Olympic observations

[Kzoo]

Just now, jsharr said:

I second that. 

@jsharr please reread my post above.  I feel you left with the impression that I cared what you thought.  That would be erroneous of you.

 

But I did like the cartoon.  I might use that against you sometime. 

[jsharr ★]

1 minute ago, Kzoo said:

@jsharr please reread my post above.  I feel you left with the impression that I cared what you thought.  That would be erroneous of you.

 

But I did like the cartoon.  I might use that against you sometime. 

[MickinMD ★]

On 2/13/2018 at 5:00 PM, Ltdskilz said:

FWIW, Mick, the Shani Davis dustup was about who was going to carry the flag representing the US in the Olympics Opening Ceremony, which is something every country participating does.

But I also did see where a Russian luge guy (luger?) who wasn't going to be able to go to the Olympics due to the doping ban sent his sled to an American to see if it would work for him. It was too small. But a great gesture among sportsmen.

Sorry, I should have been clearer.  When I wrote I was a little uncomfortable about waving the flag, I meant the excessive stuff.  The flag being carried in is traditional, every country does it, and it's great. I was thrilled to see a documentary of the 1936 Berlin Olympics where Hitler went into a rage when the USA did NOT dip the flag in salute to him as other nations were doing.

I also often get a little teared-up when they play the Star Spangled Banner when an American wins.

I travel overseas and have had frank discussions with foreigners in Chinese bars, Turkish coffeehouses, French cafes, Egyptian and other cruise ships, etc. and am dismayed at how badly the reputation of the American people has sunk in the 2000's.  Though many think we're great, even more think we are a "high-tech, low-culture" people.  I don't think our rah-rah behavior at sports events helps, especially when we don't see it much from, for example, even the Europeans who have a horrific reputation for bad behavior at soccer matches.

[groupw]

One thing that stands out to me is how gear dependent the Winter Games are. If you don’t have a particular sled, skis, skate blades, etc, you are likely not competing for a medal. 

I have a friend who is on the USA development squad for the skeleton. She is in her rookie season. Currently she is using a starter sled just to get the feel for the sport and the courses. Something she can beat up and learn on. 

I asked her the difference between what she is using and an elite sled. She said they cost around $8000-12000 dollars and once you learn to control the additional speed they are capable of, are potentially 3 seconds faster. 

I understand learning the sport and working your way up. But it seems to me, if you are in the Olympics, it should be more focus on the athletes than the equipment they use. Medal contention should not be based on whether you can have the good stuff or not. 

[maddmaxx ★]

TDF bikes.................................................

[maddmaxx ★]

Pole vaulter poles.....................................

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[groupw]

2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

TDF bikes.................................................

 

2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

Pole vaulter poles.....................................

Carbon FX Vaulting Pole   Designed for the advanced vaulter, the Pacer CarbonFX pole incorporates the latest carbon material to produce the world's lightest and strongest vaulting pole. Lighter poles equal faster runway speeds. Put more speed in your vault today! THE LIGHTEST CARRY WEIGHT YOU HAVE TO FEEL THE DIFFERENCE TO ... From: $750.00 PRODUCT DETAILS

Those were the 2 summer events that came to mind for me, too. But I believe there is a requirement that the poles be available to all competitors. I think that came about when they first started hitting the 17 ft mark. 

I would be curious how a TDF bike compares to a consumer bike with comparably labeled gear. Do you think the same rider could see a 3 second advantage over a 2 Mile course? Not trying to argue. Just curious. 

 

[maddmaxx ★]

6 hours ago, groupw said:

 

Those were the 2 summer events that came to mind for me, too. But I believe there is a requirement that the poles be available to all competitors. I think that came about when they first started hitting the 17 ft mark. 

I would be curious how a TDF bike compares to a consumer bike with comparably labeled gear. Do you think the same rider could see a 3 second advantage over a 2 Mile course? Not trying to argue. Just curious. 

 

You can probably buy a TDF bike. (most likely one from the past season)  Because of the rules you might even be able to buy a better bike (better being a subjective term).  What you probably can't get is the mechanic and the daily details that go into the bike every day before it arrives at the starting line.  Will it make a 3 second difference over a two mile course?  Yes.  Otherwise why would teams put out as much as 20,000 each for multiple bikes per rider.

 

[Chris...]

Watching some hockey this morning. The South Korean team has six players from Canada. 

[Razors Edge ★]

10 hours ago, groupw said:

Those were the 2 summer events that came to mind for me, too. But I believe there is a requirement that the poles be available to all competitors. I think that came about when they first started hitting the 17 ft mark. 

I would be curious how a TDF bike compares to a consumer bike with comparably labeled gear. Do you think the same rider could see a 3 second advantage over a 2 Mile course? Not trying to argue. Just curious. 

A 1% gain is relatively significant. I'd like to think several variables could create that 1% difference - some gear, many training.  A combination of the two is a winning combination, so that's why wind-tunnels are so effective in some sports. Tweaking a rider's position to perfect the balance between power, sustainability, fatigue, and comfort within the narrow parameters of optimal placement on the bike is a long term process that nets way more than 3 secs over 2 miles.  

Tom

[Wilbur ★]

1 hour ago, Chris... said:

Watching some hockey this morning. The South Korean team has six players from Canada. 

..and fans that issue death threats to competing athletes.  

[groupw]

I think you all are making my case for me. No one said You had to have a Pinarello bike to be atop the TDF. I’m pretty sure Froome could ride a comparably equipped and mechaniced Specialized, Cannondale, Giant or whatever and not see any significant drop-off in performance. The fact they would let me buy one of the bikes after the TDF only adds to the accessibility argument.

What I’m talking about is when I was watching practice for one of the downhill skiing events. One of the better Americans made a decent pass. One of the commentators wondered how we would do if he was “allowed” to have a set of the better skis. Reminded me of the have and have-not situation with bobsleds.

 

[pedalphile]

I don't know if you've heard this yet but the Brits have been doing leading times in practice for the Skeleton and other teams are complaining their skin suits are cheaty. As it goes, they are the same cheaty material the dominant Brit track riders wear in the Olympic velodrome. The suits have all been vetted and passed by the authorities btw.

[Wilbur ★]

28 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

I don't know if you've heard this yet but the Brits have been doing leading times in practice for the Skeleton and other teams are complaining their skin suits are cheaty. As it goes, they are the same cheaty material the dominant Brit track riders wear in the Olympic velodrome. The suits have all been vetted and passed by the authorities btw.

Everyone knows Brits suck at everything so if they are winning, the only logical conclusion is, they are cheating.  Kinda like the Patriots.  

[Square Wheels]

I have not observed any of the Olympics yet, have I missed anything?

[Wilbur ★]

4 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

I have not observed any of the Olympics yet, have I missed anything?

Yes

[Square Wheels]

1 minute ago, Wilbur said:

Yes

Thanks!

[Wilbur ★]

1 minute ago, Square Wheels said:

Thanks!

I am here to please.  Let me know if I can again. 

[pedalphile]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

Everyone knows Brits suck at everything so if they are winning, the only logical conclusion is, they are cheating.  Kinda like the Patriots.  

I think you’re forgetting the famous and world renowned British sense of fair play, my cheeky colonial cousin.

[Kzoo]

22 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

I think you’re forgetting the famous and world renowned British sense of fair play, my cheeky colonial cousin.

Yeah, we first experienced that prior to our War for Independence.  Why we were at all upset still puzzles me.  I think Ralph was around those parts then.  I should ask him.

[pedalphile]

Bizarre. The Bronze medal Russian bloke from mixed curling has failed a dope test. Can anyone explain to me how dope can help curling performance?

[Wilbur ★]

2 hours ago, pedalphile said:

Bizarre. The Bronze medal Russian bloke from mixed curling has failed a dope test. Can anyone explain to me how dope can help curling performance?

Depends on the dope.  Curling has become a fitness sport where sweeping is involved.  Stronger men can move a rock a long way with sweeping strength.  Drugs such as beta blockers keep heart rate and stress response in check which helps maintain the fine controls of rock handling. 

[Dchiefransom]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:15 PM, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

One has to wonder how athletes can excel at the rifle shooting part of the biathlon when they come from countries where the citizens don't have a constitutionally protected right to own firearms.

 

The UK team has to leave the country to practice. France or Belgium.

[Kirby]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

Depends on the dope.  Curling has become a fitness sport where sweeping is involved.  Stronger men can move a rock a long way with sweeping strength.  Drugs such as beta blockers keep heart rate and stress response in check which helps maintain the fine controls of rock handling. 

Reportedly the infamous meldonium.

 

On 2/15/2018 at 12:41 PM, Square Wheels said:

I have not observed any of the Olympics yet, have I missed anything?

Another wardrobe malfunction in ice dance.

[Razors Edge ★]

I realized that country "shopping" remains BS.  The ice dancing had an all American "South Korean" team, and Canada has some skater from Illinois??? The only goal scored by Joint Team Korea in hockey was a US girl?  All this makes the Games so frustrating. I would almost prefer it if I watched without sound and never saw the "background" pieces they show on athletes.

Tom

[Wilbur ★]

24 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I realized that country "shopping" remains BS.  The ice dancing had an all American "South Korean" team, and Canada has some skater from Illinois??? The only goal scored by Joint Team Korea in hockey was a US girl?  All this makes the Games so frustrating. I would almost prefer it if I watched without sound and never saw the "background" pieces they show on athletes.

Tom

Yup. Piper is a naturalized Canuck.  Her Mother is Canadian though so she comes by it honestly.  Lots of cross-overs.  6 Canucks on the SK mens hockey team.  One Dutch on Canada's Long track team. 

[Reverend_Maynard]

"Competing for my country" is probably near the bottom, if it appears at all, of most olympians reasons to be in the olymics.  If you're watching it to see all the national pride everyone is evincing, you're gonna be disappointed (or are really gullible.)

[Ltdskilz]

On 2/14/2018 at 10:01 PM, groupw said:

 

Those were the 2 summer events that came to mind for me, too. But I believe there is a requirement that the poles be available to all competitors. I think that came about when they first started hitting the 17 ft mark. 

I would be curious how a TDF bike compares to a consumer bike with comparably labeled gear. Do you think the same rider could see a 3 second advantage over a 2 Mile course? Not trying to argue. Just curious. 

 

For the Summer Games, I would nominate the grand sport of equestrian competition. Riders bring their own horses. They probably spend far more than the cost of a skeleton just on the tack. When you start discussing the cost of the horses, it's shrouded in mystery, but syndications are not unusual, and The Boss bought one of the winners several years back for his daughter which supposedly cost well into the 7 figures. 

[Razors Edge ★]

1 hour ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

"Competing for my country" is probably near the bottom, if it appears at all, of most olympians reasons to be in the olymics.  If you're watching it to see all the national pride everyone is evincing, you're gonna be disappointed (or are really gullible.)

So it is good to know that no tax dollars go to this stuff!

I imagine we spend our tax dollars more wisely paying the NFL to promote the military.

Tom

[pedalphile]

Wilbur, so sorry, the GB wimmins beat the Canadians in the curling, and for the 1st ever no medals for your ladies. How could this happen? And what will be their fate when they return home?

[Wilbur ★]

41 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

Wilbur, so sorry, the GB wimmins beat the Canadians in the curling, and for the 1st ever no medals for your ladies. How could this happen? And what will be their fate when they return home?

The only thing worse than a poor loser, is a poor winner.  Great Britain played an excellent game. The Canadian girls played their worst tournament ever.  No rocket science.

[maddmaxx ★]

On 2/19/2018 at 4:01 PM, Razors Edge said:

I realized that country "shopping" remains BS.  The ice dancing had an all American "South Korean" team, and Canada has some skater from Illinois??? The only goal scored by Joint Team Korea in hockey was a US girl?  All this makes the Games so frustrating. I would almost prefer it if I watched without sound and never saw the "background" pieces they show on athletes.

Tom

This is true.  People belong to the country they were born in.  They have little right to move unless the birth country indicates it doesn't want their sorry ass anymore.  End immigration.  People with dual citizenship should pick one parent to live.

[Razors Edge ★]

2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

This is true.  People belong to the country they were born in.  They have little right to move unless the birth country indicates it doesn't want their sorry ass anymore.  End immigration.  People with dual citizenship should pick one parent to live.

Don't confuse ordinary immigration with "country shopping".  I'd say it would be simpler and much much much more cost-effective to focus on the few dozen Olympic athletes who shop around their talents, and make a simple rule to exclude them.  Or, go the other route (more grand and full of change) to make the Olympics "nation-agnostic".  Have folks compete simply as athletes with no matter of where they are from.  The world's best athletes make it, so we don't see another Jamaican bobsled team or Eddie the Eagle on hallowed Olympic grounds.

Tom 

[Kzoo]

16 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Don't confuse ordinary immigration with "country shopping".  I'd say it would be simpler and much much much more cost-effective to focus on the few dozen Olympic athletes who shop around their talents, and make a simple rule to exclude them.  Or, go the other route (more grand and full of change) to make the Olympics "nation-agnostic".  Have folks compete simply as athletes with no matter of where they are from.  The world's best athletes make it, so we don't see another Jamaican bobsled team or Eddie the Eagle on hallowed Olympic grounds.

Tom 

If I understand it, the individual countries make up their rules for who can be on their team.  If the IOC doesn't make the rules it could be real hard to get changed. I do agree it takes away from the games.  However, like Edge said, there are cases of real immigration - the skier lady from Mexico just being one. 

A HS classmate of Daughter#1 made it to the NBA (13 year journeyman)  one year was even named an NBA All Star.  There was no way in this life he was ever going to play on our olympic team.  He became close friends with Dirk Nowitzki who convinced him to play for the German national team.  Turns out his great grandparents were German - 3 generations ago - people he had never met.  The Germans said sure anything for Dirk.  Chris played with the German team in the 2008 games.  Good for Chris but he is no more German than I am.

[maddmaxx ★]

40 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Don't confuse ordinary immigration with "country shopping".  I'd say it would be simpler and much much much more cost-effective to focus on the few dozen Olympic athletes who shop around their talents, and make a simple rule to exclude them.  Or, go the other route (more grand and full of change) to make the Olympics "nation-agnostic".  Have folks compete simply as athletes with no matter of where they are from.  The world's best athletes make it, so we don't see another Jamaican bobsled team or Eddie the Eagle on hallowed Olympic grounds.

Tom 

Without the Jamacians and Eddy the Olympics are nothing.  They are just another game weekend.

 

Nation agnostic sucks.  I want to see our athletes kick Canadian ass.   

[pedalphile]

2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Don't confuse ordinary immigration with "country shopping".  I'd say it would be simpler and much much much more cost-effective to focus on the few dozen Olympic athletes who shop around their talents, and make a simple rule to exclude them.  Or, go the other route (more grand and full of change) to make the Olympics "nation-agnostic".  Have folks compete simply as athletes with no matter of where they are from.  The world's best athletes make it, so we don't see another Jamaican bobsled team or Eddie the Eagle on hallowed Olympic grounds.

Tom 

Olympic qualifying standards already take care of the latter point you make, in theory, though I do seem to remember a swimmer still in the pool long after the race was finished, and a Muslim woman runner wrapped head to toe, still running around after all the others had long gone.

[Kirby]

On 2/19/2018 at 4:28 PM, Wilbur said:

Yup. Piper is a naturalized Canuck.  Her Mother is Canadian though so she comes by it honestly.  Lots of cross-overs.  6 Canucks on the SK mens hockey team.  One Dutch on Canada's Long track team. 

Both Piper and Kaitlyn Weaver are US born, but we got lovely Tanith Belbin from Canada, so it's a fair trade.

[maddmaxx ★]

17 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

Olympic qualifying standards already take care of the latter point you make, in theory, though I do seem to remember a swimmer still in the pool long after the race was finished, and a Muslim woman runner wrapped head to toe, still running around after all the others had long gone.

That is the same epitome of "sports" that the same people rant about when speaking of amateurs vs professionals.  To me it is still the most important thing about the Olympics, more important even than winning.  I like to see the tales of people trying to do their best even if they don't match up against the large nations money, support and training conditions.  I always cheer for those like the Jamaican bobsledders.

[pedalphile]

43 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

That is the same epitome of "sports" that the same people rant about when speaking of amateurs vs professionals.  To me it is still the most important thing about the Olympics, more important even than winning.  I like to see the tales of people trying to do their best even if they don't match up against the large nations money, support and training conditions.  I always cheer for those like the Jamaican bobsledders.

I like your sentiments, and to a degree share them. OTOH I feel for those excluded while having the qualification standard, because they’re from a nation spoilt for choice.

Can we agree on 1 thing, though, there should never be another OAR? This is a travesty, especially now 1of them has been busted.

[Wilbur ★]

3 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

I like your sentiments, and to a degree share them. OTOH I feel for those excluded while having the qualification standard, because they’re from a nation spoilt for choice.

Can we agree on 1 thing, though, there should never be another OAR? This is a travesty, especially now 1of them has been busted.

As I have said before, the OAR thing makes no sense at all.  Kind of like the artist name Prince and "The Artist Formerly Known as Prince".   A name change, changes nothing but the name. 

[maddmaxx ★]

2 hours ago, pedalphile said:

I like your sentiments, and to a degree share them. OTOH I feel for those excluded while having the qualification standard, because they’re from a nation spoilt for choice.

Can we agree on 1 thing, though, there should never be another OAR? This is a travesty, especially now 1of them has been busted.

It's probably because I'm old.  I've been watching the Olympics for a long time.  It was the epitome of amateur sports albeit nationalistic even back in the 50's and 60's but always full of stories about how the athletes got there and what they had to do.

Perhaps today's Olympics are too commercial.  It's what we are these days.  We probably deserve it.