Did you ever make a U-turn on the interstate?

[TrentonMakes]

I mean, through one of those median openings (the ones that always have the "no U-turn" sign?

I haven't as a regular motorist, though I have used them for work.  Even then, in a vehicle with yellow flashing rooftop lights, they are generally pretty hairy - the oncoming traffic in the left lane is the fastest and they typically aren't expecting U-turn traffic.  I seem to see a lot of this on 95 in Maryland for some reason.

You may have heard that there was a serious crash on I-80 in north Jersey yesterday , involving a dump truck and a school bus, which killed a student and a teacher.  At this point they believe the bus driver missed the exit, and had slowed to enter a median U-turn opening when the dump truck hit it.  It separated the body of the bus from the chassis, and from seeing the pictures if only two people were killed it's a miracle.

The next exit down the road is about 6 miles away, so it probably would have cost them 15 minutes.... clearly it would have been worth it.  So sad..... multiple lives ruined.

 

I put on my traffic engineer hat to say:  Please - if you miss your exit continue on down the road and make a U-turn when it's safe to do so.

 

[Square Wheels]

?

[Parr8hed]

Holy shit.  I just saw a crash in front of my dad's house yesterday.  Ford SUV attempting a u turn in front of a 18 wheeler.  The SUV lost.

[Parr8hed]

 

[donkpow]

I saw that on the morning news today. It made me sick to hear the cause of the accident. If I have ever made a u-turn on the highway, it was a very, very long time ago. First of all, it's an illegal maneuver. Secondly, it's dangerous as hell. You see all the time somebody jumps lanes at the last minute, u-turns in an intersection ... Stupid, stupid people. I made it a practice to go on down to the next safe place to turn around and make the necessary turn. A professional driver should know better.

[Kzoo]

I know I have made a U turn on an divided highway but it has been decades since.  I have matured since then.  I've missed exits and the next one is the best option.  I see other people doing them and wonder....  We have an exit I pass every day that only has north bound entry and south bound exit - there for a highway garage.  I regularly see people enter north bound and use the u-turn to then go south there.  Scary.

[Tizeye]

Yes, but not at the opening designed for law enforcement...but solid grassy area. Traffic on my side was stopped and visible for miles ahead. Quick re-calculation told me could get on the secondary (formerly primary) highway the Interstate replaced at exit just passed. Light traffic in other direction and I knew my truck would clear anything in the median.

[maddmaxx ★]

I made a U-turn once on the multi lane Virginia Beach Expressway for work purposes as instructed by a VA State Policeman and promptly got a ticket from a different one.

It was night.  I was taking a stranded driver back to his car with a can of gas from the station I worked at on the end of the highway.  No traffic, a safe turn in and then I wated as 3 approaching cars went past.......except the last one didn't.  He pulled in front of me flashers on and in spite of the explanation wrote me a ticket for reckless driving with the words "don't to what a policeman tells you to if it's illegal."

Went to court prepared to fight it when the judge looked over the top of his head high bench and asked the policeman "At any time you observed the car did it move?"

"No"

"Well, I don't rightly see how you can write the man a ticket for reckless driving if the car never moved".

[pedalphile]

5 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

I made a U-turn once on the multi lane Virginia Beach Expressway for work purposes as instructed by a VA State Policeman and promptly got a ticket from a different one.

It was night.  I was taking a stranded driver back to his car with a can of gas from the station I worked at on the end of the highway.  No traffic, a safe turn in and then I wated as 3 approaching cars went past.......except the last one didn't.  He pulled in front of me flashers on and in spite of the explanation wrote me a ticket for reckless driving with the words "don't to what a policeman tells you to if it's illegal."

Went to court prepared to fight it when the judge looked over the top of his head high bench and asked the policeman "At any time you observed the car did it move?"

"No"

"Well, I don't rightly see how you can write the man a ticket for reckless driving if the car never moved".

HaHa Maxx, nice one the Judge, I like it when scents prevails. Oh and btw, our Motorways don't have these gaps in the central reservation that you talk of, so this type of thing cannot happen here.

[2Far ★]

Don't think so, but I've been driving a long, long time.

I had a co-worker nearly killed by someone making the illegal turn.

[maddmaxx ★]

8 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

HaHa Maxx, nice one the Judge, I like it when scents prevails. Oh and btw, our Motorways don't have these gaps in the central reservation that you talk of, so this type of thing cannot happen here.

Oh, you never quite get away in the VA court system.  I had to settle for an improper turn $10 and $7.50 court costs.  Worse, while I was getting the ticket, the customer filled his gas tank and left with my gas can.

It was probably the best i was going to get as I made the trip in the Daytona because we didn't have a service truck.  That was like a red flag.

[Longjohn ★]

I did it once in my big rig. Stinking wrecker driver wouldn’t take my card so I had to follow him back to his garage to swipe my card.

[TrentonMakes]

followup:  this morning they are reporting that the bus was re-entering I-80 from an onramp, and dove across the three westbound lanes for the median opening.  Like this:

It was hard enough to comprehend the driver's actions when they thought he just missed his exit from I-80.  No one can figure out why he was re-entering 80 from this ramp, and the dive into the U-turn is even more puzzling.

Killed were a 10-year old girl and a 51-year old teacher.

[donkpow]

Crazy.

[Wilbur ★]

34 minutes ago, TrentonMakes said:

followup:  this morning they are reporting that the bus was re-entering I-80 from an onramp, and dove across the three westbound lanes for the median opening.  Like this:

It was hard enough to comprehend the driver's actions when they thought he just missed his exit from I-80.  No one can figure out why he was re-entering 80 from this ramp, and the dive into the U-turn is even more puzzling.

Killed were a 10-year old girl and a 51-year old teacher.

Wow!  The bus driver survived? 

[Wilbur ★]

Problem with U turns, legal or not, is that in-trail traffic rarely leaves a safe distance for them to be carried out.  I have often wondered why we haven't developed a U turn signal for cars.  One more click each direction on the signal lever and maybe that also activates a yellow turn signal with a red.  ??  What do I know? I am neither a traffic nor auto engineer. 

 

[donkpow]

The place for a u-turn on a limited access highway is at the next interchange. It's really simple and the methodology is clear.

[maddmaxx ★]

It seems that a very large lawsuit payout is looming.

[Indy]

Yeah, I always go up to the next exit and turn around there.  Annoys me when people do it because yes, it's often a hairy situation because you have no time to get up to speed, no merge lane and people in the left lane aren't expecting slow moving traffic.

[Indy]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

Problem with U turns, legal or not, is that in-trail traffic rarely leaves a safe distance for them to be carried out.  I have often wondered why we haven't developed a U turn signal for cars.  One more click each direction on the signal lever and maybe that also activates a yellow turn signal with a red.  ??  What do I know? I am neither a traffic nor auto engineer. 

 

Signals, while telling other drivers your intentions, doesn't change who is responsible for carrying out the actions safely.  Nothing drives me more nuts that people who flip on their turn signals and seem to think that automatically means I'm supposed to slam on my brakes and let you move over (amazing how bad semi's are about this anymore, yet they get irate when people do it to them).  No, drivers are not required to slow up and let you over and it is the driver who's changing lanes responsibility to do it safely.

[Wilbur ★]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

Signals, while telling other drivers your intentions, doesn't change who is responsible for carrying out the actions safely.  Nothing drives me more nuts that people who flip on their turn signals and seem to think that automatically means I'm supposed to slam on my brakes and let you move over (amazing how bad semi's are about this anymore, yet they get irate when people do it to them).  No, drivers are not required to slow up and let you over and it is the driver who's changing lanes responsibility to do it safely.

I agree.  I also think it is a good idea if that signal made clear your intent.  Turning is one thing, a U turn is different.  Throws peoples timing thus the spacial orientation thing out of whack.  I am not talking Interstates here, just in general. 

[Indy]

1 minute ago, Wilbur said:

I agree.  I also think it is a good idea if that signal made clear your intent.  Turning is one thing, a U turn is different.  Throws peoples timing thus the spacial orientation thing out of whack.  I am not talking Interstates here, just in general. 

Well on a U Turn, just think of it as two left turns, so you need to signal twice.  If there is a median, it really is two left turns.

 

Of course you have to do three to be right which is why U Turns are wrong as you are doing two.

[2Far ★]

That diagram doesn't clear up anything and in fact, makes it even more perplexing. One report said the next exit was 6 miles down the road, & would have cost them no more than 15 minutes delay.

Part of my job involves trying to determining WTF people do what they do, ya know: done it before; there's a reward (money, time, praise, etc.); don't all the risks; seen somebody else do it; too much reliance on safety equipment; etc.

[TrentonMakes]

12 minutes ago, 2Far said:

That diagram doesn't clear up anything and in fact, makes it even more perplexing. One report said the next exit was 6 miles down the road, & would have cost them no more than 15 minutes delay.

Correct.  I believe the diagram clarifies what the driver did, but certainly not why.  Obviously just speculation but it would seem he decided that 15 minutes was too much.

It would be bad enough if he tried to enter the median from the left lane of the mainline.  To come in off the exit ramp like that is just baffling, even if it was a guy in a sports car with good handling and acceleration.  With a busload of kids..... 

Looking at the roadway/ramp network, where they were coming from and where they were going, the driver must have been fifty shades of confused that morning.  It seems as if he did get off the correct exit from I-80, but then once he got off he missed at least two turns and ended up getting back on 80W.  But if the median U-turn worked he'd have been able to get right back on a ramp toward the destination.

I know we have some, er, "elder statesmen" here but I think the driver, at 77, was older than all of you.  I expect a big, big deal to be made of that.

[Prophet Zacharia]

Only once. I entered Aligator Alley in Florida and realized my mistake immediately, but the sign said next exit 110 Miles. I u-turned and went back to the toll booth office to explain. It seemed like I wasn’t the first to do that.

[Dottleshead ★]

Horrible.

[2Far ★]

32 minutes ago, TrentonMakes said:

I know we have some, er, "elder statesmen" here but I think the driver, at 77, was older than all of you.  I expect a big, big deal to be made of that.

Whoa, I had not heard that.

[ChrisL]

I've done it numerous times as a patrolman. But people are in the lookout for the light bar so are well behaved.

The extra signal for a U turn is an interesting thought.  In most cases if a U turn is legal than it is the U turner who has responsibility for doing so safely.  But often times a car can also legally make a right turn on red as a person makes a U turn and I can see the added signal being of value there.

[jdc2000]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mount-olive-new-jersey-deadly-school-bus-crash-driver-suspensions/

 

[Dottleshead ★]

Quote

the 77-year-old man who was driving the school bus involved in last week's deadly crash has held a driver's license since 1975 and had a total of 14 license suspensions and eight speeding tickets, a careless driving ticket and a ticket for an improper turn in 2010, CBS News transportation correspondent Kris Van Cleave reports. Only one license suspension was due to a moving violation, the N.J. MVC said.

A teacher and a student were killed last week when a dump truck collided with a bus filled with fifth graders on a field trip in New Jersey. Forty-three others were injured. Authorities are investigating the cause of the crash. 

The driver was licensed to drive a school bus starting in 2013, the N.J. MVC said. That same year, he was cited for not wearing a seatbelt. 

That's probably why he got the job.  One moving suspension in 55 years is not ideal but could be forgiven?   Either way, he's not looking to good.

[12string]

Only one moving violation - that was severe enough to warrant a suspension.  Add to that the 9 others.  And I don't care how spry and alert you are for 77 years old, that's still not enough to be transporting a busload of kids.

[maddmaxx ★]

On 5/22/2018 at 11:59 AM, TrentonMakes said:

Correct.  I believe the diagram clarifies what the driver did, but certainly not why.  Obviously just speculation but it would seem he decided that 15 minutes was too much.

It would be bad enough if he tried to enter the median from the left lane of the mainline.  To come in off the exit ramp like that is just baffling, even if it was a guy in a sports car with good handling and acceleration.  With a busload of kids..... 

Looking at the roadway/ramp network, where they were coming from and where they were going, the driver must have been fifty shades of confused that morning.  It seems as if he did get off the correct exit from I-80, but then once he got off he missed at least two turns and ended up getting back on 80W.  But if the median U-turn worked he'd have been able to get right back on a ramp toward the destination.

I know we have some, er, "elder statesmen" here but I think the driver, at 77, was older than all of you.  I expect a big, big deal to be made of that.

I agree on the age thing and the confused thing.  IMO all drivers should be retested periodically for their license.  I think a realistic test could be designed with a couple of decision making points in them.

We are far enough along in technology that drivers could be tested in simulators with real world activities like Ice, Snow and "holy crap you just missed your exit, get off the phone and do something immediately".

Great learning tools involve getting killed (simulated) for at least one of your mistakes.

[Kzoo]

29 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

I agree on the age thing and the confused thing.  IMO all drivers should be retested periodically for their license.  I think a realistic test could be designed with a couple of decision making points in them.

We are far enough along in technology that drivers could be tested in simulators with real world activities like Ice, Snow and "holy crap you just missed your exit, get off the phone and do something immediately".

Great learning tools involve getting killed (simulated) for at least one of your mistakes.

WoKzoo is a school bus driver.  She has to retest periodically to keep her conerical certification- I don't remember how ofter.  I know the re-certify test is easier than the original test.  She has to do medical testing annually and she has online training and testing for the state dealing with health and safety annually. She also has a 2 day training session right before school starts that includes a day for a combined district training and then a day specific to the transportation department that includes time behind the wheel.  

Nowhere in there do they teach you how and when to uses a unauthorized U turn on a divided highway.  That does not mean some of the drivers don't do dumb things.  All their buses have video.  Some drivers have been fired for texting while driving - a busload of kids at 50 mph.

[sheep_herder ★]

Many times on my bicycle, not making lite of the subject, but interstates in eastern Montana are very different than in the congested parts of the country.

[Kzoo]

13 minutes ago, sheep_herder said:

Many times on my bicycle, not making lite of the subject, but interstates in eastern Montana are very different than in the congested parts of the country.

Yeah, I found it strange to see bicycles allowed on interstates out in the western states.

[TrentonMakes]

Today's update:  77-year old bus driver charged with two counts of vehicular homicide