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jsharr

An ebike question for DH and others

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After DH cut ties with IMBA for their endorsing E bikes I began to wonder who was making e mountain bikes.

Turns out Specialized, Trek, Giant, Scott, Cannondale all make E bikes.  Shimano makes motors.  Sram makes an E mtb component group.  

Where does the cutting ties start and stop?  

Is it even possible to ride a quality mountain bike made from components from manufacturers who are anti e bike ?

 

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ebikes drive me nuts.  For years we spent time fighting for access after motorized dirt bikes tore up trails and causing access to be closed.  Now we are becoming them and fear it's going to lead to trail access being closed.  A lot of the access was granted with the stipulation of no motorized vehicles.

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38 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

Exercise needs to be a component of the future before we all turn into tree sloths. Are ebikes like mopeds, where you can pedal?  If so, they might be excellent car replacements. 

 

12 minutes ago, Indy said:

ebikes drive me nuts.  For years we spent time fighting for access after motorized dirt bikes tore up trails and causing access to be closed.  Now we are becoming them and fear it's going to lead to trail access being closed.  A lot of the access was granted with the stipulation of no motorized vehicles.

These two points seem to be reasons for and against them.  I see value in them as a car replacement to be used on city streets. However I dont want to see them on our trails.

It will be interesting to see if they stick or are the latest "thing" in the industry.

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Just now, ChrisL said:

 

These two points seem to be reasons for and against them.  I see value in them as a car replacement to be used on city streets. However I dont want to see them on our trails.

It will be interesting to see if they stick or are the latest "thing" in the industry.

Fat bike versions seem to be popular.  Freaking LBS owner (I will not walk in that shop again) really promotes them as a way to get out on the trails in any weather and the ebike part makes it easy.  Ugh.  :(

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1 hour ago, jsharr said:

After DH cut ties with IMBA for their endorsing E bikes I began to wonder who was making e mountain bikes.

Turns out Specialized, Trek, Giant, Scott, Cannondale all make E bikes.  Shimano makes motors.  Sram makes an E mtb component group.  

Where does the cutting ties start and stop?  

Is it even possible to ride a quality mountain bike made from components from manufacturers who are anti e bike ?

 

2 completely different things. 

Manufacturers are just looking to make a profit, making what sells.  Refusing to buy because someone makes e-bikes is like refusing to buy a MTB from a company that also makes road bikes.  Some might do that, but not very many, and IMO that would be different than DHs tiff with IMBA.

IMBA is a mountain bike advocacy group.  Them advocating for e-bikes is the equivalent of them advocating for road bikes, and refusing to advocate for trails/conditions that are not accessible to road bikes.  By including advocacy for e-bikes in their mission, they open the door for every adversary to shut mountain bikes out on the basis that they are motorized transport, since e-bikes are motorized and fall under the umbrella of "mountain bikes".  Many/most believe that the only way for MTBs to win/keep rightful access to areas that only allow non-motorized transport is to be clear that e-bikes are not mountiain bikes and are not covered under the advocacy efforts of that organization.  Fot those, e-bikes threaten access for ALL 2 wheeled users.

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15 minutes ago, Indy said:

Fat bike versions seem to be popular.  Freaking LBS owner (I will not walk in that shop again) really promotes them as a way to get out on the trails in any weather and the ebike part makes it easy.  Ugh.  :(

OK here's a wrinkle.... What if the LBS owner relies on ebike sales to stay afloat?  Seems it could be a catch 22 in what is selling now could also hurt sales with his more traditional customers.

I'm not as passionate about the issue as some of you but I wouldn't avoid a shop because they were pushing them.

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3 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

OK here's a wrinkle.... What if the LBS owner relies on ebike sales to stay afloat?  Seems it could be a catch 22 in what is selling now could also hurt sales with his more traditional customers.

I'm not as passionate about the issue as some of you but I wouldn't avoid a shop because they were pushing them.

If that owner is reliying on ebike sales, he'd might as well hang up the closed permanently sign.

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1 hour ago, jsharr said:

 

Is it even possible to ride a quality mountain bike made from components from manufacturers who are anti e bike ?

 

Probably have to be a SS with a Fox fork and Hayes brakes.

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Just now, smudge said:

If that owner is reliying on ebike sales, he'd might as well hang up the closed permanently sign.

Not true. We have a shop in town that rents and sells e-bikes only.

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1 minute ago, smudge said:

Ok. But keep them off the trails.

Not sure how the two are related. Technically they are banned from trails here as well as the bike paths. I've never seen one on the trails, but I have on the bike paths and it is not enforced. They would be allowed on forest service roads.

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27 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

 

These two points seem to be reasons for and against them.  I see value in them as a car replacement to be used on city streets. However I dont want to see them on our trails.

It will be interesting to see if they stick or are the latest "thing" in the industry.

I would have no problem if at sometime in the future this 71+ year old body had a bit of assist climbing hills on my trails.  Ebikes are still like bikes if you want them to be.  You pedal, you coast and sometimes the stoker kicks in and helps you pedal for a bit.

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E-bikes are everywhere around here. But then so are Teslas and Range Rovers. Mostly as commuters or cargo bikes. I think all five bike shops in town shops sell them, one exclusively. I've never seen one on a mt bike trail. I did ride a Cannondale that my friend bought. He's in his 70s and could not get up hills any longer. This kept him on a bike. It is an assist bike, you have to pedal for the motor to kick in. It is not a mt bike. I see a guy riding a e-cargo bike around town. I've never seen him pedal. My old neighbor had an e-fatbike. I don't know if he took it on the trails or not.

 

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17 minutes ago, dennis said:

E-bikes are everywhere around here. But then so are Teslas and Range Rovers. Mostly as commuters or cargo bikes. I think all five bike shops in town shops sell them, one exclusively. I've never seen one on a mt bike trail. I did ride a Cannondale that my friend bought. He's in his 70s and could not get up hills any longer. This kept him on a bike. It is an assist bike, you have to pedal for the motor to kick in. It is not a mt bike. I see a guy riding a e-cargo bike around town. I've never seen him pedal. My old neighbor had an e-fatbike. I don't know if he took it on the trails or not.

 

So we haven't really defined which ebikes are good and which are bad then?

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2 hours ago, ChrisL said:

OK here's a wrinkle.... What if the LBS owner relies on ebike sales to stay afloat?  Seems it could be a catch 22 in what is selling now could also hurt sales with his more traditional customers.

I'm not as passionate about the issue as some of you but I wouldn't avoid a shop because they were pushing them.

I've putting in years building and maintaining trails.  So hard not to be a little more patient about the subject.  The shop is primarily I high end road bike shop.

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1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

So we haven't really defined which ebikes are good and which are bad then?

The ones I don't like. Those are the bad ones. The ones I think a cool are the good ones. This isn't too tough :angry:

Tom

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I guess my point is that if one is anti e bikes on trails, where does the protest stop and start?  If the e bikes were solely built to be path bikes, or street bikes and not mountian bikes, then it would not be much of an issue, as they would not be fun or useful to ride offroad.  But when every major player in the MTB segment is building these e bike version of serious mountain bikes, then should not the consumer who does not want e bikes on the trails also cut off their support of the manufacturers as well?

 

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54 minutes ago, jsharr said:

I guess my point is that if one is anti e bikes on trails, where does the protest stop and start?  If the e bikes were solely built to be path bikes, or street bikes and not mountian bikes, then it would not be much of an issue, as they would not be fun or useful to ride offroad.  But when every major player in the MTB segment is building these e bike version of serious mountain bikes, then should not the consumer who does not want e bikes on the trails also cut off their support of the manufacturers as well?

 

In this case, it starts and ends with IMBA. All of the big players are on board with the e-bikes. Small manufacturers are not making them, but Sram and Shimano are making parts. 

IMBA is looking to have a say. A place at the table of the e-bike discussion and decision process. e-bikes are here to stay. The question now is trail access.

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I don't get the hate on e-bikes. The e-mountain bikes I've seen are the Turbo Levo from Specialized. It's basically a full suspension mountain bike with pedal assist. The people buying and riding them aren't, for the most part, noobs who shouldn't be on mountain bike trails but are older riders, who for whatever reason, no longer have the stamina to ride the trails they once did while they were younger and fitter. The bikes generally start around $5,000 so they're not entry level machines. The hybrids that we sell are generally to commuters who use them to get to work and save, on average, an hour of commuting time per day. 

That's not to say I don't hate the guy on the trail with his Elf trike. He takes up the whole lane and goes faster than he should for the trail conditions. Fuck that guy.

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4 minutes ago, Old#7 said:

I don't get the hate on e-bikes. The e-mountain bikes I've seen are the Turbo Levo from Specialized. It's basically a full suspension mountain bike with pedal assist. The people buying and riding them aren't, for the most part, noobs who shouldn't be on mountain bike trails but are older riders, who for whatever reason, no longer have the stamina to ride the trails they once did while they were younger and fitter. The bikes generally start around $5,000 so they're not entry level machines. The hybrids that we sell are generally to commuters who use them to get to work and save, on average, an hour of commuting time per day. 

That's not to say I don't hate the guy on the trail with his Elf trike. He takes up the whole lane and goes faster than he should for the trail conditions. Fuck that guy.

Tossing E Trikes into the fray!  Nicely played!  everyone hates trikes and bents (Except for kirby and her trike, we love them both)

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10 minutes ago, Old#7 said:

 

That's not to say I don't hate the guy on the trail with his Elf trike. He takes up the whole lane and goes faster than he should for the trail conditions. Fuck that guy.

My wife BEOTCHES (justifiably) every time that guy rides drives by. Pretty silent, too. And way too big for the trail.  We also have a couple of the full fairing recumbents that bother me, but at least those are human powered.  

I'm still fine as long as their percentages are single digit, but they are being adopted at a pretty quick pace so far. I will likely be calling for enforcement of the no motorized vehicles soon, but that includes the electric skateboards and scooters that I am seeing and that occasional Segway who parks at the Metro in the bike parking.

Tom

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