OK with the TRU thead and the discussion of B&M

[Kzoo]

I have a question.  Who here has an Amazon Prime membership - I do.

 

[jsharr ★]

me too!  And I have one at work too!

[Square Wheels]

My wife does, she added me as a family member, so I guess I do too.

[ChrisL]

My daughter does.  Wife and I rarely order via Amazon but we have.

[Parr8hed]

yes

[Razors Edge ★]

Of course.

Tom

[maddmaxx ★]

Yes.

Free shipping and access to Amazon from my Roku TV.  Access to Alexa music etc.

[Green Grass]

I  do.

[Page Turner]

...I don't.  Like @Goat Geddah sez, I'm one of those "special" people.

[Scrapr ★]

Mother fokker. You just have to dig the knife in don't you. The borg has my account messed up. So I am charged for a Pr!me membership but can't access it. They can't find my "other" account though. 

I hate meces to pieces and I hate Amazon  

sorry for the strong language. My filter overflowith

[Kzoo]

2 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Mother fokker. You just have to dig the knife in don't you. The borg has my account messed up. So I am charged for a Pr!me membership but can't access it. They can't find my "other" account though. 

I hate meces to pieces and I hate Amazon  

sorry for the strong language. My filter overflowith

Sorry to mess up your day.  I don't mind messing up Jsharr's day or Maxx's day or Paige's day and certainly not SW's day, but I didn't mean to mess up your day.

 

[12string]

I did, cancelled it.  If they change some policies, I'll renew it.  Pays off at Christmastime, and one click ordering with free 2 day shipping is worth it.

[dinneR ★]

Not me.

Can someone explain how $100 year is free shipping? Isn't $100/year for shipping plus streaming?

[Ralphie ★]

Just now, dennis said:

Not me.

Can someone explain how $100 year is free shipping? Isn't $100/year for shipping plus streaming?

Yes, prepaid is a better adjective.

[dinneR ★]

Just now, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

Yes, prepaid is a better adjective.

It seems like amazon spends $80mil/year on marketing and people believe whatever they spew. Biggest selection, lowest prices, free shipping. Doesn't have to be true if you say it loud enough and often enough, people believe it. 

[Green Grass]

25 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...I don't.  Like @Goat Geddah sez, I'm one of those "special" people.

I wouldn't mind a world without Amazon, as I think they are getting away with murder...particularly of small retailers.  I remember the gov't trying to break up Micro-soft some time in the past, but have never heard a peep about Amazon.  I think they spent about 15 to 20 years trampling all over anti-trust law.

In the end, the convenience of one click ordering and their digital content...if it's there why pass it up?

And "special"?  Yes Page, "special" it is!

[Ralphie ★]

8 minutes ago, Goat Geddah said:

I wouldn't mind a world without Amazon, as I think they are getting away with murder...particularly of small retailers.  I remember the gov't trying to break up Micro-soft some time in the past, but have never heard a peep about Amazon.  I think they spent about 15 to 20 years trampling all over anti-trust law.

In the end, the convenience of one click ordering and their digital content...if it's there why pass it up?

And "special"?  Yes Page, "special" it is!

It seems like they do have some magic potion!  I wonder if part  of it is because they don't piss people off like Microsoft does by being a pain in the butt, or like Comcast does by charging an arm and a leg.  They are pretty darn user friendly.

[maddmaxx ★]

40 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Mother fokker. You just have to dig the knife in don't you. The borg has my account messed up. So I am charged for a Pr!me membership but can't access it. They can't find my "other" account though. 

I hate meces to pieces and I hate Amazon  

sorry for the strong language. My filter overflowith

Their customer service won't fix it for you?

[dinneR ★]

8 minutes ago, Goat Geddah said:

I wouldn't mind a world without Amazon, as I think they are getting away with murder...particularly of small retailers.  I remember the gov't trying to break up Micro-soft some time in the past, but have never heard a peep about Amazon.  I think they spent about 15 to 20 years trampling all over anti-trust law.

In the end, the convenience of one click ordering and their digital content...if it's there why pass it up?

And "special"?  Yes Page, "special" it is!

So true. We gave them the farm and allowed them to run others out of business with tax breaks because they needed protection. Bezos is one of the richest people in the world and amazon is one of the largest retailers in the world, but they need government protection. 

I do give them credit for being good at what they do. Customers love them. As a supplier, they suck. so much bs. The site is full of fraud and they know it. They're hoping you don't check your cc statement to closely. 

[Longjohn ★]

A don’t have Amazon Prime. I don’t believe in paying to shop. Their free shipping kicks in at $25. It’s hard to buy much for less than $25. If I want something that is only $20 I just add some energy gel to the order to bring it up to $25. Most stuff arrives in a few days. Chinese stuff takes longer. It’s all one click when you are signed in.

[Green Grass]

18 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

It seems like they do have some magic potion! 

Yeah, like the time at 10:30 at night when I realized I was almost out of diapers for #5 and while sitting there I open Amazon, order them and they are on my door step next day.  Cheaper than going to Safeway and getting them.  What's not to like as a consumer?

 

I've discussed before that I'm a supplier to Amazon as well.  They are perpetually and relentlessly pushing me to do things that I think are violations of the Robinson Patman Act.  They don't care...that's my problem.   So, I play their game and through a bit of sleight of hand directed in Amazon's direction, I manage to stay clean with all my other customers.  

 

 

[Green Grass]

21 minutes ago, dennis said:

The site is full of fraud and they know it.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here.  You mentioned it once before and I meant to follow up, but forgot.

[Razors Edge ★]

35 minutes ago, dennis said:

but they need government protection. 

I'm not sure what government protection Amazon receives solely, but if you are speaking more broadly (like sales tax), it is hard to put the blame on Amazon.  I'd assume they are lobbying for those broad advantages, but I don't see that as anything they get sole benefit from.

Tom

[dinneR ★]

53 minutes ago, Goat Geddah said:

I'm not sure what you are referring to here.  You mentioned it once before and I meant to follow up, but forgot.

https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Rice-Revolution/dp/B00SCUHTQS/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521666186&sr=1-3&keywords=wild+rice+revolution

Here is an example. This book does not exist. It never existed. It was never published. Amazon knows this. Yet, they do not remove the item from their site. I think they are hoping someone orders it and forgets when it does not arrive. The current price is outrageous, but imagine if it were $25 and you ordered it and forgot.

[Kzoo]

2 minutes ago, dennis said:

https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Rice-Revolution/dp/B00SCUHTQS/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521666186&sr=1-3&keywords=wild+rice+revolution

Here is an example. This book does not exist. It never existed. It was never published. Amazon knows this. Yet, they do not remove the item from their site. I think they are hoping someone orders it and forgets when it does not arrive. The current price is outrageous, but imagine if it were $25 and you ordered it and forgot.

 

Note: This item is only available from third-party sellers (see all offers).

 

 

 

 

 Report incorrect product information.

[Razors Edge ★]

7 minutes ago, dennis said:

https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Rice-Revolution/dp/B00SCUHTQS/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521666186&sr=1-3&keywords=wild+rice+revolution

Here is an example. This book does not exist. It never existed. It was never published. Amazon knows this. Yet, they do not remove the item from their site. I think they are hoping someone orders it and forgets when it does not arrive. The current price is outrageous, but imagine if it were $25 and you ordered it and forgot.

Or like this one:

Tom

[dinneR ★]

43 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I'm not sure what government protection Amazon receives solely, but if you are speaking more broadly (like sales tax), it is hard to put the blame on Amazon.  I'd assume they are lobbying for those broad advantages, but I don't see that as anything they get sole benefit from.

Tom

Correct, not solely amazon, but they are the largest beneficiary. They fought tooth and nail to avoid collecting sales tax. They are screwing certain states and counties byu not paying property taxes. Some places are now considering raising property taxes on residents and businesses to offset the cost of amazon.

And yes, they are most likely violating Robinson-Patman. It's difficult to prove. 

[dinneR ★]

5 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

 

Note: This item is only available from third-party sellers (see all offers).

 

 

 

 

 Report incorrect product information.

It has been reported multiple times. They do nothing about it.

[Kirby]

  I use it a lot when my Mom calls me and asks if I can get her something.  Two days later it's on her doorstep and I don't have to worry about remembering to get it when I go shopping on the weekend.

[maddmaxx ★]

2 hours ago, dennis said:

It seems like amazon spends $80mil/year on marketing and people believe whatever they spew. Biggest selection, lowest prices, free shipping. Doesn't have to be true if you say it loud enough and often enough, people believe it. 

For the things I buy from them, the prices are low and the selections are pretty good.  I just ordered an exotic 12 volt battery today that will be here Friday and I don't have to drive out of town to get one.  That reduces the price even more.

Actually it's a relatively common 12 volt battery but "exotic" can serve as a straight line for some sick joker.

Additionally, Amazon has proved to be a reliable pipeline to some hobby shops in Japan who have access to things I want that aren't available in this country most of the time.  Because my money goes through Amazon and non arrival is covered I'm better off buying through them.  Womaxx saves here school system tons of money each year when book replacements are ordered.  She has arranged for a special school account with them.

Sorry, but from my viewpoint much of what Amazon offers and says is true.

[Ralphie ★]

52 minutes ago, Kirby said:

  I use it a lot when my Mom calls me and asks if I can get her something.  Two days later it's on her doorstep and I don't have to worry about remembering to get it when I go shopping on the weekend.

There is a lot to be said for quick and easy!

 

[Longjohn ★]

2 hours ago, dennis said:

https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Rice-Revolution/dp/B00SCUHTQS/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521666186&sr=1-3&keywords=wild+rice+revolution

Here is an example. This book does not exist. It never existed. It was never published. Amazon knows this. Yet, they do not remove the item from their site. I think they are hoping someone orders it and forgets when it does not arrive. The current price is outrageous, but imagine if it were $25 and you ordered it and forgot.

It's pretty hard to forget you ordered something from Amazon. About the time it is supposed to be delivered they email you and ask you to rate the seller and the product. You don't have to rate them but it does remind you that you ordered something. My first set of kayak racks hadn't arrived by the time I received the request to rate the product. I checked the tracking and it said my racks had been delivered the day before in Boston, Mass. I told Amazon and they immediately credited my card and deleted the seller. I ordered a different set and they arrived a week later.

[Ralphie ★]

So it appears that Bezos has taken over the world.

 

[Page Turner]

 

3 hours ago, dennis said:

https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Rice-Revolution/dp/B00SCUHTQS/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521666186&sr=1-3&keywords=wild+rice+revolution

Here is an example. This book does not exist. It never existed. It was never published. Amazon knows this. Yet, they do not remove the item from their site. I think they are hoping someone orders it and forgets when it does not arrive. The current price is outrageous, but imagine if it were $25 and you ordered it and forgot.

 

3 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Or like this one:

Tom

 

3 hours ago, dennis said:

It has been reported multiple times. They do nothing about it.

...those pricing anomalies that you point out started showing up when people started using automated bot pricing algorithms.

I was in the used book world at the time, and recall some very interesting examples, but it was 8-10 years ago.

 

Those are sold to people (the pricing algorithms) by third parties, and I'm at a loss to see what Amazon could do about it.  It's a free market country, and sellers set their own prices.

Apparently the idea with books was to make certain your OOP book was the highest priced one, so when the others sold, you could hit the jackpot with the one remaining copy for sale.

 

Anyway, in the used book world of that time, every now and then competing sellers' bots would get into a war, and the price would end up at 25 or 50 thousand dollars.

We used to select out the most egregious examples and share them with each other.  It was kind of a kick, because Amazon had already pretty much taken the wind out of the sails of used book sellers everywhere, and that business never really returned to something you can do full time for a living any more. I was fortunate that i was not doing it for a living, but working for the Library Assn.

[Ralphie ★]

Page Turner, you get the Dilbert's Mother award.

 

[maddmaxx ★]

If you buy $10 cleat covers for $79 it's not Amazon that is your problem.

Shopping anywhere requires that you do at least a little work to establish what is a fair price and what is a deal.  This stuff doesn't get served like pablum.

[dinneR ★]

13 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

 

 

 

...those pricing anomalies that you point out started showing up when people started using automated bot pricing algorithms.

I was in the used book world at the time, and recall some very interesting examples, but it was 8-10 years ago.

 

Those are sold to people (the pricing algorithms) by third parties, and I'm at a loss to see what Amazon could do about it.  It's a free market country, and sellers set their own prices.

Apparently the idea with books was to make certain your OOP book was the highest priced one, so when the others sold, you could hit the jackpot with the one remaining copy for sale.

 

Anyway, in the used book world of that time, every now and then competing sellers' bots would get into a war, and the price would end up at 25 or 50 thousand dollars.

We used to select out the most egregious examples and share them with each other.  It was kind of a kick, because Amazon had already pretty much taken the wind out of the sails of used book sellers everywhere, and that business never really returned to something you can do full time for a living any more. I was fortunate that i was not doing it for a living, but working for the Library Assn.

It's not about the price. You can charge whatever you want for an item. My point is the book does not exist. It was never published. Amazon knows this, yet they allow third party sellers to list it on their site.

And yes, you can make a living selling books vs amazon, new and used books.

[Green Grass]

13 minutes ago, dennis said:

It's not about the price. You can charge whatever you want for an item. My point is the book does not exist. It was never published. Amazon knows this, yet they allow third party sellers to list it on their site.

I don't have anything to add, I just wanted to reiterate your point that seems to have gotten lost.

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, dennis said:

It's not about the price. You can charge whatever you want for an item. My point is the book does not exist. It was never published. Amazon knows this, yet they allow third party sellers to list it on their site.

And yes, you can make a living selling books vs amazon, new and used books.

...if you do a Google search, there are two pages of people offering it as a PDF download.  (I was curious)

That does not mean it exists, because the MN Historical Society site comes up empty.  I no longer subscribe to a books in print service.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why is this some sort of conspiracy on the part of Amazon to abet fraud ?

If I order something, and I don't get it from the seller (and this has happened to me before), they're pretty good about refunding my money.

1 hour ago, Goat Geddah said:

I don't have anything to add, I just wanted to reiterate your point that seems to have gotten lost.

...no, you don't.  Unsurprising.

[dinneR ★]

1 hour ago, Page Turner said:

...if you do a Google search, there are two pages of people offering it as a PDF download.  (I was curious)

That does not mean it exists, because the MN Historical Society site comes up empty.  I no longer subscribe to a books in print service.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why is this some sort of conspiracy on the part of Amazon to abet fraud ?

If I order something, and I don't get it from the seller (and this has happened to me before), they're pretty good about refunding my money.

...no, you don't.  Unsurprising.

You can google it all day. The book does not exist. I'm not sure how else to say it. It never existed. Amazon knows it does not exist. Why won't they remove it from their website. My point is this. If you are seller on amazon, you agree to their terms. One rule is you must possess the item you are listing for sale. That sounds basic, but a lot of sellers do not follow the rules. You can tell this to amazon reps and offer proof. They don't care. They just want their 15% plus fees. They knowingly allow sellers to list items for sale that the seller does not own.

I'm not a fan of amazon, but I recognize and acknowledge most people like the company and amazon does a good job of selling goods at low prices. They are not the lowest. You can often find the same stuff for less elsewhere, but amazon has made it easy and convenient. One stop shopping, all with one click. 

The tax issue is big. Why we allowed them to get away with this and continue to get away with it is beyond me. 

 

[maddmaxx ★]

If the local butcher offered to sell pork chops he didn't have for $2000 a lb would there be much fuss about it?

Unlikely.

People would probably take the offer with the grain of salt it deserves.

[Prophet Zacharia]

14 hours ago, dennis said:

https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Rice-Revolution/dp/B00SCUHTQS/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521666186&sr=1-3&keywords=wild+rice+revolution

Here is an example. This book does not exist. It never existed. It was never published. Amazon knows this. Yet, they do not remove the item from their site. I think they are hoping someone orders it and forgets when it does not arrive. The current price is outrageous, but imagine if it were $25 and you ordered it and forgot.

I’m not sure I follow.... you seemingly can buy it here. https://www.flyleafbooks.com/book/9780873519281

[Prophet Zacharia]

I’ve become an Amazon Pantry shopper. Cat food and cat litter delivered monthly, at 15% off. Much better than having hangry cats lurking around. And the dog gets a bag of grub delivered periodically, too.

[dinneR ★]

1 hour ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I’m not sure I follow.... you seemingly can buy it here. https://www.flyleafbooks.com/book/9780873519281

Please order a copy for me. I'll pay the $17.95 plus shipping. Seemingly is the key word there.

[Page Turner]

10 hours ago, dennis said:

You can google it all day. The book does not exist. I'm not sure how else to say it. It never existed. Amazon knows it does not exist. Why won't they remove it from their website. My point is this. If you are seller on amazon, you agree to their terms. One rule is you must possess the item you are listing for sale. That sounds basic, but a lot of sellers do not follow the rules. You can tell this to amazon reps and offer proof. They don't care. They just want their 15% plus fees. They knowingly allow sellers to list items for sale that the seller does not own.

I'm not a fan of amazon, but I recognize and acknowledge most people like the company and amazon does a good job of selling goods at low prices. They are not the lowest. You can often find the same stuff for less elsewhere, but amazon has made it easy and convenient. One stop shopping, all with one click. 

The tax issue is big. Why we allowed them to get away with this and continue to get away with it is beyond me. 

 

...I did not say the book had been printed.  Perhaps you missed what I said. I said that if I order from them (third party) and the stuff doesn't show up, they refund my money.

Regardless, I genuinely do not understand how anyone makes money from charging 15% fees on a sale that will not happen.  Please explain the logic in this, I don't get it.

It would apply to any item listed for sale that cannot be delivered by the third party vendor.

 

BTW, I'm not particularly a fan of Amazon.  They've contributed enormously to the death of many small local specialty businesses like  bookstores and local bike shops.

I just really do not understand why something listed for sale on the website that doesn't exist makes any difference.

[maddmaxx ★]

Does Amazon charge for the listing as a percentage of the asking price?  I think Ebay does this but I'm not sure. If they do then the practice of third party sellers highballing prices should be self limiting.

Either that or there are some amazingly stupid people shopping on Amazon who would pay outrageous prices.

[Page Turner]

Interestingly, that Wild Rice cookbook guy has a GoFundMe page.

I can see how that might work as a scam, just not the Amazon listings.

[dinneR ★]

18 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...I did not say the book had been printed.  Perhaps you missed what I said. I said that if I order from them (third party) and the stuff doesn't show up, they refund my money.

Regardless, I genuinely do not understand how anyone makes money from charging 15% fees on a sale that will not happen.  Please explain the logic in this, I don't get it.

It would apply to any item listed for sale that cannot be delivered by the third party vendor.

 

BTW, I'm not particularly a fan of Amazon.  They've contributed enormously to the death of many small local specialty businesses like used bookstores and local bike shops.

I just really do not understand why something listed for sale on the website that doesn't exist makes any difference.

The book was not printed. It might be self-published at some point.

These are fishing scams. Just like email fishing scams. The difference is amazon is aware of it and they choose to do nothing about it. People are using their site for a fishing scam. It's probably not a big deal, but it exists. People get bitten and forget they made a purchase. It happens. 

Maxx-forget the price, really, it does not matter if it were $20. You are missing the point.

Amazon does most things very well, that's why they are successful. I don't use them. They won't miss my business as I'm not much of a consumer. About the only things I've purchased this year other than food is ski equipment. I can do better shopping locally than on amazon. Groceries I buy locally. There are two stores within two blocks of my place. I walk. I avoid packaged items and I'd rather not buy produce online. 

Here is an example of a tax break they received that I find kind of silly. I think the officials allowing this to happen are not serving their constituents well. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-26/amazon-is-getting-a-good-deal-in-ohio-maybe-too-good

 

[Page Turner]

...we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Fishing scams are not based on people forgetting what they ordered.

A book that doesn't exist listed at 50 times the "publisher's" price is not a fishing scam in my worldview. I could be mistaken.

[dinneR ★]

18 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Fishing scams are not based on people forgetting what they ordered.

A book that doesn't exist listed at 50 times the "publisher's" price is not a fishing scam in my worldview. I could be mistaken.

I guess I did a poor job of communicating here. I'm not sure how else to say it other than to restate what I've said before(3 times now?). Ignore the price. I've seen the price on this book be listed for $20-50, now $1700. This is just one example, there are plenty of others. My point and I'll restate it again, but it gets ignored, is that amazon knowingly allows sellers to falsely list items for sale on their site. 

The larger issue, in my opinion, is the tax issue. Property tax, sales tax, the EU tax problems.

I'm not trying to change anyone's shopping habits, just pointing out some reasons I don't shop there. I like local businesses. They offer service and convenience that I appreciate. And at the end of the day, I shop so little. I live a very simple and frugal existence.