Moving between 2 worlds-poor vs. rich

[shootingstar]

https://torontolife.com/city/life/mom-welfare-dad-hippie-grandparents-two-richest-people-toronto/  (Long article about a half-black kid growing up poor but visiting her rich Jewish grandparents)

Reading this, reminds me of growing up quite poor.  I also had a best friend who was pretty, white, popular and raised in an upper middle-class family.  She was also consistently smart. (She did her masters in pharamacology at a major Canadian university.) 

It was fascinating to me as a teen, when visiting her house...colour coordinated furnishings, middle class or more. Her world just so different...how they celebrated Christmas with live fresh Christmas tree, all the baked goodies, turkey....it was a classic seemingly cossetted life. Yet later all that didn't protect the family from unhappiness and conflict.

Our friendship lasted nearly 20 years. I was her maid of honour.  She later divorced.

Despite the fact that we no longer keep in touch, I would say this friendship did help us grow and give one another  balanced view of the world.  (I hope she feels that way also. But I have no idea.)

 

[maddmaxx ★]

My experience with wealth was my son's marriage in Malaysia.  His father in law owned two companies and his wife was the president of one of them.  Dad lived on the top 4 floors of a skyscraper his company built in Kuala Lumpur.  Interesting in that his father in law arrived in Malaysia as a laborer/cook who first bought the restaurant he worked in, then sold it, then started his company..........a rags to riches story.  He was a very impressive man, very down to earth yet he was very wealthy by any standards.

Unfortunately for my son, the marriage didn't last more than 2 years.

[shootingstar]

What I had to learn after university, was how to carry myself in a refined, middle class way. There ARE certain mannerisms and workplace cultures in offices/organizations and as one works further up the organizational chain.  I barely had any consistent exposure how to tone down myself or find a way of schlepping a message that was more palatable. 

The closest was my father, a restaurant cook, a mild-mannered and soft-spoken guy (who was highly disciplined in organizing stuff and keeping to budget).  And then it was my friendship with the white, upper middle-class gal-pal I described above, to be exposed often enough to middle class  ways as a kid-teen.

 

[petitepedal ★]

Looking back..we were poor...my mom worked hard and for awhile a job where she was on call and a part time job..I think it would have been much worse if we hadn't lived with my grandfather.

I think my mom did her best to keep us from thinking we were poor..Books and education were important. Our income changed about 5 years before she died, when she changed careers at 50..but she always wanted to make up for what we didn't have growing up.

My theory is...the struggles and problems can be the same rich or poor..the rich just have more money to toss at the problem..but as we all know..money doesn't fix everything. 

[donkpow]

The rural area I came from had a lot of poor people. Unfortunately, the behavior of the poor people was akin to kowtowing. You know, I get it, show some respect. This went beyond that. The thinking was that the well off were unapproachable and in a separate class. After I left home, I found myself in "mixed company".  And they were not having any of that pussy footing around. Ever since, I don't even notice. I'll bitch slap a pimp any time, any where. 

[late]

My high school was infested with a lot of rich kids. The father of one of them was a Detroit exec. How many freshman show up, as a freshman in college, in an expensive Itralian sports car? I don't rememeber what it was, he destroyed it quickly. After that, he could only get Fords. The first one was a Mustang with a big v8. It went end over end a few times and looked like it had gone through a crusher.

There were 4 seatbelts, and that kept the level of injury non-lethal. I was the 5th guy, and had gotten out a few minutes earlier.

The rich are different. They simply don't have a lot of the problems we have (the kid was an idiot, his dad bought his diploma).

But the problems they do have occasionally kill them.

Money is potential, the same way a 440 line has potential. You can use it to do anything from make cool shit to kill yourself efficiently. Remember the Kennedy kid, crashed in his new plane?

[Page Turner]

30 minutes ago, late said:

Money is potential, the same way a 440 line has potential. You can use it to do anything from make cool shit to kill yourself efficiently. Remember the Kennedy kid, crashed in his new plane?

...John Denver Syndrome.  I went to a prep school for high school, so there were plenty of kids there who were the sons of doctors and lawyers and business executives.

There were also a couple of kids who took the train in every day from Gaithersburg, where they lived on dairy farms (which have since become condominium townhouses...so they might have inherited a buncha money.)

 

I never got the impression that this was much more than a sense of entitlement in childhood circumstances that are not particularly demanding, and where there are a lot of attention and awards heaped upon the individuals we're hating on here.  One of my close friends for the entire four years was a doctor's kid from over in SE D.C. where we both lived  Him in a pretty swank house down of Pennsylvania Ave, SE, and me in a crappy veterans co-op apartment complex.  He never seemed to let it go to his head, never crashed the 64 1/2 Mustang, eventually came out as gay.  I like to think that everyone has potential, but it just gets crushed by excessive entitlement in certain circumstances where the parents are too busy or clueless to impart some societal values to balance the ego.  Ivanka Syndrome.

[maddmaxx ★]

Yep.  I went to a private school my last 2 years in High School on a scholarship as I was the country mouse who had trouble making bus fare home.  21 in the graduating class.  Names like Dodd, Dadario, Gengras and a bunch of others. I was there for academics.  Many of my classmates would go on to own companies or be state and federal congressmen.  When I was discharged from the service and married womaxx we got an invite to the 10th class reunion.  Womaxx was all like......."you know these people"?  We didn't go.  We simply didn't have the clothes to wear to that shindig.

[Airehead]

Interesting thread.  I went to college with some really rich people-- for some you would never know it except by the quality of wardrobe staples like under garments, button-downs etc...  Others, always throwing around cash and possessions.  I think money doesn't bring class--- class is what sets people apart--- and how weath is used.

[Page Turner]

...I want to know how you know about the quality of their undergarments, but I don't feel like I can politely ask. 

[shootingstar]

2 hours ago, Airehead said:

Interesting thread.  I went to college with some really rich people-- for some you would never know it except by the quality of wardrobe staples like under garments, button-downs etc...  Others, always throwing around cash and possessions.  I think money doesn't bring class--- class is what sets people apart--- and how weath is used.

When my youngest sister went to medical school, she did encounter some rich kids who didn't have to work or perhaps they chose not to work for their tuition prior to med school (in Canada, you must lst have an undergraduate university degree with high marks, and write the pre-med exam, to qualify for med. school).  Nothing wrong, except she found it intriguing their ideas about life abit la-la-land.  Maybe by now it's different for her colleagues.  Meanwhile she had to earn all her tuition, etc. all the way because my parents were poor.  I am not certain she even got any scholarship or bursary at all.

I did loan some money to her when she asked once early in med school. It wasn't a huge amount, but enough for part tuition. Hmmm....I'm not sure she's paid me back. Literally I think she's forgotten and I've forgotten until I pause to remember. ? Since then, I've stayed over at her home, eaten etc...So she's paying off eventually.  I get all the medical advice I want from her..as a check against face to face medical diagnosis from my physicians here in home town.

Right now at work, a work colleague originally educated in northern China, now here for last 20 yrs.,  has her daughter at home after finishing her lst year in university.  She mentioned her daughter was looking for summer work.  She's hoping her daughter will do some tutoring for kids.  I said if daughter doesn't get it, perhaps she can get a job in the service industry...restaurant, etc.  She seemed almost offended.  I said to her"  "There's no shame to pick up some customer service skills while earning money". 

You see....some of the richer, educated Chinese immigrants...are abit snobby.  Because in urban China among the middle class, look down on the service industry and rural, migrant worker folks.

 

 

[late]

1 hour ago, Page Turner said:

...I want to know how you know about the quality of their undergarments, but I don't feel like I can politely ask. 

Ahh, college.

 

[Airehead]

1 hour ago, late said:

Ahh, college.

 

All girls school.  We wore pajamas and under garments running too and from the shower.  The guys were al at the NAval Academy.  It was rare to see their undergarments.

[Airehead]

But wealth doesn't bring class and lack of wealth doesn't mean lack of class.

 

[ChrisL]

8 hours ago, shootingstar said:

What I had to learn after university, was how to carry myself in a refined, middle class way. There ARE certain mannerisms and workplace cultures in offices/organizations and as one works further up the organizational chain.  I barely had any consistent exposure how to tone down myself or find a way of schlepping a message that was more palatable. 

The closest was my father, a restaurant cook, a mild-mannered and soft-spoken guy (who was highly disciplined in organizing stuff and keeping to budget).  And then it was my friendship with the white, upper middle-class gal-pal I described above, to be exposed often enough to middle class  ways as a kid-teen.

 

I find your take on norms in the workplace interesting and pretty much opposite of what I experienced as a young manager working my way up. For lack of a better term you had to have balls to move up. You had to put other managers who were trying to outclimb you in their place and you had to perform at a high level. Screw office niceties, as long as it wasn't illegal to hell what others thought.  

My first months on the job my Region VP (no not that one) asked me where I wanted to be in 5 years and I said flat out I want your job so look out.  Was it brash, hell yes and he ate it up.  In 6 Years I had his job albeit with another firm.

ive held pretty senior level positions for decades now and yes there is a professional decorum but I find in business leadership be prepared to speak your mind, stand behind your beliefs and perform or you will be replaced. Oh and you will not make everyone happy so don't try to.

The whole wealth thing,interesting takes but I think people pretty much said what I feel on it.

[shootingstar]

10 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I find your take on norms in the workplace interesting and pretty much opposite of what I experienced as a young manager working my way up. For lack of a better term you had to have balls to move up. You had to put other managers who were trying to outclimb you in their place and you had to perform at a high level. Screw office niceties, as long as it wasn't illegal to hell what others thought.  

.......................................................................................................

I've held pretty senior level positions for decades now and yes there is a professional decorum but I find in business leadership be prepared to speak your mind, stand behind your beliefs and perform or you will be replaced. Oh and you will not make everyone happy so don't try to.

Make no mistake what I meant... I had to learn how to speak my mind, but in a way that was clear but find ways that would wind its way in words, to get what was needed.  I tend to have a direct style...which for a woman is perceived as more outspoken / aggressive than a guy who may exhibit the same level of assertiveness. I've seen this repeatedly in strong female managers and how others respond to them.   And I've reported to several women managers like this  as well as guys..rather interesting perceptions of style, decorum, etc..  

 

 

[ChrisL]

2 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Make no mistake what I meant... I had to learn how to speak my mind, but in a way that was clear but find ways that would wind its way in words, to get what was needed.  I tend to have a direct style...which for a woman is perceived as more outspoken / aggressive than a guy who may exhibit the same level of assertiveness. I've seen this repeatedly in strong female managers and how others respond to them.   And I've reported to several women managers like this  as well as guys..rather interesting perceptions of style, decorum, etc..  

 

 

Yeah I think you are right. Back to your OP I think it may be more a gender bias than socioeconomic bias. As a man I'm sure I got away with saying or doing things a woman couldn't have.  But it was a mostly male industry.

[shootingstar]

5 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Yeah I think you are right. Back to your OP I think it may be more a gender bias than socioeconomic bias. As a man I'm sure I got away with saying or doing things a woman couldn't have.  But it was a mostly male industry.

My directness probably comes from being lst born of 6 kids and also my mother is very direct. Didn't finish high school and even if she barely knows any English, she will defend her children...by snapping at you in ...Chinese. My father was smoother, a bridge, dispute arbitrator.. it is he was the family role model, where we learned how to schlepp the better talk, be more persuasive.  Iron fist in velvet glove thing.

 

[sheep_herder ★]

Interesting thread and to learn of some of the various environments ones live and work in.   I must say that I am glad that I did not work in some of the business environments you describe.  Oh we had some scientist that were very aggressive and competitive on a local, national and international scale. Fortunately, I worked in a field where I was able to carve out a niche, design studies, conduct the needed research, and publish the results.  Luckily, from 1988 to 2006 I had adequate funding, so I did not have to hustle grants to fund my research, but that was not true from 1975 to 1988. One very important lesson I learned, was if I asked for monies for equipment, labor, etc. to make sure and use the monies wisely.  Local, regional, and national bosses had good memories, and were not pleased when purchased equipment was not being used efficiently. This could affect responses to future requests.  Sadly some folks did not grasp the importance of this endeavor.

Never really noticed a big divide in students in high school or college relative to parents income.  Lived in a small town of 15,000 people, many working at the oil industry and many working in agriculture (rice, cattle and a little bit of oil). High school graduating class usually was around 400.

[Dottleshead ★]

16 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

Unfortunately for my son, the marriage didn't last more than 2 years.

Sorry to read that. I remember you having a good time.

[onbike1939]

I suppose I grew up I a poor family but at the time it didn't seem so as many were poorer than my family. I do remember being absolutely awestruck when I glimpsed the inside of a friend's larder which was full of things which I'd never seen before such as baked beans and shelves of unrecognisable tins. Even now I can quote exactly what our larder contained....which wasn't much at all.

I do not think that we are the total sum of our life-experiences. We are more than that I feel, and it is this extra factor which eventually determines the kind of person we become. One person may become embittered by what they have experienced whereas another becomes more giving, more open-hearted in their interaction with others. I think that it is this quality, that of having a generous heart, that I prize most of all.

[MickinMD ★]

I was also from a poor family, but an extremely distant relative with the same last name, Frank Cashen, was a wealthy lawyer who was general manager of the Baltimore Orioles and later the NY Mets.

When I was working my way through what was then a commuter branch of the U. of Maryland (UMBC), I met a rich girl named Patty who attended an expensive, private college but who lived near UMBC, knew some of my clique of college friends and I ended up invited to a lot of parties she threw at her parents' mansion.

One evening, Patty introduced me to her father who asked, "Cashen? You're not one of THE Cashens, are you?"

I had met Frank Cashen at the old "Hit and Run Club" at the old Memorial Stadium in Baltimore and he asked if I knew where my great-grandfather lived in Ireland. I said "Tipperary County." He kindly replied, "That's where my people are from and that's not near the Cashen River or Bay of Cashen - so there aren't a lot of Cashen's there and we must be cousins of some kind!"

So, to the girl's father, I wanted to say "F.U." but I simply smiled and answered, "Frank is my cousin!"

[Further]

Given the choice, I'd choose rich

[12string]

can we get back to the part about the all girls school and running around in undergarments?

[JerrySTL ★]

1 hour ago, 12string said:

can we get back to the part about the all girls school and running around in undergarments?

From now on I'll mentally picture you as John Belishi on the ladder in Animal House.

[late]

I applied to Vassar and another all girls school in western NY the first year they turned coed. Me and a million other guys.

Next year, we had a transfer from that other school. Which blew my mind, not only did he leave the girls, he dropped from a 2nd tier school to a 3rd tier school.

When I asked him why, he said he needed to get some sleep.

Sigh.

[Dottleshead ★]

50 minutes ago, late said:

When I asked him why, he said he needed to get some sleep.

Sigh.

Or he just wanted to party. Less load more party time.

[late]

2 hours ago, Dottie said:

Or he just wanted to party. Less load more party time.

If he didn't lock his door, he said somebody would come in.

If he did lock the door, they knocked.

Sounds crazy, but it's just supply and demand, and the era.

 

 

[Square Wheels]

I haven't read the posts above, but I feel I have moved from the world of poor to the world of the wealthy.  No I am not a 1 percenter.  I used to think of myself as broke all the time.  A friend pointed out I had a decent income, very little debt, and more money than most people on the planet.  When I started thinking like I was wealthy, my whole perspective on money changed - for the better.  I consider myself very fortunate, and very wealthy.