ones like Walmart or Target. 

[LoneWolf]

Nishiki made great bikes once upon a time, during the Japanese import days.  Along with Miyata, Bridgestone, 3Rensho, Centurion, Panasonic, and Univega.  Nishiki also survived into the first couple of generations of hardtail mountain bikes, like the upper-end Alien ACX (which was a fairly good quality bike for the day, in 1990, when the Specialized Stumpjumper was still a baby as well):

Today, it's probably just one more brand name bought by someone else and used for brand recognition.