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So, will Shaun White be taken down by the media?


Wilbur

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12 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Not if they continue to interchange "sexual assault" and "sexual harassment" as synonyms.

Tom

I know, right?  That article continuously said assault when they were really describing harassment. 

 

Personally, I've had enough of this "me too" movement.  If you didn't complain while it was happening, STFU about it now.

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7 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

This is going to be interesting.  Politicians and personalities are taken out, sports heroes, we are willing to defend?  

Expect plenty of hypocrisy.  

 

12 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

Personally, I've had enough of this "me too" movement.  If you didn't complain while it was happening, STFU about it now.

That's showing a sad and poor understanding of how abuse works - especially to folks in a lesser position of power.

Tom

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10 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

I know, right?  That article continuously said assault when they were really describing harassment. 

 

Personally, I've had enough of this "me too" movement.  If you didn't complain while it was happening, STFU about it now.

Some of us did complain about it when it happened.  We were shooed away and  nothing happened to the accused.

Case in point:  I was assaulted playing football in grade school.  A boy pushed me down and grabbed me inappropriately.  I reported it.  The police were called.  NOTHING HAPPENED TO THAT BOY!  As a matter of fact, the VP of the school wagged his finger at me and blamed me for playing touch football with some boys.  There were other girls there as well, but I was the one that got attacked.  I think what is happening now, is we have more voices, and people are finally listening.  Also, some of the men that have been blamed are men of power.  They wield this power to do whatever the hell they want to do to us.  For years we have been forced to just shut up and take it.  

Rape culture is a problem.  A woman gets attacked or raped and questions like "what were you wearing?" comes up.  It's bullshit.

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1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

Expect plenty of hypocrisy.  

 

That's showing a sad and poor understanding of how abuse works - especially to folks in a lesser position of power.

Tom

Meh.  I've seen far too many situations that get the way they get because the person being "abused" gives absolutely no indication that they are uncomfortable with the situation. 

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2 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Some of us did complain about it when it happened.  We were shooed away and  nothing happened to the accused.

Case in point:  I was assaulted playing football in grade school.  A boy pushed me down and grabbed me inappropriately.  I reported it.  The police were called.  NOTHING HAPPENED TO THAT BOY!  As a matter of fact, the VP of the school wagged his finger at me and blamed me for playing touch football with some boys.  There were other girls there as well, but I was the one that got attacked.  I think what is happening now, is we have more voices, and people are finally listening.  Also, some of the men that have been blamed are men of power.  They wield this power to do whatever the hell they want to do to us.  For years we have been forced to just shut up and take it.  

Rape culture is a problem.  A woman gets attacked or raped and questions like "what were you wearing?" comes up.  It's bullshit.

There's no such thing as rape culture.  It's called life.  Some people are looking to take what doesn't belong to them.  What that thing is varies, but it's no different than any other kind of theft/assault.

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Just now, Reverend_Maynard said:

There's no such thing as rape culture.  It's called life.  Some people are looking to take what doesn't belong to them.  What that thing is varies, but it's no different than any other kind of theft/assault.

Zoom.  You missed the entire point I was trying to make. 

Actually, you are clearly obtuse to the problem that is rearing its head.  There is a thing called rape culture.  It's in our face every day. Also, victim blaming which happened to me. This is a culture that expects us to "shut up about it."

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1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

Zoom.  You missed the entire point I was trying to make. 

Actually, you are clearly obtuse to the problem that is rearing its head.  There is a thing called rape culture.  It's in our face every day. Also, victim blaming which happened to me. This is a culture that expects us to "shut up about it."

And some painting with a mighty broad brush.  I have a hard time understanding how folks can't "get" that a person will not come forward until they feel safe and feel they will be believed. Many come forward regardless, and quite a few pay a very steep price for doing so.  

in Rev's defense, he didn't post a lengthy description of his full stance, so it is fairly easy to be critical of a rather thin argument. 

Tom

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22 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

This is going to be interesting.  Politicians and personalities are taken out, sports heroes, we are willing to defend?  

Sexual assault is never right.  NEVER.  PERIOD.

That said, No man is safe right now.  I wonder when it will spread to women in power being taken down by other women?  Or men by men?  We live in a world of snowflakes, looking to be offended and we realized that it is easy to take some one out by starting a rumor, true or not.

I have read that many of the prisoners held at Guantanamo by the US are there for much the same reason.  Someone had a grudge against them, told the US they are ISIS, or whatever and BOOM, off they go.

 

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11 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Zoom.  You missed the entire point I was trying to make. 

Actually, you are clearly obtuse to the problem that is rearing its head.  There is a thing called rape culture.  It's in our face every day. Also, victim blaming which happened to me. This is a culture that expects us to "shut up about it."

Clearly you didn't do a good job of making your point, then.  Was it "I complained and nothing happened so now I support anyone that complains about anything at anytime and I'll believe them no matter how ridiculous because I wasn't believed?"  'Cause that's what I'm hearing.

Nope.  No such thing.  Sorry.

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9 minutes ago, jsharr said:

Sexual assault is never right.  NEVER.  PERIOD.

That said, No man is safe right now.  I wonder when it will spread to women in power being taken down by other women?  Or men by men?  We live in a world of snowflakes, looking to be offended and we realized that it is easy to take some one out by starting a rumor, true or not.

I have read that many of the prisoners held at Guantanamo by the US are there for much the same reason.  Someone had a grudge against them, told the US they are ISIS, or whatever and BOOM, off they go.

I guess I'm missing the "not" ones ("true or not"), but I have seen the "out of context" ones, perhaps.

But the "no man is safe right now" is an interesting one, since there have been quite a few discussions over the years about the checklist and actions women routinely take to avoid being sexually harassed or assaulted.  As a guy, I pretty much take no precautions of any sort, and rarely get harassed.  Ask any woman, and she will have more than a few stories of times she was not safe (and hopefully not sexually assaulted). Maybe the new statement is "No woman or man is safe right now, so maybe we better figure out what the hell we have been doing wrong for millennia and fix it for all of us." Returning to a "men are safe again, but women aren't" seems like an awful thought.

Tom

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Just now, Razors Edge said:

I guess I'm missing the "not" ones, but I have seen the "out of context" ones, perhaps.

But the "no man is safe right now" is an interesting one, since there have been quite a few discussions over the years about the checklist and actions women routinely take to avoid being sexually harassed or assaulted.  As a guy, I pretty much take no precautions of any sort, and rarely get harassed.  Ask any woman, and she will have more than a few stories of times she was not safe (and hopefully not sexually assaulted). Maybe the new statement is "No woman or man is safe right now, so maybe we better figure out what the hell we have been doing wrong for millennia and fix it for all of us." Returning to a "men are safe again, but women aren't" seems like an awful thought.

Tom

No man is safe from being accused.  

I will readily admit I was and probably still am a total ass at times but I have never sexually assaulted anyone.  Howcer, if I was accused of sexual assult by someone from my past, I would have a hard time proving otherwise.   That was the point I as trying to make.

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29 minutes ago, jsharr said:

That said, No man is safe right now.  I wonder when it will spread to women in power being taken down by other women?  Or men by men?  We live in a world of snowflakes, looking to be offended and we realized that it is easy to take some one out by starting a rumor, true or not.

 

This is why I bring this up.  There will no doubt be multiple standards predicated on usefulness or desirability of the accused.  Will woman on woman be considered okay or easier to sweep under the rug? 

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If he was guilty then he was guilty.  If there was a misunderstanding that was settled then what is he guilty of?  Without charges by the person involved what do we have here?  We have a hot press story.  If on the other hand the person involved brings new charges then there is a story.

Wilbur is right about this one.  Me too is going to end up going too far in some cases and that is unfortunate.  It's bad for the falsely accused and it's bad for the movement as women with real charges get their cases watered down.

 

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26 minutes ago, jsharr said:

No man is safe from being accused.  

I will readily admit I was and probably still am a total ass at times but I have never sexually assaulted anyone.  Howcer, if I was accused of sexual assult by someone from my past, I would have a hard time proving otherwise.   That was the point I as trying to make.

???? 

How is that new or different than at any time before? Or is it just that folks might actually believe and act upon the accusations a little more readily now??? I'm running names through my head again (Trump, Porter, Weinstein, Cosby, Franken, Moore, etc) and still hitting blanks on rampant false accusations. I then think about the Nassar story and I really start to get angry that there is a #metoo backlash during this time. This country is starting too really get screwed when folks reactions to a rash of serious & significant sexual harassment and sexual assault stories is to worry about themselves being falsely accused.

Tom

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2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

???? 

How is that new or different than at any time before? Or is it just that folks might actually believe and act upon the accusations a little more readily now??? I'm running names through my head again (Trump, Porter, Weinstein, Cosby, Franken, Moore, etc) and still hitting blanks on rampant false accusations. I then think about the Nassar story and I really start to get angry that there is a #metoo backlash during this time. This country is starting too really get screwed when folks reactions to a rash of serious & significant sexual harassment and sexual assault stories is to worry about themselves being falsely accused.

Tom

So based on that, your opinion of anyone accused is guilty till proven innocent?

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14 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

So based on that, your opinion of anyone accused is guilty till proven innocent?

We've had this discussion over in P&R.  Regarding this latest brush up, I'm just wondering when men became such a bunch of hysterical worry warts!  Jeebus. I have never written anything remotely along those lines, but it is interesting that you interpret it that way.  I bring up ACTUAL cases from the news and DH brings up an ACTUAL event from her life, and then I read a series of men commenting that #metoo has gone to far and it is open season on men.  I think my very first comment in the thread shows I think BS news stories can't be trusted, but I gave no opinion one way or another on Shaun White's situation. I'm never going to just believe a claim without some sort of evidence (and a rebuttal if provided), but I still don't get why folks think it is open season on men right now.

Tom

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4 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

We've had this discussion over in P&R.  Regarding this latest brush up, I'm just wondering when men became such a bunch of hysterical worry warts!  Jeebus. I have never written anything remotely along those lines, but it is interesting that you interpret it that way.  I bring up ACTUAL cases from the news and DH brings up an ACTUAL event from her life, and then I read a series of men commenting that #metoo has gone to far and it is open season on men.  I think my very first comment in the thread shows I think BS news stories can't be trusted, but I gave no opinion one way or another on Shaun White's situation. I'm never going to just believe a claim without some sort of evidence (and a rebuttal if provided), but I still don't get why folks think it is open season on men right now.

Tom

Is Shawn White a real story?  What do you think.  If there's nothing to it is it just an exception to all the guilty assed men out there or is it like Wilbur and I are saying a warning flag to be careful not to get carried away.

No one is saying anything remotely like laying off the guilty so your cases of men charged and really guilty of the offense don't really apply other than establishing a seemingly important statistic in your mind that sways judgement to guilty before proof.

If he is guilty than a proper investigation will show it and he should be punished appropriately.  If he's not than attitudes like yours will ruin his life for no valid reason.

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So Shaun White apparently admits that he sent this girl some pics of peni, but not anything else. (Is that the correct plural spelling?) Certainly crude and offensive. Criminal? I dunno. She was not a minor like Weiner's kids. Apparently this was sometime over 3 years ago. She sued for back wages from the band. Amended to throw in harassment claims to get some additional greenbacks. They settled out of court. She also alleged that he "forced his authoritarian management style on her for over seven years." If that's a crime, we're all up shit creek. She got her money. Signed off on settlement agreement. She was listened to and paid attention to, and paid.

Now Shaun White lays down one of the clutch athletic performances of a lifetime to win gold on the final run, and Yahoo News or whoever dredges this up on the day after. Haters gonna hate.

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9 minutes ago, Ltdskilz said:

So Shaun White apparently admits that he sent this girl some pics of peni, but not anything else. (Is that the correct plural spelling?) Certainly crude and offensive. Criminal? I dunno. She was not a minor like Weiner's kids. Apparently this was sometime over 3 years ago. She sued for back wages from the band. Amended to throw in harassment claims to get some additional greenbacks. They settled out of court. She also alleged that he "forced his authoritarian management style on her for over seven years." If that's a crime, we're all up shit creek. She got her money. Signed off on settlement agreement. She was listened to and paid attention to, and paid.

Now Shaun White lays down one of the clutch athletic performances of a lifetime to win gold on the final run, and Yahoo News or whoever dredges this up on the day after. Haters gonna hate.

SW forces his authoritarian style on us. Class action?

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1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

I am always right. Just ask @Kzoo! :)  

Bingo!

In my uninformed opinion, this is a non story that the jerk from ABC and Christine Brennan are using to get their 15 minutes in the spotlights.  This was an accusation that was brought by a friend of his that was settled.  SETTLED.  But in the current #metoo climate they had to bring it up on his biggest stage.  I have no time for Brennan on this subject or any other.

I'm not defending White or what he might have done but He did not step up to the microphone and the Olympic organizers did not facilitate the presser nor did the US snowboarding organizers get involved to discuss something that had nothing to do with the current events.  Those 2 could take all kinds of measures to confront the issue with him or his people on the issue that was SETTLED at any other time.  This was his time.  Brennan said this morning that he doesn't get to decide.  If it was me, I would make it very clear that that buffoon gets to decide nothing for me. 

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4 hours ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

Meh.  I've seen far too many situations that get the way they get because the person being "abused" gives absolutely no indication that they are uncomfortable with the situation. 

And the only possible explanation you can conceive for that is that it didn’t happen? Right. This says more about you than it says about the real world.

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46 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

And the only possible explanation you can conceive for that is that it didn’t happen? Right. This says more about you than it says about the real world.

And what does it say about you that you just made up my answer to a question you never even game me a chance to answer and then tried to ridicule me for said answer?

 

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6 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

And what does it say about you that you just made up my answer to a question you never even game me a chance to answer and then tried to ridicule me for said answer?

 

It says this, I am nothing if not fair: please go ahead and explain yourself other ways than I have characterised you.

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4 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

It says this, I am nothing if not fair: please go ahead and explain yourself other ways than I have characterised you.

You can keep telling yourself that, but that won't ever make it true.  Sorry, but there's no point in my conversing with someone who's already made up my position for me.

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7 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

You can keep telling yourself that, but that won't ever make it true.  Sorry, but there's no point in my conversing with someone who's already made up my position for me.

You’ve said what you’ve said, we can all see it for what it is, my only fault is calling you out on it, yours is being unable to defend the indefensible position you’ve taken.

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3 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

I've only refused to defend the position you tried to put me in.

So you should feel fine defending the position you put yourself in, yet still decline to do so. I, and maybe others, will draw the conclusion you’ve got nothing. Please don’t let that be true.

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17 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

So you should feel fine defending the position you put yourself in, yet still decline to do so. I, and maybe others, will draw the conclusion you’ve got nothing. Please don’t let that be true.

I would feel fine, but you've already poisoned the waters, so I choose not to. If you actually wanted me to and were open to listening, you probably wouldn't have made up the position you wanted me to take and then ridiculed me for it.

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2 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

I would feel fine, but you've already poisoned the waters, so I choose not to. If you actually wanted me to and were open to listening, you probably wouldn't have made up the position you wanted me to take and then ridiculed me for it.

Pathetic.

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3 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

I would feel fine, but you've already poisoned the waters, so I choose not to. If you actually wanted me to and were open to listening, you probably wouldn't have made up the position you wanted me to take and then ridiculed me for it.

You’ll be claiming i’ve Abused you next.

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2 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I'm not sure how the media would take him down. He's not in public office, has no influence over anyone. He'll be forgotten about in a few news cycles, anyway. Maybe he'll get less advertisements as result of this? 

Character assassination. That would affect his earning potential. 

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