Zephyr Posted June 12, 2018 Share #1 Posted June 12, 2018 It just dawned on me this makes 3 cycling related threads this week for me. Yikes! Anyone here ride tubeless on the road? The new bike I am looking at is set up tubeless but I am unfamiliar with them. Apparently I can run tubes if I want/need to. I really do not know anything about them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted June 12, 2018 Share #2 Posted June 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Zephyr said: It just dawned on me this makes 3 cycling related threads this week for me. Yikes! Anyone here ride tubeless on the road? The new bike I am looking at is set up tubeless but I am unfamiliar with them. Apparently I can run tubes if I want/need to. I really do not know anything about them Not true road but CX. They work great. It's nice to run lower pressure for CX. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further Posted June 12, 2018 Share #3 Posted June 12, 2018 There has to be a reason they quit putting tubes in car tires. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Page Turner Posted June 12, 2018 Popular Post Share #4 Posted June 12, 2018 ...I have encountered tubeless road tyres, but never felt compelled to adopt them myself. My judgement on tubeless setups for road is that you don't get any rotating weight savings (they might, in fact, pencil out heavier if you compare tyre weight and the weight of the sealant added). They're a bear to deal with on the road if your tyre damage exceeds the limits of the sealant. They're a PIA to mount initially, because of the the tighter bead, need to add sealant, and need for a compressor (or a burst air tank) to seat the beads. And on the road, you don't need advantage of the major positive of running them at lower pressures for traction while avoiding pinch flats. I just think they're another solution looking for a problem. But in my riding, with tyres that have a light puncture resistant belt, I don't flat much. Don't believe the bullshit about you can just add tubes if you want, because unless you go to different tyres, the mounting and removal will still be very tedious because of the tight bead. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted June 13, 2018 Share #5 Posted June 13, 2018 Yay fellow retro-grouch traditionalist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ltdskilz Posted June 13, 2018 Share #6 Posted June 13, 2018 Tubeless seems like way too much trouble for those of us who don't actually race. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted June 13, 2018 Author Share #7 Posted June 13, 2018 Saving weight is not an issue for me, if I was worried about weight, I wouldn't have an ice cream sandwich after supper tonight. It comes on the bike, but I have lots of good tires and tubes from my old bike so I am not above swapping tires. I get lots of flats normally, so it may be interesting if I get to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #8 Posted June 13, 2018 ...if you normally get a lot of flats, and they are of the small puncture variety, it's definitely worth trying. Even if those of us who are real men will snicker at you behind your back when we see you at rest stops. The sealant dries out inside the tyre after a while, so you need to renew it every now and then, but that's not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeman564™ Posted June 13, 2018 Share #9 Posted June 13, 2018 Here's what I know. I run tubeless on my fatbike and CX bike which works quite well. I've only had a small rim leak on the fatbike, once but otherwise fine. I can w/ my mavic ksyrium wheels but do not run tubeless on the road bike. A good friend of mine who I ride with a lot does run tubeless on his road. He's done gone thru five tires w/in a couple months from punctures. IIRC 4 of them occurred while riding w/ me. I noticed this. After he got a puncture, the sealant sprays out and after awhile seals the tire. However, he still had problems a day or two later w/ them sealing. I would be riding w/ him and all of a sudden the sealant starts spraying out of the existing hole it originally sealed. No way am I running tubeless on my road bike after seeing his issues. With the fatbike I run between 4-9 psi, and the CX bike I run between 40-55 psi w/o issue. I feel that the higher pressure of road tires, say between 90-120 psi, the sealant will not keep the hole sealed. Conversely, I have seen him (all but one time) able to make it home w/o issue. But for a long haul? No thanks. Perhaps a caveat to this is this. The issues he was having was when the temperature outside was between 45-65 degrees F. Perhaps he needed a winter sealant. But I'm not sure what sealant was in his tires. For whatever its worth, this is what I know. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted June 13, 2018 Author Share #10 Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Page Turner said: Even if those of us who are real men will snicker at you behind your back when we see you at rest stops. Ha, jokes on you. You'll never see me at the rest stops, I will be too far behind. You'll be long gone by the time I get there. People laugh at me all the time. You'll need to do more than that to get noticed by me. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted June 13, 2018 Share #11 Posted June 13, 2018 Weight isn't the biggest reason, IMHO. It's the lack of flats and being able to run a lower cushy pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeman564™ Posted June 13, 2018 Share #12 Posted June 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: Weight isn't the biggest reason, IMHO. It's the lack of flats and being able to run a lower cushy pressure. Agree. You're taking out a tube, but adding in sealant. It feels like a wash. But the fatbike tube is heavy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #13 Posted June 13, 2018 34 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: Weight isn't the biggest reason, IMHO. It's the lack of flats and being able to run a lower cushy pressure. ...on the road, lower cushy pressure = slow like snail. I guess if you're already slow, maybe it doesn't matter. And all that extra rolling resistance you get from all the tire flexing provides a lot of extra exercise per mile. Winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further Posted June 13, 2018 Share #14 Posted June 13, 2018 I was worried about heat build up in the lower pressures I've been running, then I realized the lower speeds canceled out the lower pressures. Win Win ! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted June 13, 2018 Share #15 Posted June 13, 2018 Many good points made, one thing not brought up is fewer tire choices for road tubeless. Another way to look at it is in off road applications tubeless is taking over whereas it's hardly in use in the road. I think this is because the benefits of road tubeless are fewer if there are any than in off road use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedalphile Posted June 13, 2018 Share #16 Posted June 13, 2018 13 hours ago, Page Turner said: ...I have encountered tubeless road tyres, but never felt compelled to adopt them myself. My judgement on tubeless setups for road is that you don't get any rotating weight savings (they might, in fact, pencil out heavier if you compare tyre weight and the weight of the sealant added). They're a bear to deal with on the road if your tyre damage exceeds the limits of the sealant. They're a PIA to mount initially, because of the the tighter bead, need to add sealant, and need for a compressor (or a burst air tank) to seat the beads. And on the road, you don't need advantage of the major positive of running them at lower pressures for traction while avoiding pinch flats. I just think they're another solution looking for a problem. But in my riding, with tyres that have a light puncture resistant belt, I don't flat much. Don't believe the bullshit about you can just add tubes if you want, because unless you go to different tyres, the mounting and removal will still be very tedious because of the tight bead. Then there's all the storing them for years in your cellar before using them. Forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecan ★ Posted June 13, 2018 Share #17 Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, pedalphile said: Then there's all the storing them for years in your cellar before using them. Forget about it. He said tubeless, not tubular. Sheesh! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend_Maynard Posted June 13, 2018 Share #18 Posted June 13, 2018 12 hours ago, Page Turner said: ...on the road, lower cushy pressure = slow like snail. I guess if you're already slow, maybe it doesn't matter. And all that extra rolling resistance you get from all the tire flexing provides a lot of extra exercise per mile. Winning. That's pretty much been disproven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #19 Posted June 13, 2018 26 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said: That's pretty much been disproven ...I guess you learned that over on TOBFTMNMN, where everyone seems to believe that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend_Maynard Posted June 13, 2018 Share #20 Posted June 13, 2018 They probably believe the earth is a sphere, too! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted June 13, 2018 Share #21 Posted June 13, 2018 15 hours ago, Page Turner said: ...on the road, lower cushy pressure = slow like snail. I guess if you're already slow, maybe it doesn't matter. And all that extra rolling resistance you get from all the tire flexing provides a lot of extra exercise per mile. Winning. By cushy, I didn't mean 4 psi. I meant cushy as in comfortable. I love tubeless for it's cornering and grip, being able to run a lower pressure. Although, my bikes are all CX or MTB. I don't run a true road bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted June 13, 2018 Share #22 Posted June 13, 2018 If you snakebite a tubeless can you belt it and go? Will your hands stay relatively clean? Is changing a tube a goopy mess? I think I know which way I am leaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #23 Posted June 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Reverend_Maynard said: They probably believe the earth is a sphere, too! ? ...I know you loooooove to argue, Rev. Just like you knooooow you're right on this. Like those guys, you read something somewhere, and it comes back a little garbled. So I'm not gonna post up a long educational piece about how energy goes somewhere after it leaves your foot/pedal interface, and how much of it tire flex eats up. BTW, the photos tell me that the earth is more of an irregular spheroid shape, not a true sphere at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted June 13, 2018 Author Share #24 Posted June 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, Wilbur said: If you snakebite a tubeless can you belt it and go? Will your hands stay relatively clean? Is changing a tube a goopy mess? I think I know which way I am leaning. I am told that if I snakebite and or flat, I CAN put a tube in it roadside and continue. Page tells me this is hard to do so I will just defer to him because I have never tried it. Not concerned about clean hands. I always carry a couple pairs of rubber gloves in my repair kit for fixing flats anyway to keep my hands clean (My PROTIP of the day). I have changed a tube with the goop in it on my old bike and it wasn't too bad. Don't be resistant to change. If everyone was resistant to change anything on their bikes, we'd all be riding around on a penny farthing. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend_Maynard Posted June 13, 2018 Share #25 Posted June 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, Page Turner said: ...I know you loooooove to argue, Rev. Just like you knooooow you're right on this. Like those guys, you read something somewhere, and it comes back a little garbled. So I'm not gonna post up a long educational piece about how energy goes somewhere after it leaves your foot/pedal interface, and how much of it tire flex eats up. BTW, the photos tell me that the earth is more of an irregular spheroid shape, not a true sphere at all. Thank you for not doing that. It would likely be tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted June 13, 2018 Share #26 Posted June 13, 2018 If you burp your tubeless tire, or get a flat, you can just toss a tube in. It's not a big deal, but it is messy. I tend to not listen to Paige about bikes. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted June 13, 2018 Share #27 Posted June 13, 2018 Is snake biting an issue with tubeless? A snakebite is the tube pinching between the rim and a hard object on the road . Remove the tube remove the bite right? To my understanding tubeless tires have reinforced sidewalls as the tube provides some structural strength. I would think this would prevent the tire from collapsing in on itself if you were to hit a hard object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted June 13, 2018 Share #28 Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, ChrisL said: Is snake biting an issue with tubeless? A snakebite is the tube pinching between the rim and a hard object on the road . Remove the tube remove the bite right? To my understanding tubeless tires have reinforced sidewalls as the tube provides some structural strength. I would think this would prevent the tire from collapsing in on itself if you were to hit a hard object. No. You can burp it off though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted June 13, 2018 Share #29 Posted June 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: No. You can burp it off though. Yeah I didn't think so. Right, you could burp the tire if you hit something hard enough but not snakebite the tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #30 Posted June 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: If you burp your tubeless tire, or get a flat, you can just toss a tube in. It's not a big deal, but it is messy. I tend to not listen to Paige about bikes. ...road h8er. Try that with a tubeless 700x23 and tell me how it works. Oh wait, you don't ride those do you ? Of course it's easy for you, girly. You have a mechanic on your staff. Some of us can't afford that, because fixed income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #31 Posted June 13, 2018 49 minutes ago, Reverend_Maynard said: Thank you for not doing that. It would likely be tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #32 Posted June 13, 2018 ...I called DH "girly" . I'm a baaaaaad boy, Abbot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted June 13, 2018 Share #33 Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Page Turner said: ...I called DH "girly" . I'm a baaaaaad boy, Abbot. You obviously want to die young and ugly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #34 Posted June 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, Kzoo said: You obviously want to die young and ugly. ...too late for young, have to settle for ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #35 Posted June 13, 2018 35 minutes ago, ChrisL said: Yeah I didn't think so. Right, you could burp the tire if you hit something hard enough but not snakebite the tire. ...both snakebiting and burping a tyre are much less common in road environments. In 40 years, I think I've had one snakebite flat on the road, and I've never burped a road tyre off the rim. What we have in this thread is some people who have definite opinions, who are translating their experiences with off road riding into advice for road riding. That always works well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted June 13, 2018 Share #36 Posted June 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, Page Turner said: That always works well. No it doesn't. Oh, wait..... that was sarcasm...... sorry my bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted June 13, 2018 Share #37 Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, ChrisL said: Is snake biting an issue with tubeless? A snakebite is the tube pinching between the rim and a hard object on the road . Remove the tube remove the bite right? To my understanding tubeless tires have reinforced sidewalls as the tube provides some structural strength. I would think this would prevent the tire from collapsing in on itself if you were to hit a hard object. It can be. I have replaced tires damaged by a snakebite pinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted June 13, 2018 Share #38 Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Zephyr said: I am told that if I snakebite and or flat, I CAN put a tube in it roadside and continue. Page tells me this is hard to do so I will just defer to him because I have never tried it. Not concerned about clean hands. I always carry a couple pairs of rubber gloves in my repair kit for fixing flats anyway to keep my hands clean (My PROTIP of the day). I have changed a tube with the goop in it on my old bike and it wasn't too bad. Don't be resistant to change. If everyone was resistant to change anything on their bikes, we'd all be riding around on a penny farthing. ? Ok, ok. I will take your advice when I trash my Ti frame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted June 13, 2018 Share #39 Posted June 13, 2018 21 minutes ago, Page Turner said: ...both snakebiting and burping a tyre are much less common in road environments. In 40 years, I think I've had one snakebite flat on the road, and I've never burped a road tyre off the rim. What we have in this thread is some people who have definite opinions, who are translating their experiences with off road riding into advice for road riding. That always works well. Not questioning your knowledge but trying to understand myself... but do you run road tubeless? I honestly don't know of anyone who does. I get that with the higher volume mtn bike tire actually pinching it to cause a flat is not likely. I take it it is more likely on a road tubeless application? To my understanding burning a tire is more common when severely under inflated which wouldn't seem to be as likely with a road tubeless application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted June 13, 2018 Share #40 Posted June 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Wilbur said: It can be. I have replaced tires damaged by a snakebite pinch. On a road tubeless though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted June 13, 2018 Share #41 Posted June 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, ChrisL said: On a road tubeless though? No. I guess it can't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted June 13, 2018 Share #42 Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Page Turner said: ...road h8er. Try that with a tubeless 700x23 and tell me how it works. Oh wait, you don't ride those do you ? Of course it's easy for you, girly. You have a mechanic on your staff. Some of us can't afford that, because fixed income. No. I don't run anything less than 35. Cause road biking is fucking boring. Yeah, I married my mechanic. You could marry a mechanic too . <shrug> Don't hate me cause I'm sexy. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #43 Posted June 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, ChrisL said: Not questioning your knowledge but trying to understand myself... but do you run road tubeless? I honestly don't know of anyone who does. I get that with the higher volume mtn bike tire actually pinching it to cause a flat is not likely. I take it it is more likely on a road tubeless application? To my understanding burning a tire is more common when severely under inflated which wouldn't seem to be as likely with a road tubeless application. ...my initial post told you what I run and why I made the decision. Do you know anyone who intentionally underinflates a road tyre ? I do not, and there are some very good reasons for it, besides the risks of a pinch flat. It just makes no sense to underinflate a road tyre. You go for a certain drop according to your weight, conditions, and preferences. Anything more just slows you down because of the energy you lose to tyre flex and increasing rolling resistance. Teh Rev will probably stick around and tell me two or three more times that this has been disproved, but repeating it does not make it any more correct. Another strange myth that has swept over the people who read magazine articles is that somehow, fatter tyres are just as fast. It's true to a certain extent, like going from 213's to 25's if you're heavier. But once you get up into the 700x28/32 widths, The additional tyre weight in your rotating mass starts to bite you in the ass. A lot of this is covered in Bicycling Science. But arguing with people who already "know" is just a dead end on the internet. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #44 Posted June 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: No. I don't run anything less than 35. Cause road biking is fucking boring. Yeah, I married my mechanic. You could marry a mechanic too . <shrug> Don't hate me cause I'm sexy. ? ...road biking is only boring if you're on Strava. Down by the river here, with all the birdies and animals, it's like I'm in a Disney movie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Page Turner Posted June 13, 2018 Share #45 Posted June 13, 2018 29 minutes ago, Wilbur said: It can be. I have replaced tires damaged by a snakebite pinch. ...run higher pressures and ride around the big potholes, don't hop curbs, and try to pay attention to where you're going. This is not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted June 13, 2018 Share #46 Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Page Turner said: ...run higher pressures and ride around the big potholes, don't hop curbs, and try to pay attention to where you're going. This is not hard. They weren't my tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted June 13, 2018 Share #47 Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Page Turner said: ...run higher pressures and ride around the big potholes, don't hop curbs, and try to pay attention to where you're going. This is not hard. Sometimes you are forced into a pothole. The one pinch flat I've had in my life was because of that. Since then I have gone from 23s to 25 and run a slightly lower tire pressure. It's been several years now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted June 13, 2018 Share #48 Posted June 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, Page Turner said: ...my initial post told you what I run and why I made the decision. Do you know anyone who intentionally underinflates a road tyre ? I do not, and there are some very good reasons for it, besides the risks of a pinch flat. It just makes no sense to underinflate a road tyre. You go for a certain drop according to your weight, conditions, and preferences. Anything more just slows you down because of the energy you lose to tyre flex and increasing rolling resistance. Teh Rev will probably stick around and tell me two or three more times that this has been disproved, but repeating it does not make it any more correct. Another strange myth that has swept over the people who read magazine articles is that somehow, fatter tyres are just as fast. It's true to a certain extent, like going from 213's to 25's if you're heavier. But once you get up into the 700x28/32 widths, The additional tyre weight in your rotating mass starts to bite you in the ass. A lot of this is covered in Bicycling Science. But arguing with people who already "know" is just a dead end on the internet. Yeah that's right you did. I was trying to get 1st hand account/info from someone who used a road tubeless set up but forgot you did explain it. My retention is for sheot! ? FWIW I've switched to 25s and have been playing around with lower pressure. I'm currently at 75 front 80 rear and I like the feel of the bigger tire & lower pressure. I was running 23's at 100 psi. So far no snakebites but I don't think I'll take them lower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted June 13, 2018 Share #49 Posted June 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, ChrisL said: FWIW I've switched to 25s and have been playing around with lower pressure. I'm currently at 75 front 80 rear and I like the feel of the bigger tire & lower pressure. I was running 23's at 100 psi. So far no snakebites but I don't think I'll take them lower I used to run 23s at 110psi. I run my 25s at 100 both front and back. 75/80 sounds squishy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted June 13, 2018 Share #50 Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kzoo said: I used to run 23s at 110psi. I run my 25s at 100 both front and back. 75/80 sounds squishy to me. Yeah not squishy at all. Rolls nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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