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Wet basement blues


shotgun

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So, we had a good 14 inch base of snow that melted fast, followed by a few days of rain. There's a lot of ground water running into my sump pump. Unfortunately, when I was out of the state this week, we had a catastrophic failure. The check valve in the drain pipe exiting the house decided to get stuck shut. All of the ground water started filling up the basement overnight. My wife woke up to 5 inches of water in some parts of the basement, while the sump pump was busily trying to pump the water that was going nowhere.

 

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2 minutes ago, shotgun said:

So, we had a good 14 inch base of snow that melted fast, followed by a few days of rain. There's a lot of ground water running into my sump pump. Unfortunately, when I was out of the state this week, we had a catastrophic failure. The check valve in the drain pipe exiting the house decided to get stuck shut. All of the ground water started filling up the basement overnight. My wife woke up to 5 inches of water in some parts of the basement, while the sump pump was busily trying to pump the water that was going nowhere.

 

Well that sux.  

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3 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

Hope you have good home insurance.  :whistle:

Might not matter.  Our power went out a bunch of years ago, got about a foot of water in the basement.  Many items trashed, including some expensive tools.

Insurance company said they'd only repair the finished parts of the basement.  None of it's finished.  They said tough luck on the tools and other ruined items.

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I'm sorry about the flood - did you incur a lot of damage?

We are looking at having a portion of our basement finished - but I think we will get a sump pump with battery backup first.

We've taken on water in the basement twice - once during a power outage, and once when the pump had failed and I didn't realize it.

We've only had a check valve fail the other way - definitely the better way, since all that happened was that all the water in the stack above the pump just drained back down into the sump when the pump stopped.

I think it's been a few years since the pump has run as frequently as it has the last few weeks.  Tons of rain.

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32 minutes ago, TrentonMakes said:

I think we will get a sump pump with battery backup first

If you're on a municipal water supply you can get a backup pump that uses water to pump water.  It does use a lot of water in relation to what it pumps, and it will drive your water bill up, but that could be better than having a flooded basement.

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2 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

If you're on a municipal water supply you can get a backup pump that uses water to pump water.  It does use a lot of water in relation to what it pumps, and it will drive your water bill up, but that could be better than having a flooded basement.

I had heard about those at some point, but apparently forgot.... what I do remember is seeing a lot of battery backup systems with really bad ratings.  Thanks.

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2 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

If you're on a municipal water supply you can get a backup pump that uses water to pump water.  It does use a lot of water in relation to what it pumps, and it will drive your water bill up, but that could be better than having a flooded basement.

I was going to post that, but as usual, TK is there with the sensible answer pronto!  I have battery backup and it is weak.  Better than nothing, but  just barely. :D

 

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2 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

I know someone in a similar situation to yours, TM.  They had a battery back up and a water powered back up installed.  The battery back up came on first and held its own until the battery ran out.  Then the water powered back up came on and saved the basement.

I have a sump pump with a battery backup but not water backup. I probably need to test the battery as I haven't done so in a couple of years. My sump pump is in a crawl space. The water level is so high here that no one has a basement.

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When I moved into this house I didn't realize that the basement was wet (August).  During the wet season I found out that we were pumping out a yard square sump pump hole every 15 min. We are sitting on clay/ledge about 3 ft under the ground so basically ground water from the hills around us is going through the yard on top of that clay and filling the bowl that the house foundation makes.  I was always afraid that the sump pump would not work either through a power outage or a pump failure.  Sooner or later you will flood that way.

In the early 90's before I finished the basement we had a passive drain system installed under the basement floor around the walls feeding across my yard and part of my neighbors yard to a town culvert that is below the level of my basement (6" pipe).  The first time we had a really wet season I measured approximately 180 gallons per hour flow.  It's passive though so it drains without pumps or power.  The only trouble I've had was a few years ago when I had a root intrusion blocking the pipe enough to raise the water level to just flush with the basement floor.  I kept it from flooding with a powered sump pump till the roots could be cut out.  The offending tree is gone but I still check.

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5 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

We had a maintenance man where I worked we called him Hammer Heckman, you could always tell when he had been working on something by all the hammer marks on it.

Many many years ago, when I was a computer technician for Heath/Zenith, we used Heathkit oscilloscopes. One model was known for its ability to frequently lose its trace. A whack on the side with a rubber handled screwdriver always solved the problem.

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33 minutes ago, shotgun said:

Many many years ago, when I was a computer technician for Heath/Zenith, we used Heathkit oscilloscopes. One model was known for its ability to frequently lose its trace. A whack on the side with a rubber handled screwdriver always solved the problem.

Fonz!  I have the touch with the digital vending machine to clear the error.; :D  They owe me!

 

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1 hour ago, shotgun said:

Many many years ago, when I was a computer technician for Heath/Zenith, we used Heathkit oscilloscopes. One model was known for its ability to frequently lose its trace. A whack on the side with a rubber handled screwdriver always solved the problem.

We had to chart everything we did to the equipment when I worked in the hospital. They didn't like us to say we hit something, so we came up with the term percussive maintenance. We would write, "After the application of percussive maintenance, normal function resumed." Translation - "I hit it and it started working."

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In my early computer days we had core memory modules which had a specified "percussive test" using a calibrated tool to apply the exact level of shock test.  We had so many failures after performing this test as part of the preventive maintenance that we stopped doing it and the computers worked better/longer.

For you youngsters, core memory consisted of many many little magnetic rings with wires going through them at right angles.  energizing one wire would create a 1 status and energizing the other would turn the ring to 0.  I assume that the "percussive test" was to ascertain whether or not the memory could withstand the nearby walking of a dinosaur.

And yes, we collected data on jet engine tests on a computer with a grand total of 32K of memory while fitting into the volumn of a modern car.

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I need a small pump that can draw water down close to the floor, and preferably turn off when dry. I'm just getting about 10 gallons per hour seeping into the basement that we have to keep sucking up with a wet vac so it doesn't migrate into the carpet.

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4 hours ago, shotgun said:

I need a small pump that can draw water down close to the floor, and preferably turn off when dry. I'm just getting about 10 gallons per hour seeping into the basement that we have to keep sucking up with a wet vac so it doesn't migrate into the carpet.

There are pumps you can set on a level floor that will pick up (so they say) down to 1/4" of water.  Be cautious, as some of these will shut off automatically but do not start automatically.  You have to start them manually which is different from the typical sump pump.

I would suggest, if you can, confining or directing the incoming water with a barrier ~8" high to create an above-the-slab 'sump' that a pump can sit in.  If you can do this, it will keep the water away from the carpet, create depth of water that a sump pump can pick up, and it won't matter if a 1/4 - 1/2" remains behind the barrier.

It probably wouldn't be pretty, and would probably take some tubes of caulk to make a barrier watertight to the walls and floor, but it may be better than a using a shop vac.

I've found for a caulk this stuff seals pretty well under wet conditions, but it's messy:

image.png.b7d0c167b4b7b539588686e8d5d26da6.png

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19 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

I would suggest, if you can, confining or directing the incoming water with a barrier ~8" high to create an above-the-slab 'sump' that a pump can sit in.  If you can do this, it will keep the water away from the carpet, create depth of water that a sump pump can pick up, and it won't matter if a 1/4 - 1/2" remains behind the barrier.

 

This has been discussed and considered. But, it can't be that high because it is where the furnace and water heater live. And, what to use?

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3 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

The prior owners put in two sump areas.  One almost never gets water so I've never done anything there.  They both have what looks like a chimney flue.  The bottom is just dirt.  The water is nice and clear when it comes in, probably being filtered by the dirt.

sump water is vegan.  You should drink it.

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1 hour ago, shotgun said:

This has been discussed and considered. But, it can't be that high because it is where the furnace and water heater live. And, what to use?

If you would, please post some pictures of the area of the basement where the water is entering and of the area around furnace and water heater, or send me them in a PM if you prefer.  I take a look and see if I can make some suggestions.

In the meantime a string of these

PRD_PIG210_ISET?$large$

might help form a temporary barrier between the water and the carpet that could give you some extra time in case you can't vacuum up the water as often as you need.

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I would suggest trying to find the low spot in the floor, and, if it is in an area where you can do so, cut a hole in the concrete and put in a sump (with drain cover).  If it is not in an area where you can do this, you may need to add a layer to the floor to change the low spot so you can put in a sump.

 

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25 minutes ago, Digital_photog said:

Been running 2  one hp pumps with 2 inch lines for over a week now. We have been keeping up  but the floor has water running over it to the pumps. we are pumping about 10000 gallons per hour. If it wasn't for the pumps we would have 3 to 4 feet of water in the basement.

Woah!

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2 hours ago, Digital_photog said:

Been running 2  one hp pumps with 2 inch lines for over a week now. We have been keeping up  but the floor has water running over it to the pumps. we are pumping about 10000 gallons per hour. If it wasn't for the pumps we would have 3 to 4 feet of water in the basement.

 

If your power goes out, you may need a Plan B:

 

81dhsbMTHML._SL1000_.jpg

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My basement manged to stay dry this weekend.  5th weekend in a row of rain or snow.

The foundation for my fireplace, in the crawl space about 2 feet higher than the basement fills up pretty regularly.  I put one of those pump down to 1/4" pumps in there with no shutoff.  It's plugged into a smart plug with a routine that turns it back off after a specified number of minutes

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3 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

 

If your power goes out, you may need a Plan B:

 

81dhsbMTHML._SL1000_.jpg

I think that is plan  E.  B is the inverter and batteries that will run the pumps about 15 minutes. C is the generator that I have 15 minutes to get started (see plan B) D is the big gas powered pump that can pump more than both the electric combined.

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1 hour ago, Digital_photog said:

I think that is plan  E.  B is the inverter and batteries that will run the pumps about 15 minutes. C is the generator that I have 15 minutes to get started (see plan B) D is the big gas powered pump that can pump more than both the electric combined.

If you plumb the output of the pump to a water wheel, you'll only need the battery to run the pump for a minute !

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