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Plant Based


Zealot

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I just changed doctors again. The one I switched to when I retired left town a month after I switched to her. The new doc is the cousin of one of my triathlete friends and ran in the Disney marathon with her. I'm looking forward to talking with her, I've heard she spends time with her patients talking with them. I have a couple concerns about diet that contradict what I'm trying to do.

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In all seriousness, I've watched several members of my wife's family (who have incredible longevity genes) spend a big portion of their later years in the hospital or house bound because of poor dietary and lifestyle choices. It's not where I want to be.

We can all wind up in crappy places, but I don't think it hurts at all to try and not.

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I was raised vegetarian with animal things that don't kill the anima--- eggs and goats mik mainly and cheeses.  My mom has PArkinson's disease but the doctors are always amazed at how well she is doing and maintaining.  You may remember that she got thrown out of hospice services about 8 months ago..  The lifestyle she selected was based in religion but it has certainly helped.

We do our best to be plant based with a little seafood, cheese, and eggs.  What we try to do most is eat whole foods and avoid processed crap.

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I cold not go cheese free....I would give up chocolate before I give up cheese :(  I am going for moderation...That said I did a mess of veggies last week for some dish of some kind..and dang I started thinking about making a meal out of it...I try to have several meatless meals in a week...might try for a few more :nodhead:  but Vegan ...nope I just dont understand a veggie, egg and cheese scramble with no egg and no cheese :dontknow:

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I'm a ferm believer that diet is everything. Although Wo46 and I don't follow a vegetarian diet we did increase the amount of plant based food in our diet. 

The things that I try to avoid is prossed food crap. Some of the ingredients and possesses used in making prossed food will shock some people and most people just don't care about what they are putting in their pie hole. And the way the manufacturers hide the cemicals is another thing with all the drifrent names for the same thing.   There's 56 drifrent names for sugar alone and why is my salad covered with propolen glycol. 

When I started following more of a clean eating diet a lot of the aches and pains from several broken bones started to disappear and it became easier to keep the diabetes in control. 

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1 hour ago, BR46 said:

I'm a ferm believer that diet is everything. Although Wo46 and I don't follow a vegetarian diet we did increase the amount of plant based food in our diet. 

The things that I try to avoid is prossed food crap. Some of the ingredients and possesses used in making prossed food will shock some people and most people just don't care about what they are putting in their pie hole. And the way the manufacturers hide the cemicals is another thing with all the drifrent names for the same thing.   There's 56 drifrent names for sugar alone and why is my salad covered with propolen glycol. 

When I started following more of a clean eating diet a lot of the aches and pains from several broken bones started to disappear and it became easier to keep the diabetes in control. 

For most people with minor health issues, eating more green plants and vegetables vs. grains is beneficial, and far more helpful to give up the complete crap like sugar and wheat/grain than to give up meat.  When I am eating mostly things I chop up myself, I feel better.  Same if it is muscle meat vs. processed meat.  

I don't think people who demonize meat (but eat highly processed and completely unhealthy fake meats) make a lick of sense, I just haven't seen anything credible that even points to that.  Yeah, I know "CHINA STUDY, CHINA STUDY", and I look at the holes in it and think "What crap".  That isn't news (or shouldn't be) if you examine things, aren't alarmists, or think for yourself, lots of well-intentioned and malevolently-intentioned folks have foisted crap on us since there have been people that fall for the crap that is foisted upon them.

I have more respect for the vegetarians and vegans who eat the way they do due to concerns about how animals are treated and such (putting aside the reality that you need animal manure for the vast majority of fertilizer, even for organic produce).  It is preposterous to think that meat is unhealthy unless you eat the wrong kinds or far too much of it, it is too easy to blame a product for your inability or unwillingness to restrain yourselves.

Btw, I am sympathetic in that I have that same inability or unwillingness to restrain myself around sugary, fatty, and grainy things that I know are bad for me, but I am choosing not to blame meat for it.  

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1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

 It is preposterous to think that meat is unhealthy unless you eat the wrong kinds or far too much of it, it is too easy to blame a product for your inability or unwillingness to restrain yourselves.

When your daughter is fully developed at the age of 12 due to the hormones in the cows milk, you may reconsider.

For me, it's a little of everything.

I think most feed animals are treated deplorably, even those that claim to be free range.  I'm also not convinced I should be consuming the milk of another species.  As far as I know humans are the only ones who do that.

I try to each as much organic as I can find / afford.  Is it truly organic?  Doubtful.  Is it less chemical laden than other fruits and veggies, probably.

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4 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

When your daughter is fully developed at the age of 12 due to the hormones in the cows milk, you may reconsider.

For me, it's a little of everything.

I think most feed animals are treated deplorably, even those that claim to be free range.  I'm also not convinced I should be consuming the milk of another species.  As far as I know humans are the only ones who do that.

I try to each as much organic as I can find / afford.  Is it truly organic?  Doubtful.  Is it less chemical laden than other fruits and veggies, probably.

Damn?:whistle:

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52 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

When your daughter is fully developed at the age of 12 due to the hormones in the cows milk, you may reconsider.

In her case it will be because feRW just decided that she had to get off of dairy (based on not a damn thing) and onto soy milk, which is rich in protein, vitamins, minerals sugar and has proven to spike hormone levels.  Well, and the only meat RO eats is meatballs and hotdogs that feRW gets from the cheap pizza place across the street, so I am sure that isn't good for her.  I have talked to feRW about that, but she is rigid and unwilling to consider anything that spanks of rationality.

Milk may not be the best for you, but there are lots of species that eat things that no other does, or have the capability to do.  Lots of species do drink milk if it is put in a bowl for them.  Besides, it doesn't seem to impact most people negatively.  Same with grains, though, and I processed them just fine until the last  10-15 years or so, so there is that to consider.

Btw, almost all little girls are sprouted by 12 these days, it is pretty freaky.

Anyway, organic is best if you are cash-rich or can grow it yourself, but I would rather have regular produce and meat over organic grains at this point.  I think you will regret not having meat a few times a week after another few months, pretty much every vegan I have ever known feels great with it at first, then has health issues past 6-12 months.  Plus, you are a terrible pain in the ass at any social event and are pretty limited in terms of portability if you are a vegan.

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4 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Milk may not be the best for you, but there are lots of species that eat things that no other does, or have the capability to do.  Lots of species do drink milk if it is put in a bowl for them.  Besides, it doesn't seem to impact most people negatively.  Same with grains, though, and I processed them just fine until the last  10-15 years or so, so there is that to consider.

Again, I've only watched a dozen or so documentaries and haven't read any research papers (mostly because no one funds them), but I'm pretty convinced you are convinced milk is good for you due to the dairy council, politicians, and advertising.  If you had never heard of drinking milk from a cow and came to my house and I said, let's go milk that cow and drink it, you'd think I was a wacko.

4 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Btw, almost all little girls are sprouted by 12 these days, it is pretty freaky

And why do you think this is?

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6 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

 I'm pretty convinced you are convinced milk is good for you due to the dairy council, politicians, and advertising.  If you had never heard of drinking milk from a cow and came to my house and I said, let's go milk that cow and drink it, you'd think I was a wacko.

But I am not convinced that milk is good for you, only in the absence of data that says it is bad for you. If I don't have milk or dairy for a month or so, I feel no different when I start back up again.   Put it this way, if you were a freaky hippie in a freaky hippie family and grew up a sickly thing with no vitality, you would probably be convinced that meat was whacko if offered (until you had it for a while and felt better), same as if you grew up eating meat at all meals and someone expressed desire to eat veggies.  Complete whack jobs, all of them.

Hormones in everything, btw.  The whole food supply system is catering to corporate interests rather than health reasons.  The economy wants or needs cheapness for the consumer and profitability.  I can't afford organic now, most people can't.

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11 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Is suspect this is like politics / religion.  You are not likely to convince the other side they are wrong and you are right.

For me, I do what I think will help make me healthier, you should do the same.

To a degree.  No one is more fervent than a new convert, though, I would build room for some wiggle or backtracking into any belief system that requires utter unthinking rigidity.   Any system that relies heavily on unquestioning dogmatic adoption is populated by whackos or controlled by them, I have never seen any deviance from that norm.  The world would be so much more reasonable if people could look at new information as it comes in and reconcile it with what they thought they knew.

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Honestly @Square Wheels, I believe moderation is key in most things in life. I'm not vegan. I like meat. I like milk, (but I have digestive issues with it).  But I also believe most animal products are chock full of hormones and preservatives that are detrimental to us.  And like you I believe the hormones in today's commercial animal products are responsible for both early female development as well as the sheer size of many of our teenage males. Secondhand steroids I call it. 

If I go hunting this fall and bring home a deer or two, I will put up the meat to eat. And I love fish and cheese and eggs. 

Like you, we are trying to be as organic as possible. And I do believe that being plant based in the long run is a better health deal.

A good friend of mine, 61 now, has been a vegetarian since 1973. He's an amazing outdoorsman and has done very well with his choices.  

Again, death will claim us all. We make our choices and accept their consequences.  Keep on, keepin' on!

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Is suspect this is like politics / religion.  You are not likely to convince the other side they are wrong and you are right.

For me, I do what I think will help make me healthier, you should do the same.

Well spoken. 

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20 minutes ago, Zealot said:

Honestly @Square Wheels, I believe moderation is key in most things in life. I'm not vegan. I like meat. I like milk, (but I have digestive issues with it).  But I also believe most animal products are chock full of hormones and preservatives that are detrimental to us.  And like you I believe the hormones in today's commercial animal products are responsible for both early female development as well as the sheer size of many of our teenage males. Secondhand steroids I call it. 

If I go hunting this fall and bring home a deer or two, I will put up the meat to eat. And I love fish and cheese and eggs. 

Like you, we are trying to be as organic as possible. And I do believe that being plant based in the long run is a better health deal.

Actually, I agree with all of this.  Food supply, bad or misleading science, shortcuts, outright deceptions, all kinds of stuff to blame.  I always wonder if epg's complete avoidance of any vegetable other than french fries had something to do with his digestive issues and lack of time-trialing abilities.  I am sure my decades of ridiculously poor eating habits has a lot to do with mine, and has probably set the table for any number of times bombs that are ticking on, at, and around me.  If you have a genetic predisposition for something and eat in ways that exacerbates this, it is a wonder we live past our 20's at all.

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1 minute ago, Chris... said:

grass fed is the closest I get to plant based

Remember that plant products go into most processed animal diets.  Where you and I live, it is not possible to graze animals on green pastures year around.  They have to be fed during the dormant months.  So do you purchase all your meat during the autumn, before a killing frost to maintain the grass fed criteria? All of our purchased feed is grass, legume, and grain based.  We do not knowingly feed hormones, but we would not think of selling our products as organically grown.

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56 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

To a degree.  No one is more fervent than a new convert. The world would be so much more reasonable if people could look at new information as it comes in and reconcile it with what they thought they knew.

FIFY and Amen!!  This is true for religion, money matters, etc.

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I'm going to go with Zealot, and say "everything in moderation" is key.

Humans have, first off, been drinking milk for thousands of years.  Cows milk, goats milk, you name it, going back to probably at least the Hammurabic code.  If one wants to argue about hormones in milk or meat, then let's argue about the hormones or antibiotics, rather than arguing about the milk where they are not naturally present.  And then let's try to find our milk and meat from places where animals aren't given those things.

Our bodies are meant to process many types of food.  I'm not saying this from any political perspective, I'm saying it from a science perspective (see below); there's a reason that we have teeth designed both for cutting meat (incisors and canines) and for ensuring we can process plant-based matter (molars). This is evidence that we are omnivores, not solely herbivores or carnivores.

I'm not against anyone cutting meat out of their diet, etc. but let's keep with solid science and empirically proven things here, and when we look at food as crappy, let's look at it from the balanced viewpoint.  Look at if a food is bad because of the additives or preservatives, or because it's high in certain types of fat or sugars that we shouldn't have much of, and look at it from the idea that a balance of fruits, vegetables, meat, dairy, and grains should all come together in balanced parts to make up a healthy diet.  And let's make sure that we aren't parroting something that looks good on the Internet as opposed to doing good homework.

the-eatinghabitsofanimalspptteeth-8-638.

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On 5/28/2017 at 0:37 PM, Honey Badger said:

I'm going to go with Zealot, and say "everything in moderation" is key.

Humans have, first off, been drinking milk for thousands of years.  Cows milk, goats milk, you name it, going back to probably at least the Hammurabic code.  If one wants to argue about hormones in milk or meat, then let's argue about the hormones or antibiotics, rather than arguing about the milk where they are not naturally present.  And then let's try to find our milk and meat from places where animals aren't given those things.

Our bodies are meant to process many types of food.  I'm not saying this from any political perspective, I'm saying it from a science perspective (see below); there's a reason that we have teeth designed both for cutting meat (incisors and canines) and for ensuring we can process plant-based matter (molars). This is evidence that we are omnivores, not solely herbivores or carnivores.

I'm not against anyone cutting meat out of their diet, etc. but let's keep with solid science and empirically proven things here, and when we look at food as crappy, let's look at it from the balanced viewpoint.  Look at if a food is bad because of the additives or preservatives, or because it's high in certain types of fat or sugars that we shouldn't have much of, and look at it from the idea that a balance of fruits, vegetables, meat, dairy, and grains should all come together in balanced parts to make up a healthy diet.  And let's make sure that we aren't parroting something that looks good on the Internet as opposed to doing good homework.

the-eatinghabitsofanimalspptteeth-8-638.

Best post in this thread, right above.

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