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Need chain help


Square Wheels

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So, silly me, I thought I'd pretend I knew what I was doing.

I bought some KMC quick links.  

Got off to a bad start and removed the wrong link from the chain, so I had to remove two more to get it in.

It went together way too easy.  All I did was pull it and it slid in place, no force, no clicking.

Now my chain is too short and I'm afraid it will come apart when I'm riding.

Will I die?

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2 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...yes.  But probably for a different reason. Check so see that you bought the correct width links for your chain. 

If the link is too wide and slops around it can create some issues with separation under load.  Separation under load  is not an especially good thing.

It's for a 10 speed Shimano.  It seemed to fit perfectly.  I watched a couple of videos, it seemed like you cold pull it together and it would click, but the pliers would be a big help getting it apart.

I can pull it closed with almost no effort.

Looks like I'll be stopping by the bike shop tomorrow.  I'd rather it doesn't come apart while riding.  I worry they'll want to replace the chain rings.  They looked a little worn.  Probably 12 thousand miles on them.  I ride in any weather and don't do a great job cleaning things up.

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34 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

It's for a 10 speed Shimano.  It seemed to fit perfectly.  I watched a couple of videos, it seemed like you cold pull it together and it would click, but the pliers would be a big help getting it apart.

I can pull it closed with almost no effort.

Looks like I'll be stopping by the bike shop tomorrow.  I'd rather it doesn't come apart while riding.  I worry they'll want to replace the chain rings.  They looked a little worn.  Probably 12 thousand miles on them.  I ride in any weather and don't do a great job cleaning things up.

I have had very bad experience replacing the chain without replacing the chain rings and cassette - skips under heavy load - not good!  They say you can get away with it if they aren;t worn too much but I am skeptical.  There is a thread aboot it here - I'll get the link.

 

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53 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

It went together way too easy.  All I did was pull it and it slid in place, no force, no clicking.

Now my chain is too short and I'm afraid it will come apart when I'm riding.

My Sram quick links go together quite easily with no clicks. If you can't easily get the link apart, you have probably assembled it correctly and completely. A quick check for a chain that is "too" short is cross chain to big ring/big cog. If the rear derailleur has any more reach, you can safely ride. If you have expended all reach, you can still ride safely. Just don't go into the larger gears and replace the chain the first chance you get. 

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35 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

It's for a 10 speed Shimano.  It seemed to fit perfectly.  I watched a couple of videos, it seemed like you cold pull it together and it would click, but the pliers would be a big help getting it apart.

I can pull it closed with almost no effort.

Looks like I'll be stopping by the bike shop tomorrow.  I'd rather it doesn't come apart while riding.  I worry they'll want to replace the chain rings.  They looked a little worn.  Probably 12 thousand miles on them.  I ride in any weather and don't do a great job cleaning things up.

....first, what they used to tell people at all the shops was not to use a quicklink on a Shimano chain.

Second, most of the people I know who have done so have had perfectly acceptable results.

Third, the more rear cogs you have on your drive train setup, and the narrower the chain, the more finicky it is with regard to wear and shifting.

Fourth, if you really did make your chain too short to cover the large on the front, large on the back combination, it's possible (but unlikely) to accidentally attempt to shift into that combination and damage your rear derailleur or your brifters.  Worst case is you tweak the rear derailleur into the spokes and crash....but hardly anyone has ever done that.

 

Finally, chainwheels, being larger, do not wear as rapidly as the rear cogs (especially the smaller 12 an 13 tooth ones, if you use them).  But they do wear eventually to the point where it's difficult to get good performance unless you replace them with something less worn.  I buy my chainwheels over at the bike co-op, but I don't ride any of that high falutin' , more cogs in the rear than 8, fancy city folk bicycles. *ptoo*

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I can easily slide it together and just as easily slide it apart.

The chain was already on the shorter side, so it's likely way too short now.

I'll plead with them to put in a quick link and show me how.  If they refuse, I'll just go back to cleaning it the way I used to.

The chain rings had that shark fin look to them.  I never noticed until I too the chain off.  They are Ultegra, so it will set me back a few bucks, hopefully they are OK.

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...modern chainrings, which are cut to promote smoother and more trouble free shifting, often have a couple of "shark fin" looking ones spaced around the ring to make chain pickup more aggressive.  It's more difficult to eyeball wear on them for this reason.  But if you really do ride in crappy conditions and don't check your chain regularly for elongation, it's entirely possible that your froo-froo, ten cogs in the rear, "look at me I'm faster than you", bicycle does indeed need new rings.  Any shop you take it into will probably suggest you buy new ones, because when you walk in the door you look like this to them.

 

giphy.gif

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3 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...modern chainrings, which are cut to promote smoother and more trouble free shifting, often have a couple of "shark fin" looking ones spaced around the ring to make chain pickup more aggressive.  It's more difficult to eyeball wear on them for this reason.  But if you really do ride in crappy conditions and don't check your chain regularly for elongation, it's entirely possible that your froo-froo, ten cogs in the rear, "look at me I'm faster than you", bicycle does indeed need new rings.  Any shop you take it into will probably suggest you buy new ones, because when you walk in the door you look like this to them.

 

giphy.gif

Possibly, but these guys are OK.  I'll ask them to show me why they need to be replaced, or just the big one, I don't use the little one much at all.

I didn't realize some of them should look that way, that's good to know.  Thanks

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9 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

I can easily slide it together and just as easily slide it apart.

The chain was already on the shorter side, so it's likely way too short now.

I'll plead with them to put in a quick link and show me how.  If they refuse, I'll just go back to cleaning it the way I used to.

The chain rings had that shark fin look to them.  I never noticed until I too the chain off.  They are Ultegra, so it will set me back a few bucks, hopefully they are OK.

...if they tell you they won't use a quicklink on a Shimano chain because it's against the manufacturer's recommended procedures, KMC makes wonderful chains, and they are cheaper than Shimano chains. I stopped using Shimano chains when the made them directional, and started insisting you join them with that stupid disposable break off pin thingy.  

I have enough confusing things going on in my life without figuring our directionality in my bike chains.:frantics:

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1 minute ago, Page Turner said:

...if they tell you they won't use a quicklink on a Shimano chain because it's against the manufacturer's recommended procedures, KMC makes wonderful chains, and they are cheaper than Shimano chains. I stopped using Shimano chains when the made them directional, and started insisting you join them with that stupid disposable break off pin thingy.  

I have enough confusing things going on in my life without figuring our directionality in my bike chains.:frantics:

On their site they list KMC chains, I'll ask for one of those instead.

You've been very helpful, it stinks being such a noob and paying for everything I need.

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1 hour ago, Square Wheels said:

I worry they'll want to replace the chain rings.

If they're smart, they'll tell you that the new chain rings are Bluetooth compatible, will wirelessly upload through your Garmin to Strava, and come with a free app to automatically synchronize with your iPod shuffle/iPhone/i-You-name-it.

Then you'll be so happy you'll start skipping around the shop, because for you those latest electronic gizmo thingies are like crack   candy   hummus on sun-dried tomatoes.

;)

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Just now, donkpow said:

Ultegra chainrings are cool and all that but for a daily rider, I'd go with steel chainrings. Last longer than aluminum.

...I'm not sure the fancy, better than you and me, 10 cogs on the back, plastic bicycle crowd can even buy steel chainrings for their "I'm lighter and  faster than you" bicycles.

Once you get up into ten and eleven in the back, you're already so far down the rabbit hole of light and fast that stuff that will last a long time doesn't get made for you any more.:(

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that.:flirtyeyess:

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I keep a quick link and a multi-tool with a chain remover in my bike's tool kit.  I've watched the YouTube videos so I think I'm ready if I need an on-the-trail fix, but haven't had to do it yet.

In either case, I figure if I'm making the chain 2 or more links shorter, I'm doing it so I can ride out of the woods instead of walk on less than than the largest gears and intend to replace the chain ASAP.

Rather than have repaired chain worries on the back of my mind every time I ride, it's worth my piece of mind to get a new chain.

Of course, you could check on a bike rack how much chain you have to spare at max. usage.

If you're worried about the quick link and want to keep the chain, you're better off using a chain removing tool, which I've never used but the trick is to keep each pin you loosen slightly still-in-the-hole instead of removing it then trying to get it back in.  That way, the chain is basically the same as before except shorter.

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22 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

If you're worried about the quick link and want to keep the chain, you're better off using a chain removing tool, which I've never used but the trick is to keep each pin you loosen slightly still-in-the-hole instead of removing it then trying to get it back in.  That way, the chain is basically the same as before except shorter.

...the newer chains don't allow for that.  Stuff like the 10 speed Shimano chain Wheels has got has pins that are peened on the ends.

Once you push them out, the hole in the side plate is a teeny bit larger, so you need to either use a Shimano tapered pin with a break off end, or a quick link.

Sometimes you can get away with pushing the pin back in on one of them for a while, but it will eventually give out, usually on a dark rainy night outside a Romanian castle.

 

You can still buy some chains that work like you describe, but they're usually for 7 cogs or less in width and the pins are straight, not peened on the ends. KMC sells a version.

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43 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

Once you push them out, the hole in the side plate is a teeny bit larger, so you need to either use a Shimano tapered pin with a break off end, or a quick link.

Sometimes you can get away with pushing the pin back in on one of them for a while, but it will eventually give out, usually on a dark rainy night outside a Romanian castle.

That's good to know. I replaced my Dura Ace chain with a new Dura Ace chain and I bought some of those Shimano tapered pins with the break off end and a package of quick links but I haven't had to use either. My LBS says they don't usually bother with Shimano chains because they are a PITA. Probably next chain will be something else.

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2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

I'm afraid that I'm an 8 speed user like Page as well.  I do use SRAM chains however.  

I am a 6 and 7 spd user and have used Sram chains exclusively for as long as I have been riding this time around. The quick link is a good thing as far as I am concerned. Even if there was some degree of weakness in the system, it's still better than pushing pins in and out with a chain tool.

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17 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

So, silly me, I thought I'd pretend I knew what I was doing.

I bought some KMC quick links.  

Got off to a bad start and removed the wrong link from the chain, so I had to remove two more to get it in.

It went together way too easy.  All I did was pull it and it slid in place, no force, no clicking.

Now my chain is too short and I'm afraid it will come apart when I'm riding.

Out of curiosity, why did you install the links now? Was this a chain swap, so you figured now was a good time to do it? Or was the chain good, but you decided to break it and add the quick link?

Rule #1 of everything is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Regarding the chainring, 12k is an obscenely low mileage for worrying about replacing the big ring. Like PT is suggesting, you are probably just noticing the shaping that Shimano does to the teeth to improve shifting. If the big ring truly needs to be replaced (and it won't), you horribly neglected that bike.

Tom

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2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Regarding the chainring, 12k is an obscenely low mileage for worrying about replacing the big ring. Like PT is suggesting, you are probably just noticing the shaping that Shimano does to the teeth to improve shifting. If the big ring truly needs to be replaced (and it won't), you horribly neglected that bike.

Depends. A masher riding the winter through road grit is going to ruin an Ultegra gear pretty fast. There was a guy on the other forum who was shocked by the amount of aluminum his gear was shedding.

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10 minutes ago, donkpow said:

Depends. A masher riding the winter through road grit is going to ruin an Ultegra gear pretty fast. There was a guy on the other forum who was shocked by the amount of aluminum his gear was shedding.

I put an aluminum sprocket on my dirt bike I used to race. One race and it was toast. Buy this racing sprocket they said, it will save xx ounces off your weight. I tried to return it the day after the race, they couldn't believe it but they didn't give me a refund.

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3 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

I put an aluminum sprocket on my dirt bike I used to race. One race and it was toast. Buy this racing sprocket they said, it will save xx ounces off your weight. I tried to return it the day after the race, they couldn't believe it but they didn't give me a refund.

Well it was getting lighter during the race!

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Out of curiosity, why did you install the links now? Was this a chain swap, so you figured now was a good time to do it? Or was the chain good, but you decided to break it and add the quick link?

Rule #1 of everything is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Regarding the chainring, 12k is an obscenely low mileage for worrying about replacing the big ring. Like PT is suggesting, you are probably just noticing the shaping that Shimano does to the teeth to improve shifting. If the big ring truly needs to be replaced (and it won't), you horribly neglected that bike.

Tom

I wanted an easier way to keep everything clean.

Brought it to the shop, he agreed, the link that was in there was very dangerous and would likely come apart on a bump.  It was replaced with a regular old non separating chain.  I feel safer this way.

No new cassette.  No new chain rings.  Glad to her 12k is low for new rings.  I don't plan on replacing them anytime soon.

Amazon gave me my money back for the links, I'm returning the pliers.

Anyone want the 10sp KMC links?

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9 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

I wanted an easier way to keep everything clean.

Brought it to the shop, he agreed, the link that was in there was very dangerous and would likely come apart on a bump.  It was replaced with a regular old non separating chain.  I feel safer this way.

No new cassette.  No new chain rings.  Glad to her 12k is low for new rings.  I don't plan on replacing them anytime soon.

Amazon gave me my money back for the links, I'm returning the pliers.

Anyone want the 10sp KMC links?

Well, lesson learned (and confirmed).

Tom

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21 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

So, silly me, I thought I'd pretend I knew what I was doing.

I bought some KMC quick links.  

Got off to a bad start and removed the wrong link from the chain, so I had to remove two more to get it in.

It went together way too easy.  All I did was pull it and it slid in place, no force, no clicking.

Now my chain is too short and I'm afraid it will come apart when I'm riding.

Will I die?

These dudes will be able to help you.  They know chain.

chain+gang.jpg

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On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 10:43 AM, Longjohn said:

I thought you were only supposed to keep a carbon fiber bike three years?:scratchhead:

:runcirclsmiley:

Other materials break as well.  My husband has broken a lot of bikes.  Some were aluminum, some were steel.  They all can break.  Carbon is a very strong material.  I wish I had a video showing all the crashes that my first carbon stumpy took and nothing broke it.  The bike is still running today, under another rider.  He loves it. 

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