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Razors Edge

Six Bolt vs Center Lock?

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For road bikes (and likely MTB & cross), does one standard matter? Or does it have no impact on compatibility with brake systems? I assume it just makes your purchase the correct rotors for the wheels, but is that all it matters for or is there some other compatibility issue?

I would guess the bigger looming road disc issue is thru-axle compatibility?

Tom

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As far as I know, the top of the line Shimano rotors, with all of their (claimed) benefits are only available in the center lock type. This means you may have to use downgraded rotors to fit a replacement wheel with 6 bolt.

 As far as which is the better mounting system, the only advantage I can come up with for one over the other is that with center lock, an adapter will allow 6 bolt mounting. Adapting a 6 bolt to center lock is physically impossible.

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1 hour ago, Rattlecan said:

As far as which is the better mounting system, the only advantage I can come up with for one over the other is that with center lock, an adapter will allow 6 bolt mounting. Adapting a 6 bolt to center lock is physically impossible.

Correct.  Center lock does have the option of using an adapter to fit 6-bolt rotors, so getting center lock rims lets you use either (granted the adapter costs as much as rotors, so if you're on a budget, get the right wheels for the rotors you have/will get.)

As far as the thru axle vs QR, I'm not sure what that has to do with disc brakes.  MTBs came with discs way before thru axles.  Neither center lock or 6 bolt requires one or the other.  Getting brand new, high end disc hubs that are QR can sometimes be a challenge, I'm sure, but most hubs have available adapters for the different TA "standards" and QR.

I like TA better.  QR tends be finicky and it's pretty easy to get it too tight, too loose, off center, etc.  TA is always centered, and you usually tighten it to the same spot every time; no guess work.

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1 hour ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

Correct.  Center lock does have the option of using an adapter to fit 6-bolt rotors, so getting center lock rims lets you use either (granted the adapter costs as much as rotors, so if you're on a budget, get the right wheels for the rotors you have/will get.)

As far as the thru axle vs QR, I'm not sure what that has to do with disc brakes.  MTBs came with discs way before thru axles.  Neither center lock or 6 bolt requires one or the other.  Getting brand new, high end disc hubs that are QR can sometimes be a challenge, I'm sure, but most hubs have available adapters for the different TA "standards" and QR.

I like TA better.  QR tends be finicky and it's pretty easy to get it too tight, too loose, off center, etc.  TA is always centered, and you usually tighten it to the same spot every time; no guess work.

He covers it pretty well in the video. Simply put, disc brakes and thru-axles are the future for many "road" bikes live gravel bikes or adventure bikes. With Black Friday and Cyber Monday, I have seen a LOT of wheels and bikes on sale, and since my likely next bike will have disc brakes, I am first interested in the difference in the two standards, and secondly, not interested in buying a bike that will be soon superseded by a new "standard" that lasts for many years. In other words, if center lock and/or thru-axle are the bee knees and likely to be standard equipment in 2018 and beyond, I'd rather wait for that to roll into showrooms and get something I don't feel a need to upgrade any time soon.

Tom

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13 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

He covers it pretty well in the video. Simply put, disc brakes and thru-axles are the future for many "road" bikes live gravel bikes or adventure bikes. With Black Friday and Cyber Monday, I have seen a LOT of wheels and bikes on sale, and since my likely next bike will have disc brakes, I am first interested in the difference in the two standards, and secondly, not interested in buying a bike that will be soon superseded by a new "standard" that lasts for many years. In other words, if center lock and/or thru-axle are the bee knees and likely to be standard equipment in 2018 and beyond, I'd rather wait for that to roll into showrooms and get something I don't feel a need to upgrade any time soon.

Tom

Admittedly, I did not watch the video and just went off my knowledge of the subject.  I'm at work so reading is easier than watching/listening.

This question from you made it seem that TA vs QR had something to do with disc brakes...

Quote

I would guess the bigger looming road disc issue is thru-axle compatibility?

Anyway...

I get what you are saying about not wanting to get the wrong frame that won't fit the newest standards.  IMO, that's going to happen no matter what.  The standard for 2 or 3 years now probably hasn't hit the stores yet.   In MTBs, it's all TA now, but they change the diameter of the TA, or the drop out spacing, all the time.  If it's not that, it's wheel/tire size, or headset type, or BB type.  Much better to take the "use it lightly and trade it in for the next best thing in a year" method that DH uses.  That way your not replacing wheelsets after you've worn out the OEs (or bearings, forks, cranks, etc.)  Just get a complete new bike with all the latest "standards".

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On 11/29/2017 at 12:32 PM, Rattlecan said:

As far as I know, the top of the line Shimano rotors, with all of their (claimed) benefits are only available in the center lock type. This means you may have to use downgraded rotors to fit a replacement wheel with 6 bolt.

 As far as which is the better mounting system, the only advantage I can come up with for one over the other is that with center lock, an adapter will allow 6 bolt mounting. Adapting a 6 bolt to center lock is physically impossible.

I am using centerlok Shimano wheels on my hybrid.  The first thing I bought was a set of adapters so I could swing from either side of the plate as I had several sets of rotors lying around from the MTB days.  I am using center lock rotors however.  They seem to run just fine and they are much easier to mount than having to torque 6 bolts carefully.

One note:  Be careful of rotor diameter as the same sized rotor from different brands may not be the same size.  If this happens you may be shimming the caliper to get the pads where you want them..........or it could be worse.  I've had to do a bit of "modifying" to get Shimano rotors to work well with Avid mechanical calipers.

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On 11/29/2017 at 1:15 PM, Razors Edge said:

He covers it pretty well in the video. Simply put, disc brakes and thru-axles are the future for many "road" bikes live gravel bikes or adventure bikes. With Black Friday and Cyber Monday, I have seen a LOT of wheels and bikes on sale, and since my likely next bike will have disc brakes, I am first interested in the difference in the two standards, and secondly, not interested in buying a bike that will be soon superseded by a new "standard" that lasts for many years. In other words, if center lock and/or thru-axle are the bee knees and likely to be standard equipment in 2018 and beyond, I'd rather wait for that to roll into showrooms and get something I don't feel a need to upgrade any time soon.

Tom

As others have alluded to I think the real issue is TA standards.  I recently upgraded wheels on my Mtn bike and about 70% of the hub options were 6 bolt. I wanted centerlock as I already had Shimano hubs with centerlock rotors and didn't want to buy new rotors too. 

But the bigger issue was more about TA and spacing as as long as i found the hub that fit with the proper axle standard either centerlock or 6 bolt would work with my existing brakes. I was just trying to save some $$$ which did limit my hub options.

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Thanks for clearing some of this mess up for me.  My goal is to not have headaches down the line if trying to upgrade wheels.  So, the Crossrip, still in the running, has the centerlock brakes and look like Thru-axle to me. Maybe the only challenge would be if the rear spacing gets bumped up in the near future?

CrossRip3_17029_A_Alt5.thumb.jpg.0f7eee5f1f76246855fbc7c4e1f01368.jpg

Tom

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3 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Thanks for clearing some of this mess up for me.  My goal is to not have headaches down the line if trying to upgrade wheels.  So, the Crossrip, still in the running, has the centerlock brakes and look like Thru-axle to me. Maybe the only challenge would be if the rear spacing gets bumped up in the near future?

CrossRip3_17029_A_Alt5.thumb.jpg.0f7eee5f1f76246855fbc7c4e1f01368.jpg

Tom

To me, that looks like a QR.

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7 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Thanks for clearing some of this mess up for me.  My goal is to not have headaches down the line if trying to upgrade wheels.  So, the Crossrip, still in the running, has the centerlock brakes and look like Thru-axle to me. Maybe the only challenge would be if the rear spacing gets bumped up in the near future?

CrossRip3_17029_A_Alt5.thumb.jpg.0f7eee5f1f76246855fbc7c4e1f01368.jpg

Tom

That's not a thru axle. If it was, the rotor lock ring would be the type that takes a bottom bracket tool rather than a cassette tool. Also, quite clear that the frame has dropouts.

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14 hours ago, Rattlecan said:

That's not a thru axle. If it was, the rotor lock ring would be the type that takes a bottom bracket tool rather than a cassette tool. Also, quite clear that the frame has dropouts.

Aw shitsky! See, once again, more info!  Thanks!

Tom

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7 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Gotta say, though, I don't see a QR lever. Is that normal?

CrossRip3_17029_A_Alt2.thumb.jpg.b792a102ecb3fc2ce46955b7242e4de3.jpg

CrossRip3_17029_A_Alt4.thumb.jpg.c123f01a886b58c2b65bee45e26f2e63.jpg

Tom

That is weird.  It's like they swapped the skewer around to avoid having the QR lever in the shot  Either way, both shots of the front and rear, the frame/fork appear to have dropouts with gaps in them like a QR skewer would need.

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8 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Gotta say, though, I don't see a QR lever. Is that normal?

CrossRip3_17029_A_Alt2.thumb.jpg.b792a102ecb3fc2ce46955b7242e4de3.jpg

CrossRip3_17029_A_Alt4.thumb.jpg.c123f01a886b58c2b65bee45e26f2e63.jpg

Tom

Security type skewer that is tightened with a key instead of a lever. I have some like that with a pentagon key to fit. I can't see for sure, but I think that may be what you are looking at here.

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On 12/4/2017 at 9:39 AM, Razors Edge said:

Thanks for clearing some of this mess up for me.  My goal is to not have headaches down the line if trying to upgrade wheels.  So, the Crossrip, still in the running, has the centerlock brakes and look like Thru-axle to me. Maybe the only challenge would be if the rear spacing gets bumped up in the near future?

CrossRip3_17029_A_Alt5.thumb.jpg.0f7eee5f1f76246855fbc7c4e1f01368.jpg

Tom

I would just come to grips with the fact that if you get the crossrip and if you upgrade wheels finding good quality hubs to build from will be an issue.  It looks like both wheels are QR which the industry is moving away from for disc bikes.

Back to my wheel upgrade, part of the challenge was finding a QR rear hub as very few high end hub makers make them with that standard anymore.  The front hub was fairly standard but the rear is the older QR standard.  I'm gonna guess if you want to upgrade those wheels you will have the same challenge I did.

I'll also add that the rear wheel comes slightly askew causing brake rub on about 20% of my rides. I'm assuming braking forces cause this which a TA will prevent.

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3 hours ago, ChrisL said:

I would just come to grips with the fact that if you get the crossrip and if you upgrade wheels finding good quality hubs to build from will be an issue.  It looks like both wheels are QR which the industry is moving away from for disc bikes.

Back to my wheel upgrade, part of the challenge was finding a QR rear hub as very few high end hub makers make them with that standard anymore.  The front hub was fairly standard but the rear is the older QR standard.  I'm gonna guess if you want to upgrade those wheels you will have the same challenge I did.

I'll also add that the rear wheel comes slightly askew causing brake rub on about 20% of my rides. I'm assuming braking forces cause this which a TA will prevent.

Some hubs have conversion kits to convert between thru axle or QR. Velocity is one that comes to mind. I believe DT Swiss hubs can be converted too.

Road and ATB dropout spacing is the same for disc brake applications, (excepting Boost) So ATB hubs are basically interchangeable for road discs.

http://www.velocityusa.com/product/hubs/mountain-disc-rear-hub

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