Plastic bags

[Dirtyhip]

1 minute ago, Goat Geddah said:

How can we sustain our relationship if you won't talk about things?  Maybe we should seek counseling?

HAHA

I am still doing my thing to the best of my abilities, but am losing energy for the exuberance of it all.  

I did ride my bike to work today.  I brought my lunch in glass containers that I will wash. I have chopped fresh organic veggies for lunch with tzatziki sauce and other delicious things.  After work, I will ride to my annual trail meeting where I will do my community work and then I will go home to my tiny house and go to sleep on my latex mattress.

Now, if you will excuse me, I noticed that someone has taken home all the free adams jars that I placed out in the hall.  I guess people like my idea of reusing those storage jars for their pot or whatever  the hell they put in them.

[The_Karen_Cooper_Incident]

1 hour ago, Square Wheels said:

I guess you are correct, I do support telling people what to do.  Like follow laws that are enacted by people who were elected by the masses.  If my state passes a law, yes I will follow it.

The Majority rules via the power of the government gun. 

Most so called liberals are not actually liberal.   They are fascist in nature. 

Shu EPG

 

[The_Karen_Cooper_Incident]

1 hour ago, Square Wheels said:

I guess you are correct, I do support telling people what to do.  Like follow laws that are enacted by people who were elected by the masses.  If my state passes a law, yes I will follow it.

The Majority rules via the power of the government gun. 

Most so called liberals are not actually liberal.   They are fascist in nature. 

Shu EPG

 

[Dirtyhip]

8 minutes ago, Nate said:

you know, not trying to be difficult or anything, but more to give you some hope...

I didn't like the idea of big areas of flotsam in the oceans....but in the open ocean, anything that is floating offers shelter for all sorts of species of fish. In a region of the open ocean that normally would be completely devoid of any life, a torn fishing net cut loose from a boat can create a small ecosystem that holds and supports literally thousands of fish. the large predator species then can feed on the smaller fish seeking shelter in the debris. the sea birds will congregate in the area, too.

the ocean is so vast, but large portions of it are as barren as a desert, so this debris can actually support the fish, birds, turtles, crabs....I'm just saying this so you don't feel so bad about that because it bothered me, too. I've seen the Pacific. Its a beautiful ocean

Plastic debris eaten by fish is a horrible thing.  Maybe we shouldn't eat fish anyway.  The sustainable fish idea is a farce.  Not many people like to eat the truly healthy fish like sardines or little fish like that anyway.

[Randomguy]

9 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Plastic debris eaten by fish is a horrible thing.  Maybe we shouldn't eat fish anyway.  The sustainable fish idea is a farce.  Not many people like to eat the truly healthy fish like sardines or little fish like that anyway.

Fish smell like death, I am happy I am allergic.

[Longjohn ★]

It's so much fun having Nate back.

[Longjohn ★]

13 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Fish smell like death, I am happy I am allergic.

That's not what I have heard they smell like.

[ChrisL]

25 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Plastic debris eaten by fish is a horrible thing.  Maybe we shouldn't eat fish anyway.  The sustainable fish idea is a farce.  Not many people like to eat the truly healthy fish like sardines or little fish like that anyway.

Hey now I may be one of the few who like them.  However my wife hates the smell when I get them....  

[Nate]

26 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Plastic debris eaten by fish is a horrible thing.  Maybe we shouldn't eat fish anyway.  The sustainable fish idea is a farce.  Not many people like to eat the truly healthy fish like sardines or little fish like that anyway.

for most of the world's poor, fish represent a very important source of meat

[Road Runner]

I like tuna.  It usually is packed in cans.  Some is now packed in plastic bags.  Seems ironic in lieu of this discussion.   

[Randomguy]

2 minutes ago, Nate said:

for most of the world's poor, fish represent a very important source of meat

Don't the poor know that they would be happier eating a nutritious diet of organic imported vegetables?

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

1 hour ago, Dirtyhip said:

 

It is my opinion that one day these huge garbage dumps will be reclaimed by working robots.  There is a ton of metal and other things that might be useful.

 

This is already happening, because I once saw a documentary (on the Science channel, I think) with those kind of robots.

 

[Kzoo]

Funny you should ask...

 

Bill to ban local plastic bag ordinances passes Michigan House

 

 

 

65shares

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/12/bill_to_ban_local_plastic_bag.html

 

LANSING, MI -- Local governments would not have the authority to ban the use of plastic grocery bags in their communities under a bill that passed the House of Representatives on Thursday.

Rep. Bill LaVoy, D-Monroe, and Rep. Jeff Irwin, D-Ann Arbor, spoke in opposition to the bill on the House floor.

"This is a bill that attacks local control," Irwin said.

Senate Bill 853, introduced by Sen. Jim Stamas, R-Midland, would prevent local communities from instituting bans or putting fees on containers like bags, cups, bottles or packaging. Stamas told the Senate Commerce Committee in April that such a law would create consistency, especially for businesses that operate branches across the state and would have to abide by multiple regulations.

[Ralphie ★]

You mean poop bags?

[FX_James_7.9]

i reuse the bags for lunches and for cleaning litter box

[Road Runner]

6 minutes ago, Ralph T. Mooseknuckle said:

You mean poop bags?

People in New Jersey poop in bags?   

[Ralphie ★]

6 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

People in New Jersey poop in bags?   

Dogs do, you twit!

[Road Runner]

Just now, Ralph T. Mooseknuckle said:

Dogs do, you twit!

Your dogs are highly trained.  

[Randomguy]

1 hour ago, Road Runner said:

People in New Jersey poop in bags?   

Indoor plumbing hasn't hit NJ yet, I am not sure they would know what to do with it yet.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

I think the questions that should be asked are:

Why do municipalities and other government agencies feel they need to pass legislation to require a fee for using plastic bags or to ban them outright?

Why not just let the people who don't want to use them simply decline to take them, or let people bring reusable bags of their own volition?

 

If the answer is "Because bags don't compose in the landfill, or they clutter up the environment." then that logic would dictate that municipalities should also regulate or ban all such items that don't decompose in a landfill, or clutter up the environment - not just plastic bags.

Of course if that logic is not followed or is disallowed, then logic would dictate that plastic bags should receive the same attention regarding fees or banning that other plastic items receive - items such as cell phones, plastic mailing envelopes, plastic bottles, etc., etc., and more etc.

[Nate]

20 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

Plastic debris eaten by fish is a horrible thing.  Maybe we shouldn't eat fish anyway.  The sustainable fish idea is a farce.  Not many people like to eat the truly healthy fish like sardines or little fish like that anyway.

they don't eat it, ...the debris provides shelter. It gives some animals a floating home.

 

[Dirtyhip]

Just now, Nate said:

they don't eat it, ...the debris provides shelter. It gives some animals a floating home.

 

Dude, maybe do some reading on the subject.  You are wrong. 

Birds eat it too.  It's in the food chain now.

[Nate]

3 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

I think the questions that should be asked are:

Why do municipalities and other government agencies feel they need to pass legislation to require a fee for using plastic bags or to ban them outright?

Why not just let the people who don't want to use them simply decline to take them, or let people bring reusable bags of their own volition?

 

If the answer is "Because bags don't compose in the landfill, or they clutter up the environment." then that logic would dictate that municipalities should also regulate or ban all such items that don't decompose in a landfill, or clutter up the environment - not just plastic bags.

Of course if that logic is not followed or is disallowed, then logic would dictate that plastic bags should receive the same attention regarding fees or banning that other plastic items receive - items such as cell phones, plastic mailing envelopes, plastic bottles, etc., etc., and more etc.

there you go...for once I think TK is onto something....

yes, why not ban ALL things that don't decompose right away? because we luvs us them cellphones, don't we?

plastic bags is like us taking off our shoes for TSA. Its nothing, it does nothing at all, but it is something they  can get passed then feel good about themselves for "changing the world"

[Longjohn ★]

10 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

I think the questions that should be asked are:

Why do municipalities and other government agencies feel they need to pass legislation to require a fee for using plastic bags or to ban them outright?

Why not just let the people who don't want to use them simply decline to take them, or let people bring reusable bags of their own volition?

 

If the answer is "Because bags don't compose in the landfill, or they clutter up the environment." then that logic would dictate that municipalities should also regulate or ban all such items that don't decompose in a landfill, or clutter up the environment - not just plastic bags.

Of course if that logic is not followed or is disallowed, then logic would dictate that plastic bags should receive the same attention regarding fees or banning that other plastic items receive - items such as cell phones, plastic mailing envelopes, plastic bottles, etc., etc., and more etc.

Here he goes, messing up a perfectly good argument with the voice of reason. 

[Nate]

Just now, Dirtyhip said:

Dude, maybe do some reading on the subject.  You are wrong. 

Birds eat it too.  It's in the food chain now.

first, dude...not all plastic products are made of the same chemical compound. No wild animal eats something that it cannot digest and turn back into the basic chemical building blocks that animal needs. We humans eat a lot of crazy molecules, too.

if they can eat some of it, then good for them. What is wrong with that? Plastics are made from organic molecules, meaning that they are based on carbon chains. If the animal can break down some plastics and get basic organic molecules from it to survice, that's fantastic, we're doing them a favor. I mean, sea gulls I swear could eat a jeep if you left it parked at the beach long enough

I'm just saying that you are worried about something that might actually be a windfall for the very animals you are worried about

[Nate]

1 minute ago, Longjohn said:

Here he goes, messing up a perfectly good argument with the voice of reason. 

yea, but he's too big a sissy to do anything about it

[KrAzY]

Our state allows them, but I refuse to use them. I have a few reusable bags that me company gave me over the year. If I forget my bag while shopping after work, I buy another one for $1. Whole Foods is awesome because they refuse to use plastic bags, and our paper bags that give to our guests are made from 100% recycles paper. 
I know a few other Whole Food stores actually charge 25cents per paper bag to make people consider using reusable bags. 

[Nate]

landfill operators have families too, you know

[KrAzY]

15 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

If the answer is "Because bags don't compose in the landfill, or they clutter up the environment." then that logic would dictate that municipalities should also regulate or ban all such items that don't decompose in a landfill, or clutter up the environment - not just plastic bags.

Of course if that logic is not followed or is disallowed, then logic would dictate that plastic bags should receive the same attention regarding fees or banning that other plastic items receive - items such as cell phones, plastic mailing envelopes, plastic bottles, etc., etc., and more etc.

Also look at the cost it takes to recycle the bags. you use two to three times the amount of fossil fuels to recycle a bag then it costs to make the bag in the first place. 
I say just go for reusable and stop wasting resources. 

I for one am still a little upset that our apartment does not give us the option to recycle. They just put everything into a large dumpster and take it to the landfill. I will atlas be able to recycle again in a few weeks when we can move into our house. 

[KrAzY]

4 minutes ago, Nate said:

landfill operators have families too, you know

I'm not knocking landfills... they are perfect places to hide bodies! 

[Square Wheels]

Sorry @Randomguy, I had to hide your post, it totally broke the page.

[Randomguy]

3 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Sorry @Randomguy, I had to hide your post, it totally broke the page.

Here is the linky where they tell how plastics are killing all the fish:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2016/12/world/midway-plastic-island/

[Nate]

14 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Here is the linky where they tell how plastics are killing all the fish:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2016/12/world/midway-plastic-island/

CNN is hardly a credible source.

before you post me a "linky" ask yourself "how many days have I spent on the Pacific ocean"  and then think real hard about what you want to "educate" me with. Me, a pacific fleet sailor who also fished the Gulf of Alaska on a boat with my dad for years.

[Longjohn ★]

1 hour ago, KrAzY said:

6 minutes ago, Nate said:

CNN is hardly a credible source.

before you post me a "linky" ask yourself "how many days have I spent on the Pacific ocean"  and then think real hard about what you want to "educate" me with. Me, a pacific fleet sailor who also fished the Gulf of Alaska on a boat with my dad for years.

I'm not knocking landfills... they are perfect places to hide bodies! 

My granddaughters put some plastic fish in our fish tank.  They don't swim around or anything they just lay on the bottom like they are dead.  Sometimes the real fish pick them up and move them around.

[Randomguy]

31 minutes ago, Nate said:

CNN is hardly a credible source.

before you post me a "linky" ask yourself "how many days have I spent on the Pacific ocean"  and then think real hard about what you want to "educate" me with. Me, a pacific fleet sailor who also fished the Gulf of Alaska on a boat with my dad for years.

Meh, I let the eggheads alarm me about the oceans.  The scienticians do a better job at the sciencey parts than I do, so I don't have to ask anything about how many days I went to the beach with my dog or somesuch.

I hate the Pacific ocean, btw.

[Randomguy]

http://www.popsci.com/your-seafood-might-contain-tiny-plastic-particles

[Nate]

18 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Meh, I let the eggheads alarm me about the oceans.  The scienticians do a better job at the sciencey parts than I do, so I don't have to ask anything about how many days I went to the beach with my dog or somesuch.

I hate the Pacific ocean, btw.

hey, man, when I started this happy talk about the debris in the ocean, I was just trying to help DH feel better. She seemed so despairing, so I just wanted to try and give her some hope, that's all I was trying to do

I'm not advocating floating garbage in the ocean, I'm just saying that sometimes what we think is bad, is actually working out pretty good for wild animals

[Randomguy]

5 minutes ago, Nate said:

hey, man, when I started this happy talk about the debris in the ocean, I was just trying to help DH feel better. She seemed so despairing, so I just wanted to try and give her some hope, that's all I was trying to do

I'm not advocating floating garbage in the ocean, I'm just saying that sometimes what we think is bad, is actually working out pretty good for wild animals

Well, maybe temporarily for some, but probably not for the vast majority of species.  I still hate the ocean, it is a wretched place.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

2 hours ago, Nate said:

yea, but he's too big a sissy to do anything about it

Provide to the Forum the facts that support your statement.

[Road Runner]

5 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

 I still hate the ocean, it is a wretched place.

I can't imagine the balls it must have taken to board one of those tiny ships back in the 15th and 16th centuries that was crossing the Atlantic.  That must have been pure hell.

[Nate]

1 minute ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

Provide to the Forum the facts that support your statement.

I submit this as People's Exhibit A

[Nate]

7 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Well, maybe temporarily for some, but probably not for the vast majority of species.  I still hate the ocean, it is a wretched place.

hey, just trying to say something hopeful

you want to fact check me and make DH feel bad all over again, that's up to you

 

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

4 minutes ago, Nate said:

I submit this as People's Exhibit A

I appreciate your embarrassing yourself, and thus saving me the trouble.

Not that it would have taken much effort or thought, mind you.

[Square Wheels]

I will not discuss warning points or other actions taken.

[Nate]

2 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

I appreciate your embarrassing yourself, and thus saving me the trouble.

Not that it would have taken much effort or thought, mind you.

...easy there tough guy

 

[Nate]

1 minute ago, Square Wheels said:

I will not discuss warning points or other actions taken.

there you go TK. mommy's here to look out for you

[Square Wheels]

Just now, Nate said:

there you go TK. mommy's here to look out for you

He hardly needs it, he's far more clever than I, and definitely you.  I'm starting to tire of your constant digs at me.  While it's generally accepted amongst friends, you've made it clear that we are not friends.  I will not put you on ignore as I monitor most of what happens here, but kindly ask that you stay on your side of the forum and I'll stay on mine.

[Randomguy]

Here is an example of what is good about the ocean:

[Road Runner]

I've been on a lot of ships in my life.  I never saw anything like that.  ^^^   

[Randomguy]

2 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

I've been on a lot of ships in my life.  I never saw anything like that.  ^^^   

Those shoes are very practical for boat usage.