Wilbur ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #1 Posted February 15, 2018 18 to buy an assault rifle? Insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groupw Posted February 15, 2018 Share #2 Posted February 15, 2018 I’ll try not to get it moved to P&R. Everyone wants to point fingers at gun ownership or mental health. Both have been around our entire history. So why now? What is triggering all the attacks? We need to focus on what is causing the fear and anger and try to diffuse things there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted February 15, 2018 Share #3 Posted February 15, 2018 I temporarily forgot the deaths were on V-day today. Very tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted February 15, 2018 Share #4 Posted February 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, groupw said: I’ll try not to get it moved to P&R. Everyone wants to point fingers at gun ownership or mental health. Both have been around our entire history. So why now? What is triggering all the attacks? We need to focus on what is causing the fear and anger and try to diffuse things there. People are losing hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted February 15, 2018 Share #5 Posted February 15, 2018 American dream is dead. Very cruel politics are happening. People are fighting with each other. Many are deeply in debt, and see no way out of it. Fear and anger are a common emotion right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further Posted February 15, 2018 Share #6 Posted February 15, 2018 This is way too common. Soon every day will have a massacre to be remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groupw Posted February 15, 2018 Share #7 Posted February 15, 2018 In my job, I go into many businesses and homes. This is strictly anecdotal, but I find the more I hear talk radio or politically leaning news channels on the TV, the more angry and fearful the personalities of my clients. It seems the more they listen, the more it feeds on itself. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted February 15, 2018 Share #8 Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, groupw said: I’ll try not to get it moved to P&R. Everyone wants to point fingers at gun ownership or mental health. Both have been around our entire history. So why now? What is triggering all the attacks? We need to focus on what is causing the fear and anger and try to diffuse things there. ...I don't care if it gets moved, so I'll just lay it out for you. What's different is that any asshole with 500 bucks in the United States can now buy enough firepower to kill 20 or 50 people in short order, and he doesn't need a particularly high level of skill to do it. That's what's different, and it's not all that hard to figure out what's wrong with that scenario and what it would take to change it. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #9 Posted February 15, 2018 4 hours ago, Page Turner said: ...I don't care if it gets moved, so I'll just lay it out for you. What's different is that any asshole with 500 bucks in the United States can now buy enough firepower to kill 20 or 50 people in short order, and he doesn't need a particularly high level of skill to do it. That's what's different, and it's not all that hard to figure out what's wrong with that scenario and what it would take to change it. Damn hippie, communist, liberal, bike riding, Californian, pension grabbing, ex government worker. The above statement used to point out the toxic political environment we live in. It's not difficult to see the short jump from there to "bang" your dead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airehead Posted February 15, 2018 Share #10 Posted February 15, 2018 So sad and senseless. Personally, this is the horror of my nightmares and I didn’t get much sleep last night. Pulling a fire alarm to move masses of people in full halls. Then open fire. I can’t find a scenario where I can keep kids safe if this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2018 Share #11 Posted February 15, 2018 8 hours ago, Wilbur said: 18 to buy an assault rifle? Insane. Same age to be asked to use the same weapon to defend a nation. i personally don’t see the need to own an assault type weapon, but that weapon didn’t cause this persons mental illness that led him to do this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share #12 Posted February 15, 2018 36 minutes ago, Zackny said: Same age to be asked to use the same weapon to defend a nation. i personally don’t see the need to own an assault type weapon, but that weapon didn’t cause this persons mental illness that led him to do this. I know, and my hammer doesn't build a house. edit: Why is the hand gun ownership age 21 while the Assault rifle age is 18? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share #13 Posted February 15, 2018 Gun fans and non-fans will never see eye to eye on this. Two completely different mind sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted February 15, 2018 Share #14 Posted February 15, 2018 When a person uses a truck to mow down pedestrians, we don't question why it so easy to rent a truck or get a license. The discussion focuses on the individual, not the means. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share #15 Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: When a person uses a truck to mow down pedestrians, we don't question why it so easy to rent a truck or get a license. The discussion focuses on the individual, not the means. True, but suppose you had barriers to slow that truck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share #16 Posted February 15, 2018 Lets look at the fire power of the Mirage shooter. Had he been there having maybe 5 shots per rifle, would he still have picked off as many concert goers? I highly doubt it. Sorry guys, weapons designed to kill masses, kill masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentonMakes Posted February 15, 2018 Share #17 Posted February 15, 2018 Trump sent his condolences. That makes it all better, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2018 Share #18 Posted February 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Lets look at the fire power of the Mirage shooter. Had he been there having maybe 5 shots per rifle, would he still have picked off as many concert goers? I highly doubt it. Sorry guys, weapons designed to kill masses, kill masses. But not on their own. It still takes a human to squeeze a trigger or steer a vehicle or an airplane. Until we figure out how to address the person issues we will deal with these tragedies again and again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Karen_Cooper_Incident Posted February 15, 2018 Share #19 Posted February 15, 2018 2 hours ago, maddmaxx said: Damn hippie, communist, liberal, bike riding, Californian, pension grabbing, ex government worker. I always feel the need to defend Page's honor. But you pretty much nailed him on this one. Damn hippies. Couch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parr8hed Posted February 15, 2018 Share #20 Posted February 15, 2018 28 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Lets look at the fire power of the Mirage shooter. Had he been there having maybe 5 shots per rifle, would he still have picked off as many concert goers? I highly doubt it. Sorry guys, weapons designed to kill masses, kill masses. Absolutely. Minimal practice with mag changes and multiple loaded magazines would accomplish the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Karen_Cooper_Incident Posted February 15, 2018 Share #21 Posted February 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, TrentonMakes said: Trump sent his condolences. And what if he didn't? I understand people don't like the man but what the fuck was he supposed to do? I know, he was supposed to get fucked. Couch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parr8hed Posted February 15, 2018 Share #22 Posted February 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Page Turner said: That's what's different, and it's not all that hard to figure out what's wrong with that scenario and what it would take to change it. Serious question, what do you propose we do to change it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentonMakes Posted February 15, 2018 Share #23 Posted February 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Couch_Incident said: And what if he didn't? I understand people don't like the man but what the fuck was he supposed to do? Continued inaction on this issue makes condolences seem pretty empty. In my opinion. And no, I do not like the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Karen_Cooper_Incident Posted February 15, 2018 Share #24 Posted February 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, TrentonMakes said: Continued inaction on this issue makes condolences seem pretty empty. In my opinion. And no, I do not like the man. Thanks for answering my question. Couch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentonMakes Posted February 15, 2018 Share #25 Posted February 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Couch_Incident said: Thanks for answering my question. "What is he supposed to do?" Either offer condolences, or say nothing. You are right, offering condolences (which some will interpret as empty) is the lesser of two evils in this case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedalphile Posted February 15, 2018 Share #26 Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Wilbur said: Gun fans and non-fans will never see eye to eye on this. Two completely different mind sets. This is the truth, Wilbur, I've witnessed it many times, mostly in the LF. So now I keep my 2 sense worth and sit back and admire the wisdom of the gunners. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Karen_Cooper_Incident Posted February 15, 2018 Share #27 Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, pedalphile said: This is the truth, Wilbur, I've witnessed it many times, mostly in the LF. So now I keep my 2 sense worth and sit back and admire the wisdom of the gunners. And I sit back and watch the wisdom of the lunatics. You know who you are! Couch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted February 15, 2018 Share #28 Posted February 15, 2018 We'll forgot this and move on. This will be like cancer soon enough. Everyone will know someone who's 5 year old was riddled with bullets. It's sad what people have been brainwashed to believe. Yes, I accept it is our right to carry guns, including ones that dispense insane amounts of deadly force. I've read of people posting here of the guns they regularly carry for protection and the guns their wives carry in their purses. I've survived almost 54 years so far and never once has the thought entered my head that I needed protection of any kind. I suspect the founding fathers never expected the level of corruption that exists in our laws now, and the guns they were talking about... I believe those fired one lead ball at a time (with dubious accuracy) and took considerable time to reload. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #29 Posted February 15, 2018 10 hours ago, Wilbur said: 18 to buy an assault rifle? Insane. I am not going to be parodying this one... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #30 Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Wilbur said: Gun fans and non-fans will never see eye to eye on this. Two completely different mind sets. I would turn in every gun I own if I knew it would stop senseless violence like this. Sadly, I do not think this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #31 Posted February 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Square Wheels said: We'll forgot this and move on. This will be like cancer soon enough. Everyone in the US will know someone who's 5 year old was riddled with bullets. It's sad what people have been brainwashed to believe. FIFY. Trust me, the Brits aren't going to know someone. The Germans aren't going to know someone. The Japanese aren't going to know someone. No other OECD nation will know anyone. Period. Tom 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #32 Posted February 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Zackny said: Same age to be asked to use the same weapon to defend a nation. i personally don’t see the need to own an assault type weapon, but that weapon didn’t cause this persons mental illness that led him to do this. I don't agree. I believe that the weapon and the crazy ability to own dozens of such along with the culture that goes with that does in fact lead to an easy escalation of crazy from just anti social to murderous. There's more to the gun then just the piece of hardware in America. There is a crazy over the top culture that has become too dangerous to be allowed to continue. How to do that while still honoring the 2nd is a serious question. The status quo cannot be allowed to continue. We are going to need to put the brakes on unlimited ability to kill on a whim. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #33 Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: When a person uses a truck to mow down pedestrians, we don't question why it so easy to rent a truck or get a license. The discussion focuses on the individual, not the means. Yet when the gun discussion focuses on individuals that should be denied the right to own or carry firearms the same NRA culture jumps in and screams 2nd amendment's rights and "you can't infringe". Of course we can. We infringe on rights every day when they endanger others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #34 Posted February 15, 2018 Access to guns is the reason that the United States leads the world in mass shootings and violent crime. We have 4% of the world population and 44% of the world's guns. We are no more or less mentally unstable than any other country. We do not play more or less video games. We just have guns everywhere. A Londoner is no more or less likely than a New York to be robbed, but the New Yorker is over 50 times more likely to be killed in the process. I may be getting rid of my guns. The thought has been strong on my mind. We only have two, a 12 gauge pump shotgun and .22 semi auto rilfe. We only use them for target shooting and they stay under lock and key. Until the US drastically changes gun control laws and works to aggressively remove guns from the streets, the issue will remain. I can see the first one happening, the second one not so much. I can see very strict regulation on ammunition being one way to help reduce problem, but even then, how much. Laws help to keep honest people honest and have little deterrent factor to the criminal mind or those with bad intent.https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parr8hed Posted February 15, 2018 Share #35 Posted February 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: We are going to need to put the brakes on unlimited ability to kill on a whim. How? We already have laws that say you can't kill people. How is making a law that says you can't own an assault rifle going to help? It is illegal to shoot someone. It's illegal to plow into people with a moving van. It's illegal to hijack a plane full of people and fly it into a building. Yet all of this happens. Simply making a law that says you can't own guns won't accomplish a damn thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeman564™ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #36 Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, TrentonMakes said: Trump sent his condolences. That makes it all better, right? just like every other fucking president, it's a meaningless required statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeman564™ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #37 Posted February 15, 2018 I don't understand how shootings like this happen when its a gun free zone? That means no guns. I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #38 Posted February 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Parr8hed said: How? We already have laws that say you can't kill people. How is making a law that says you can't own an assault rifle going to help? It is illegal to shoot someone. It's illegal to plow into people with a moving van. It's illegal to hijack a plane full of people and fly it into a building. Yet all of this happens. Simply making a law that says you can't own guns won't accomplish a damn thing. We do not have laws that allow a doctor to write a single note and remove your right to own a gun. We do not have laws that state that a spouse under court restraining order for abuse must turn in all firearms and not buy more until such time as the order is lifted. These are just examples of a host of regulations that would each make a small difference but collectively perhaps make a difference that counts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted February 15, 2018 Share #39 Posted February 15, 2018 21 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said: I don't understand how shootings like this happen when its a gun free zone? That means no guns. I'm confused. Depends on how it's enforced. My daughters school is locked at all time. They have a police officer on site whenever there is school. It's safer, but far from safe. Each year for the past few years some dumbass has called in a bomb threat or threatened to bring a gun to school. Possibly a dare from a dumbass buddy. The boys have been expelled from school and arrested. Life altering prank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeman564™ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #40 Posted February 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, Square Wheels said: They have a police officer on site whenever there is school. sorry to hear this, that it's come to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share #41 Posted February 15, 2018 36 minutes ago, jsharr said: Access to guns is the reason that the United States leads the world in mass shootings and violent crime. We have 4% of the world population and 44% of the world's guns. We are no more or less mentally unstable than any other country. We do not play more or less video games. We just have guns everywhere. A Londoner is no more or less likely than a New York to be robbed, but the New Yorker is over 50 times more likely to be killed in the process. I may be getting rid of my guns. The thought has been strong on my mind. We only have two, a 12 gauge pump shotgun and .22 semi auto rilfe. We only use them for target shooting and they stay under lock and key. Until the US drastically changes gun control laws and works to aggressively remove guns from the streets, the issue will remain. I can see the first one happening, the second one not so much. I can see very strict regulation on ammunition being one way to help reduce problem, but even then, how much. Laws help to keep honest people honest and have little deterrent factor to the criminal mind or those with bad intent.https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html Mind blowing when you look at stats graphically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #42 Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, maddmaxx said: We do not have laws that allow a doctor to write a single note and remove your right to own a gun. We do not have laws that state that a spouse under court restraining order for abuse must turn in all firearms and not buy more until such time as the order is lifted. These are just examples of a host of regulations that would each make a small difference but collectively perhaps make a difference that counts. How would the two laws you mention above matter? You can take away my right to own a gun today and I could have a gun tomorrow. When I bought the .22 rifle, I walked into the gun show, saw the rifle, walked to the cash machine, got five crisp $20s, walked back to the booth, handed the guy the cash, showed I was of legal age and walked out the door with a semi auto .22 rile and three 20 round magazines. They did not check a computer to see if my doctor said I was crazy or if the wife and I were on the outs. They took my cash and gave me a gun and it was legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share #43 Posted February 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, jsharr said: They did not check a computer to see if my doctor said I was crazy or if the wife and I were on the outs. They took my cash and gave me a gun and it was legal. We do all that in Canada. Any psych background or recent job loss, divorce etc will ban you from the legal ability to own a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #44 Posted February 15, 2018 Just now, Wilbur said: We do all that in Canada. Any psych background or recent job loss, divorce etc will ban you from the legal ability to own a gun. but what about person to person sales? How is that enforced? I went to a gun show and you could buy, sell or trade private party to private party with no background check. Not sure how you can ever put the horse back in the barn when there are tens of millions of horses loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share #45 Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, jsharr said: but what about person to person sales? How is that enforced? I went to a gun show and you could buy, sell or trade private party to private party with no background check. Not sure how you can ever put the horse back in the barn when there are tens of millions of horses loose. Well, therein lies the problem. In the US, the horse is out of the barn. Enforcement is primarily through registration of the weapon and licence to acquire and possess of the individuals. http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/sell-vendre-eng.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #46 Posted February 15, 2018 ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens PARKLAND, FL—In the hours following a violent rampage in Florida in which a lone attacker killed 17 individuals and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Wednesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said Indiana resident Harold Turner, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this individual from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what they really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past eight years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentonMakes Posted February 15, 2018 Share #47 Posted February 15, 2018 The Onion is supposed to be funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 15, 2018 Share #48 Posted February 15, 2018 At Walmart, you have to wait in line and show ID to get sudafed, but you can grab ammo off the shelf on aisle 23. This is a huge part of the problem. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted February 15, 2018 Share #49 Posted February 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Parr8hed said: Serious question, what do you propose we do to change it? How? We already have laws that say you can't kill people. How is making a law that says you can't own an assault rifle going to help? It is illegal to shoot someone. It's illegal to plow into people with a moving van. It's illegal to hijack a plane full of people and fly it into a building. Yet all of this happens. Simply making a law that says you can't own guns won't accomplish a damn thing. ...you should never ask questions to which you don't really want to listen to all the answers. My ol' pappy taught me that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted February 15, 2018 Share #50 Posted February 15, 2018 ...I'm an old man. Damn kids, I don't like 'em anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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