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Politics and Religion


Square Wheels

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5 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

 

It was not a good fit for this site any longer and it was running over into the other sections.

I'd prefer no one leave, but we no longer offer an avenue to discuss politics or religion.  It rarely ends and even more rarely, ends well.

Truer words never spoken.

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4 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

It may not be heart warming, but it is the reality of the internet.  

Well this is of course true as is the fact that the owner of the site does have the prerogative here and rightly so.

What however is disturbing is the way it was done and the subsequent posts telling those who queried this to leave the forum in a manner best described as tribal. In the eyes of these posters it seems that those who posted in P&R were no longer fellow members it seems but the "others", or in other words "incomers" and treated as such. Disappointing.

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11 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

 

It was not a good fit for this site any longer and it was running over into the other sections.

I'd prefer no one leave, but we no longer offer an avenue to discuss politics or religion.  It rarely ends and even more rarely, ends well.

Politics are a heated subject.  What was it that made you shut it down?  People calling each other names?  Threats? 

I think that when you over regulate a forum, you stop progressive speech. It was already segregated.  During voting time, having an avenue for that is even more important.  Life is not all butterflies and rainbows.  It can be ugly, sexist, angry, and all those bad things.  Ugly is the yin to the yang of beauty.  Maybe it is the other way around.  Whatever.

You said if people don't like it, they can leave, but you don't want people to leave. Opening a second URL, is not the answer.  People aren't going to check all kinds of different sites.  Which is why the bicycling specific rooms are dead.  You have to go back to the main page and open them, and then go back to the off topic to open this one.  I find that cumbersome.  I end up posting about bike things in here.  The other places are ghost towns.  Maybe we don't have enough traffic for tons of rooms.  And you just killed one that was gaining some steam.

Butterflies and rainbows get a little boring day in and day out.  Bring on the thunder.   Where is @Randomguy ?  :loveshower:

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10 minutes ago, onbike1939 said:

What however is disturbing is the way it was done and the subsequent posts telling those who queried this to leave the forum in a manner best described as tribal. In the eyes of these posters it seems that those who posted in P&R were no longer fellow members it seems but the "others", or in other words "incomers" and treated as such.

Please point out to me where I said anyone was not welcome?

I understand that something important to a few people was taken away and it upset them, for this I am sorry.  Again, it was decided that P&R was not a good fit.  Should I have said, hey, next Wednesday this section will be closed?  I don't see what good that would have done.

It was not my intention to cause hard feelings between me and anyone, I apologize if this has happened.

P&R will not come back here.  I have offered to start another site that can be all P&R and it can be started with those posts we already have.  There would close to no rules and you can pick your own moderators, no one has taken me up on that offer.

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9 minutes ago, onbike1939 said:

 

What however is disturbing is the way it was done and the subsequent posts telling those who queried this to leave the forum in a manner best described as tribal. In the eyes of these posters it seems that those who posted in P&R were no longer fellow members it seems but the "others", or in other words "incomers" and treated as such. Disappointing.

 

I feel threatened by the new people

 
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3 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

Please point out to me where I said anyone was not welcome?

I understand that something important to a few people was taken away and it upset them, for this I am sorry.  Again, it was decided that P&R was not a good fit.  Should I have said, hey, next Wednesday this section will be closed?  I don't see what good that would have done.

It was not my intention to cause hard feelings between me and anyone, I apologize if this has happened.

P&R will not come back here.  I have offered to start another site that can be all P&R and it can be started with those posts we already have.  There would close to no rules and you can pick your own moderators, no one has taken me up on that offer.

I'm not sure why you think that I was referring to you. No...it was remarks such as this I was talking about and repeated remarks at that.

17 hours ago, AirwickWithCheese said:

Again this is why it simply will not work for you guys. Everything is not political and moreover no one wants to constantly hear your political opinions. 

If you can't make your very own P & R forum work here, leave. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

And with good reason I might add. It appears from the various popularity polls held in this forum that you are held in low repute....oh yes....your gas is already at a peep here. It follows then that the arrival of a cohort of highly gifted individuals is not going to do you one bit of good Sweetpants. Not that I don't want to help....have you tried posting a few photos of you naked but for your Fire Service galluses?

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12 minutes ago, onbike1939 said:

I'm not sure why you think that I was referring to you.

My fault, since it was my decision to remove P&R, I presumed the comments were directed at me.  @AirwickWithCheese feels very strongly about this site, however the decision was all mine.

I know some will leave over this, but our doors are always open if they decide to return.

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1 minute ago, Amadeus said:

My fault, since it was my decision to remove P&R, I presumed the comments were directed at me.  @AirwickWithCheese feels very strongly about this site, however the decision was all mine.

I know some will leave over this, but our doors are always open if they decide to return.

Well I hope no-one will and certainly I was perfectly happy before P&R existed.

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1 hour ago, Amadeus said:

 

It was not a good fit for this site any longer and it was running over into the other sections.

I'd prefer no one leave, but we no longer offer an avenue to discuss politics or religion.  It rarely ends and even more rarely, ends well.

 

43 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

My fault, since it was my decision to remove P&R, I presumed the comments were directed at me.  @AirwickWithCheese feels very strongly about this site, however the decision was all mine.

I know some will leave over this, but our doors are always open if they decide to return.

I don't need a forum devoted to P&R so removing it isn't important to me. However if I'd known there was going to be a blanket ban on all political or religious discussion regardless of whether it was polite and un-personalised I'd never have come here. I've taken some time out to consider my position since your intervention in the 'Donating to the cause' thread but reluctantly I'll have to respectfully withdraw.

This will be my last post here for the foreseeable future.

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1 hour ago, Caretaker said:

 

I don't need a forum devoted to P&R so removing it isn't important to me. However if I'd known there was going to be a blanket ban on all political or religious discussion regardless of whether it was polite and un-personalised I'd never have come here. I've taken some time out to consider my position since you intervention in the 'Donating to the cause' thread but reluctantly I'll have to respectfully withdraw.

This will be my last post here for the foreseeable future.

I think the P& R forum was originally started because people who have deeply held strange beliefs one way or the other cannot help defending them against overwhelmingly different beliefs, going deeper and deeper into irrationality and obsessive-compulsive defense of these beliefs as something that needed to be respected above all other viewpoints.  

Experience has typically proven that this is true, despite not one shred of evidence one way or the other.  Not one, to something so unknowable, to so many firmly convinced that they are correct.  So, despite being mostly reasonable people and able to function out in the world just fine despite their differences, some people find that that 1/2 of a percent difference in one narrow area is enough to bash each other about the rectum and basically be dickheads to each other from time to time, in the quest to be "correct", never considering that what one person thinks shouldn't affect them in any way shape or form on this earth or any other.

So that is why we can't have nice things, because we can't help ourselves.

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4 hours ago, Caretaker said:

 

I don't need a forum devoted to P&R so removing it isn't important to me. However if I'd known there was going to be a blanket ban on all political or religious discussion regardless of whether it was polite and un-personalised I'd never have come here. I've taken some time out to consider my position since your intervention in the 'Donating to the cause' thread but reluctantly I'll have to respectfully withdraw.

This will be my last post here for the foreseeable future.

Well I for one am sorry about that and those that care about the forum should be also.

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On 11/2/2016 at 11:58 AM, dotman17 said:

I personally came here because I was tired of the P&R scene over there.  I  did not officially get the boot until I came over here when I saw their bullshit monitoring and I called them on it.  There used to be a former mod over there that had been with them for 10 years that came in here and confirmed our suspicions.  I wouldn't assume that just because they had issues 'over there' that they are the problem.  

Say it ain't so.   A mod from the other site stalked you over here? 

Was it Sui? 

Shu Bang 

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It doesn't matter.  I've been posting here for 3 years and AFAIK know I have not been a problem to anyone.  Generally a bunch of nice people and I certainly don't want to get in the way of that.  So you get a win-win.  You close down P&R and get rid of the newcomers.  And in the process you got rid of me.

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14 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

There is no P & R anymore.  If this does get removed, then we can't even have a reasonable discussion about something that we don't agree with.

At this point the discussion seems to have moved from the reasonable to how many people are going to take their ball and go home.  It seems to me that it's a done deal and instead of discussion this is just bitching.

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Just now, maddmaxx said:

At this point the discussion seems to have moved from the reasonable to how many people are going to take their ball and go home.

I am not leaving at this point.   I do hope he reconsiders.  We need an avenue to post P & R.  It was behind closed doors.  Why create a whole new URL for it. That is like leaving. 

I posted a killer video today, so I am playing mt usual posting game.

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9 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

At this point the discussion seems to have moved from the reasonable to how many people are going to take their ball and go home.  It seems to me that it's a done deal and instead of discussion this is just bitching.

I am exercising my rights of protest against things I do not agree with. :ban:

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1 hour ago, speedysmed said:

phew!!!!  ....... after skimming thru this crap here.  No wonder I rather spend my time cycling than on forums like this one.  You can verify that on Strava.

Dude, according to the strava club, you get those miles in. kudos!

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9 hours ago, Road Runner said:

I don't see why anyone here feels they have a "right" to protest how this site is run.  This isn't a democracy.  We don't pay taxes here.  This is a forum set up by an individual who bought and paid for the software, who has spent countless hours running and moderating the site and who is gracious enough to allow us to be members and post here for free.  It is his site and he has the absolute right to limit what this forum will discuss as he sees fit.  He has provided us a wonderful playground where we have all had much fun for the last three years, yet some of you, somehow, think you have the right to dictate how the site is managed.  

Sorry if I offend, but the negative posts on here have been offending me all day long.  

The @Road Runner is a smart bird.  I will refrain from dropping any anvils on his head for at least one day.  :nodhead:

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8 hours ago, Road Runner said:

I don't see why anyone here feels they have a "right" to protest how this site is run.  This isn't a democracy.  We don't pay taxes here.  This is a forum set up by an individual who bought and paid for the software, who has spent countless hours running and moderating the site and who is gracious enough to allow us to be members and post here for free.  It is his site and he has the absolute right to limit what this forum will discuss as he sees fit.  He has provided us a wonderful playground where we have all had much fun for the last three years, yet some of you, somehow, think you have the right to dictate how the site is managed.  

Sorry if I offend, but the negative posts on here have been offending me all day long.  

This seems a bit unfair as no one is speaking of "rights" but are expressing concerns at what has occurred.......something you yourself have certainly done in the past. Again...we all know this is not a democracy...and nobody has said the contrary apart from SW and I posted saying that this could not be true given that he is the sole owner, and with that recognition goes the right to limit what the forum will discuss...again something that no-one has disagreed with. When you use such terms as " the right to dictate" in this way, not only is this misleading but it only serves to inflame the situation and that is unhelpful in my view.

This forum has an ethos which is admirable but I would have thought that this would embrace all  of its members including those that post in P&R.

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4 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

Hold on to that thought.

See above, I agree, the complaining has not done us any good.

Hang on a minute...up the thread you said that this was a Democracy and I disagreed and now you say the above...don't get it.

The important thing is that all concerned should put the good of the forum first.. but to be realistic people are going to be concerned about fairness and it's unrealistic to think they will not give voice to this. On both sides it's important how  this is voiced and that it be done in a way that is reasonable and does not serve to further inflame the situation.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 5 years later...
On 11/3/2016 at 9:20 PM, Road Runner said:

I don't see why anyone here feels they have a "right" to protest how this site is run.  This isn't a democracy.  We don't pay taxes here.  This is a forum set up by an individual who bought and paid for the software, who has spent countless hours running and moderating the site and who is gracious enough to allow us to be members and post here for free.  It is his site and he has the absolute right to limit what this forum will discuss as he sees fit.  He has provided us a wonderful playground where we have all had much fun for the last three years, yet some of you, somehow, think you have the right to dictate how the site is managed.  

Sorry if I offend, but the negative posts on here have been offending me all day long.  

We sure miss RR!  Especially @Square Wheels!

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The key thing is to stay away from political or religious arguments.  If I mention I attended Catholic School, I'll stick to something about a spelling bee, art, etc. and not what the nuns told us about other religions, etc.

Of course, I did mention one attempt at a religious quote where we wrote religious sayings in crayon on a piece of paper, coated the paper with cooking oil, then stuck the papers to the classroom windows to make "stained glass windows."

One kid wrote, by mistake, "Greater love hath no man than to lay down his wife for a friend."

That's more secular than religious, so I think that one's ok.

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