Took a chainsaw training class this weekend. - AMA!

[Reverend_Maynard]

Seven us from QCNEMBA and RINEMBA took a chainsaw training class this weekend.  This allows us to get permission from the state to use chainsaws when necessary for trail clean-up, maintenance, and building.  The class was taught by Bill Girard, a Game of Logging instructor.  Some techniques were quite different than what most of us learned growing up.  For me, it was  my first time using a chainsaw at all, so I had more trouble with basic techniques than my classmates, but I still had a good time, learned a lot, and feel capable of handling a saw in the future.  All of my classmates said they felt a lot safer using the new techniques, so mission accomplished there.  You may not think of it as such, but the chainsaw is really one of the most dangerous machines most of us will ever use.

The felling technique is basically to create an open faced notch (shallower and with a wider angle than the more traditional technique), a bore cut behind that to form the hinge, and then various techniques for the back cut based on the lean of the tree.  Using it, we were all able to calmly and safely drop 50' maples within a couple of feet of the target on our first attempt.

The survivors...

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

You may not think of it as such, but the chainsaw is really one of the most dangerous machines most of us will ever use.

There is a reason professional timber folks have one of the deadliest jobs on record.  If it ain't the saw, it's the falling tree, some random branch, or god knows what else.

I like your reason for taking the class, though. 

Tom

[TrentonMakes]

I only very briefly used a chain saw, with my dad when I was a teenager.  I emerged unscathed, but chain saw work is one job I will absolutely leave to the professionals.  It is indeed one scary machine.

[Dottleshead ★]

This explains your P&R posts, Rev.  Good stuff.

[jsharr ★]

Just watch some youtube videos and you will be fine

[Reverend_Maynard]

9 minutes ago, dotman17 said:

This explains your P&R posts, Rev.  Good stuff.

As usual, it seems, I don't get it...?

 

7 minutes ago, jsharr said:

Just watch some youtube videos and you will be fine

Depends on the video, I guess...

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Reverend_Maynard
Can't tell if gif is working...Replaced with youtube video

[Scrapr ★]

Town I grew up in was semi rural. Lots of logging (pre spotted owl). Use to see the crews going off early in the Crummies. They were pretty bad ass. 

Only saw i will touch is a 10" electric. With a dull blade

 

 

[Dottleshead ★]

34 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

Seven us from QCNEMBA and RINEMBA took a chainsaw training class this weekend.  This allows us to get permission from the state to use chainsaws when necessary for trail clean-up, maintenance, and building.  The class was taught by Bill Girard, a Game of Logging instructor.  Some techniques were quite different than what most of us learned growing up.  For me, it was  my first time using a chainsaw at all, so I had more trouble with basic techniques than my classmates, but I still had a good time, learned a lot, and feel capable of handling a saw in the future.  All of my classmates said they felt a lot safer using the new techniques, so mission accomplished there.  You may not think of it as such, but the chainsaw is really one of the most dangerous machines most of us will ever use.

The felling technique is basically to create an open faced notch (shallower and with a wider angle than the more traditional technique), a bore cut behind that to form the hinge, and then various techniques for the back cut based on the lean of the tree.  Using it, we were all able to calmly and safely drop 50' maples within a couple of feet of the target on our first attempt.

The survivors...

Indeed.  Chainsaws are very dangerous.  I just bought a new electrical one because i have simple work to do in my yard -- trees that are already fallen.  But my old man owned a gas powered one for years and they must always be handled with care.  I never, ever get sloppy with them and always take twice the time to use them.  I've had them kick back and that'll get your attention fast.

[Guest]

We have a similar program where we have volunteer groups doing trail work for us. I am a certified instructor and usually teach 3-4 classes a year. 

[Dottleshead ★]

2 minutes ago, Zackny said:

We have a similar program where we have volunteer groups doing trail work for us. I am a certified instructor and usually teach 3-4 classes a year. 

Buddy, you've gotta come down.  I'll be a fine student.

[Reverend_Maynard]

1 minute ago, dotman17 said:

Indeed.  Chainsaws are very dangerous.  I just bought a new electrical one because i have simple work to do in my yard -- trees that are already fallen.  But my old man owned a gas powered one for years and they must always be handled with care.  I never, ever get sloppy with them and always take twice the time to use them.  I've had them kick back and that'll get your attention fast.

Actually, from what I've heard, electrical can be more dangerous than gas.  They tend to be direct drive, without a clutch to allow the chain to stall out, and because of the power curve of electric motors (most torque at zero rpm), they won't stall out in a binding/pinching situation as easily as a gas saw.  That can lead to broken chains, which are very dangerous.  They are less likely to kickback because the chain is slower, and of course there's the gas and it's dangers, but they also have a cord you have to watch out for.

 

Still a good choice for an occasional user because they're easier to keep in running condition between uses, but don't get complacent because it's electric.

[Further]

I cut a lot of firewood, started as teenager cutting wood to sell. It's a miracle I have all my appendages.

My worst scare was dropping a big beech tree, about 3 feet in diameter. The saw had a 20 inch bar so it was little tricky, but it got scary when the tree began move way before I expected. Icut the notch and began working on the back cut, not even half way through the tree gave a groan, settled on the saw trapping it, then slowly rotated, before toppling over, in random direction.

The tree looked healthy as could be from the outside but inside was more rot than good wood. When I thought I was just starting in I had already cut most of the good wood, and the wood I was counting on the form the hinge was all punky and had no control over the tree. 

Probably happened 45 years ago & I still remember it.

[Dottleshead ★]

 

10 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

Actually, from what I've heard, electrical can be more dangerous than gas.  They tend to be direct drive, without a clutch to allow the chain to stall out, and because of the power curve of electric motors (most torque at zero rpm), they won't stall out in a binding/pinching situation as easily as a gas saw.  That can lead to broken chains, which are very dangerous.  They are less likely to kickback because the chain is slower, and of course there's the gas and it's dangers, but they also have a cord you have to watch out for.

 

Still a good choice for an occasional user because they're easier to keep in running condition between uses, but don't get complacent because it's electric.

Great points.  I don't want anything bad to happen.  I already had a hatchet slide down the block and into my finger -- causing permanent nerve damage.  In fact, I may return the saw and get a gas powered one now.  It hasn't been my year with machines.

[Dottleshead ★]

5 minutes ago, Further said:

I cut a lot of firewood, started as teenager cutting wood to sell. It's a miracle I have all my appendages.

My worst scare was dropping a big beech tree, about 3 feet in diameter. The saw had a 20 inch bar so it was little tricky, but it got scary when the tree began move way before I expected. Icut the notch and began working on the back cut, not even half way through the tree gave a groan, settled on the saw trapping it, then slowly rotated, before toppling over, in random direction.

The tree looked healthy as could be from the outside but inside was more rot than good wood. When I thought I was just starting in I had already cut most of the good wood, and the wood I was counting on the form the hinge was all punky and had no control over the tree. 

Probably happened 45 years ago & I still remember it.

Yeah, that's all it takes.  Usually mother nature does what we expect but there are no such laws that say it will.  Falling trees can be risky business.

[Reverend_Maynard]

Just now, Further said:

I cut a lot of firewood, started as teenager cutting wood to sell. It's a miracle I have all my appendages.

My worst scare was dropping a big beech tree, about 3 feet in diameter. The saw had a 20 inch bar so it was little tricky, but it got scary when the tree began move way before I expected. Icut the notch and began working on the back cut, not even half way through the tree gave a groan, settled on the saw trapping it, then slowly rotated, before toppling over, in random direction.

The tree looked healthy as could be from the outside but inside was more rot than good wood. When I thought I was just starting in I had already cut most of the good wood, and the wood I was counting on the form the hinge was all punky and had no control over the tree. 

Probably happened 45 years ago & I still remember it.

That's why they now teach the bore cut to start the hinge.  Leaves the back side of the tree uncut until the hinge is the right size.  The outer layers are most likely to be good wood, so less likely to be relying on punk wood to hold your tree up.  If you misread the front/back lean and cut straight out the back, it might pinch your saw, but it shouldn't fall the wrong way.

[Dottleshead ★]

1 hour ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

Seven us from QCNEMBA and RINEMBA took a chainsaw training class this weekend.  This allows us to get permission from the state to use chainsaws when necessary for trail clean-up, maintenance, and building.  The class was taught by Bill Girard, a Game of Logging instructor.  Some techniques were quite different than what most of us learned growing up.  For me, it was  my first time using a chainsaw at all, so I had more trouble with basic techniques than my classmates, but I still had a good time, learned a lot, and feel capable of handling a saw in the future.  All of my classmates said they felt a lot safer using the new techniques, so mission accomplished there.  You may not think of it as such, but the chainsaw is really one of the most dangerous machines most of us will ever use.

The felling technique is basically to create an open faced notch (shallower and with a wider angle than the more traditional technique), a bore cut behind that to form the hinge, and then various techniques for the back cut based on the lean of the tree.  Using it, we were all able to calmly and safely drop 50' maples within a couple of feet of the target on our first attempt.

The survivors...

 

Hey, Rev, which ugly bastard are you?

[donkpow]

How were the donuts?

[Reverend_Maynard]

2 minutes ago, dotman17 said:

 

Hey, Rev, which ugly bastard are you?

At the risk of unleashing the hounds of the internet who will use this pic to track me down and force me to do unspeakable things, the one in the black t-shirt, green chaps.

[Reverend_Maynard]

Just now, donkpow said:

How were the donuts?

The closest we came was discussion of "cookies": small pieces of wood used underneath wedges when you don't have enough wedges to get the width/height of wedges you're looking for.

[Dottleshead ★]

Glad to see those boys wearing flannels.  Used to be a PNW thing -- and still is I suppose -- but flannels aren't what they used to be.

[Reverend_Maynard]

1 minute ago, dotman17 said:

Glad to see those boys wearing flannels.  Used to be a PNW thing -- and still is I suppose -- but flannels aren't what they used to be.

Most of us have some "swamp yankee" in us that predisposes us to flannel.  Yes, I've purchased some disappointing flannel recently.

[goldendesign]

That seems informative and fun! I have very limited chainsaw experience. When I was a young pup we lived in a house in western MI that has a wood burning stove for its main source of heating. My father did all the cutting at my grandfathers property (100+ acres) and then took the already seasoned cords down with us when he felled that years dead wood.

He missed the mark on one and took it full in the face. Didn't knock his teeth outright but somehow knocked them flat against the roof of his mouth. A dentist neighbor about a mile down the road, luckily, was home. He grabbed some gloves and yanked them straight. The gush of bloody drool and yell of pain from my dad has forever tainted me to chainsaws.

My father, 25+ years after has a wonderful set of falsies up front.

[Reverend_Maynard]

2 minutes ago, goldendesign said:

That seems informative and fun! I have very limited chainsaw experience. When I was a young pup we lived in a house in western MI that has a wood burning stove for its main source of heating. My father did all the cutting at my grandfathers property (100+ acres) and then took the already seasoned cords down with us when he felled that years dead wood.

He missed the mark on one and took it full in the face. Didn't knock his teeth outright but somehow knocked them flat against the roof of his mouth. A dentist neighbor about a mile down the road, luckily, was home. He grabbed some gloves and yanked them straight. The gush of bloody drool and yell of pain from my dad has forever tainted me to chainsaws.

My father, 25+ years after has a wonderful set of falsies up front.

Ouch!  Do you know what he did wrong?  I assume it wasn't the saw itself that hit him.  Sounds like he cut something that was under tension and it sprung up and hit him.  Or, when felling, the butt end will often jump off the stump when then trunk hits.  That's why you get at least 15' away before admiring your handiwork.

We were told stories of guys who had their heads taken off, parts of their heads taken off, heads driven down directly between the feet, 18" into the ground, every kind of limb injury.  Really scary stuff that makes you think.

[goldendesign]

8 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

Do you know what he did wrong? 

I had to be 7 or 8 at the time and I think it was a tree already leaning/under tension so as he was cutting I remember the damn trunk jumping at him nailing him in the face. 

It is a dangerous, useful piece of equipment. I am glad you got the training.

[Reverend_Maynard]

2 minutes ago, goldendesign said:

I had to be 7 or 8 at the time and I think it was a tree already leaning/under tension so as he was cutting I remember the damn trunk jumping at him nailing him in the face. 

It is a dangerous, useful piece of equipment. I am glad you got the training.

Sounds like a spring pole (the crown end trapped under another fallen tree, bending it over). although the same can happen to limbs trapped under the tree.  We were taught a technique of weakening the compression side (the inside of the curve) slowly until the bend becomes a right-angle with no tension on it.  It's kind of cool to watch when you take out just enough wood and it takes several seconds to slowly release.

[Johnny Come Lately Name]

3 hours ago, dotman17 said:

flannels aren't what they used to be.

My grandfather used to have Pendelton shirts that I swear would stop a small caliber bullet. Last time I looked at them, you could damned near read the paper through them.

[Dottleshead ★]

29 minutes ago, F_in Ray Of Sunshine said:

My grandfather used to have Pendelton shirts that I swear would stop a small caliber bullet. Last time I looked at them, you could damned near read the paper through them.

Yeah, that's a good, hearty shirt.

[sheep_herder ★]

2 hours ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

Sounds like a spring pole (the crown end trapped under another fallen tree, bending it over). although the same can happen to limbs trapped under the tree.  We were taught a technique of weakening the compression side (the inside of the curve) slowly until the bend becomes a right-angle with no tension on it.  It's kind of cool to watch when you take out just enough wood and it takes several seconds to slowly release.

That is when you yell 'TIMBER'! I use to push for a sawyer on a fire crew. My room mate the first year on the fire crew set chokers on logs before he came to the fire crew. It sounded like a pretty scary job.  I've owned and still use a Stihl 028 WB since the late 70s.

[smudge ★]

I feel bad neither my Dad nor my grandparents taught me how to use a chainsaw. (Yes, my Nana used a chainsaw)  Glad to hear your training went well!

[Longjohn ★]

The only think I don't like about using a chain saw is when you are up in the tree using it. Too many bad things can happen but when you don't have a bucket truck you make do.

 

[Dottleshead ★]

37 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

 

 

I feel pretty confident in declaring this guy is a moron.

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, sheep_herder said:

That is when you yell 'TIMBER'! I use to push for a sawyer on a fire crew. My room mate the first year on the fire crew set chokers on logs before he came to the fire crew. It sounded like a pretty scary job.  I've owned and still use a Stihl 028 WB since the late 70s.

...setting chokers on a real industrial logging site, with a bunch of cable pull runs set up running every damn which way is, indeed, pretty nuts. Lots of moving parts.

We were just starting to use chain saws in the fire department my last six years or so there, after 150 years of "If a fire axe was good enough for grandad, you whiners ought to be able to do the job with one."

 

Using a chainsaw on a roof, in the dark, when it's raining gives you a whole new perspective on chain saw safety.  

 

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, Longjohn said:

The only think I don't like about using a chain saw is when you are up in the tree using it. 

 

...I think I still have my old tree climbing belt out in the garden shed somewhere.  Let me know if you need it again.

As I've taken down the larger trees at this house as they age out, I'm replanting with stuff that stays smaller and either bears fruit or has beautiful flowers.

 

Hey @Reverend_Maynard, I'm not sure I can prove it, but my impression is that the bulk of the bad "accidents" with chain saws come as a result of people who are using them for long hours getting lulled into a false sense of security because everything seems to be going well, and boy howdy a sharp chain on the right saw can really cut some wood.  Stay respectful out there, and stay out of the plane of kickback.

[Road Runner]

Chainsaw training in Texas...

[Johnny Come Lately Name]

9 hours ago, smudge said:

my Dad nor my grandparents taught me how to use a chainsaw

My dad taught me how not to use a chainsaw. Damned near took his arm off. 

[Longjohn ★]

2 minutes ago, F_in Ray Of Sunshine said:

My dad taught me how not to use a chainsaw. Damned near took his arm off. 

I taught my dad how to use a chainsaw. I also taught him what to buy for a chainsaw after the first one he bought at Sears or somewhere was supposed to be self sharpening and it had a button that you push and it puts a stone down on top of the chain while it's going around. One use of that button and the chain that didn't cut very good when new now won't cut at all. 

[Johnny Come Lately Name]

1 hour ago, Longjohn said:

I taught my dad how to use a chainsaw. I also taught him what to buy for a chainsaw after the first one he bought at Sears or somewhere was supposed to be self sharpening and it had a button that you push and it puts a stone down on top of the chain while it's going around. One use of that button and the chain that didn't cut very good when new now won't cut at all. 

Heh. Used to have a Sears and a McCullogh. The McCullogh I swore by, the Sears I swore at. 

My dad found out about some deal where the state would pay you to improve your woodlot. They’d come in, mark the trees for thinning and you had to have them down by a certain date. We were cutting one day and I heard him call me. I was immediately struck by the sound of fear in his voice. That makes an immediate impression on a fourteen year old boy. The saw had kicked back and caught him across his left forearm. I had to get him over to the neighbors’ and they took him to get stitched up. He only ever told my mother about the thirteen stitches she could see. He never told her about the ones underneath....

[Guest]

 

[Longjohn ★]

23 minutes ago, F_in Ray Of Sunshine said:

1 hour ago, Longjohn said:

Heh. Used to have a Sears and a McCullogh. The McCullogh I swore by, the Sears I swore at. 

 

McCulloghs were a very good saw before they started making those department store versions for people that don’t need to do a lot of cutting. I had a big commercial McCullogh when I was in charge of maintenance at a summer camp/retreat center. When I left that job I knew what kind of saw I wanted. I found a dealer but he didn’t stock commercial saws. He ordered one for me, two months later he still didn’t have it so I bought a Huskavarna. The next day he called me to say my saw was in. He was pizzed when I told him I didn’t need it. The Husky is also a great saw.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

McCulloghs were a very good saw before they started making those department store versions for people that don’t need to do a lot of cutting. I had a big commercial McCullogh when I was in charge of maintenance at a summer camp/retreat center. When I left that job I knew what kind of saw I wanted. I found a dealer but he didn’t stock commercial saws. He ordered one for me, two months later he still didn’t have it so I bought a Huskavarna. The next day he called me to say my saw was in. He was pizzed when I told him I didn’t need it. The Husky is also a great saw.

 

[Wilbur ★]

 

[Reverend_Maynard]

Can't see much of the technique, but it's hard to argue with these results...

(probably just skip to the last 30 seconds or so)

 

[MickinMD ★]

I had a dead, 60 year-old, vase-shaped Canadian Maple tree that had three about 30-foot high main branches rising above a 6 foot high trunk that was over 4 feet in diameter.

I decided I'd cut it down myself with my brother-in-law's chain saw.  I tied a rope tightly to another tree to ensure the 30' branch I'd cut first wouldn't come anywhere close to my enclosed back porch.  With excellent math skills I was sure I could work out where on each tree to tie the rope, etc.

After cutting a notch in the lower side - carefully aimed away from the porch, I used a hand saw and slowly cut through the higher side of the branch. Finally, it began to snap and fell - missing my porch by just 2 feet!

The other two branches were leaning a little over my neighbors garage. I decided my skills weren't enough to risk doing the rest myself, especially since I have to cut from high off the ground to ensure only short lengths at-a-time were involved!

[Wilbur ★]

When I was building a house in Pender Harbour, a BC coastal community, the faller I hired to clear the lot had so many spinal fusions from logging accidents he got out of his truck and laid down on the ground to estimate the tree height.   Old bugger had no problem scaling the trees to top them and tie lines off.