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dinneR

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Always thinking about a new bike. Thoughts? Same price. Disc brake vs rim. Tiagra vs 105. Alex vs Mavic. Endurance geometry vs racier geometry. My initial thought is the Esatto is more my style. I like that they both can handle a 32C tire. Or I could do nothing and keep riding my existing bike. 

http://konabikes.com/product/2015-zone/

or

http://2016.konaworld.com/esatto_d.cfm

2015_zone-1000x1000.jpg

KONA | ESATTO | Esatto D

 

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4 minutes ago, dennis said:

both can handle a 32C tire

Man, that has to be pretty tight on the 105 rim brake bike.  I'd love to see a photo of the clearance.  It might rule out riding through any sort of muddy stuff or even leaves???

And can you get that Esatto with 11sp?  Heck, my problem would be not wanting to immediately change it to 11sp and hydraulic discs.  

What bike would you replace, and would this be an "upgrade" or a lateral move to a different style?

Tom

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Man, that has to be pretty tight on the 105 rim brake bike.  I'd love to see a photo of the clearance.  It might rule out riding through any sort of muddy stuff or even leaves???

And can you get that Esatto with 11sp?  Heck, my problem would be not wanting to immediately change it to 11sp and hydraulic discs.  

What bike would you replace, and would this be an "upgrade" or a lateral move to a different style?

Tom

The brakes are probably a mid to long reach brake. They are Tektros. The stock tires on both are Conti 28C. Both bikes are 10 sp.  The Zone is 11sp (didn't catch that). Old closeouts 2015 and 2016. The Esatto comes with Hayes mechanical disc brakes. 

I would sell my Salsa Casseroll. It has cantis and can handle a 42C tire so I ride it on pavement and gravel. I'm tired of cantis. Long descents in the mountains make my hands hurt. It is a steel frame with a tall headtube. It's more of a rando or touring geometry. I do love the three bottle cage mounts on the Salsa. It's a fairly heavy bike though. 

QrAknv-Pp19v-wzTH2aYzAvAxla8URPuXz4GoFWyLQJPqcNNCHG-LD5RpbX5XTyS-B2bPgm-c37ooJ_5fOhkEFIhJJDIjeIdOWuXaRYlGk05BgvNqE-9o1yLf9Te1YDUAAfYyeLPqMC5B6r_KhIRWgW86x_j5Lghd0fx8KDT1lnFhG-Jh3zwfOXmRb85pf_eS4dvcYFr7io0bQyV-sWymr5B12DvkQjMpovmZWSU3Bx3gYfGU_rLw4w4XFXmHf-phw73E1Y9PTnQOgnpBAH5ZMPcIeUOfhcR35gGII3tl3LjtdxnEG2hyEy_uGTgXdb7uqjDqIQ6e9JUUjhtc0XTumQPON_gLmw5aOu7xMH7UwNfSGSCeKfJ42W2JuR9JCznXI-JQ_e7DWQhp90ClrVw_KjzGKPMwQGC37CxNbh_xAvBZznIyCi0VHeqx8Sw_eLdacVWFqN1h6o1lJOpdl1atm36Z2U7NcZU41fbFiqHUO-sDXWfgUSBLupriYsHOeI7NjS7ejCdXxVhZ7ADUGSF8RvDVP6wgcE4cLM9bFC7Xspt9L_4R95NdTzy-mPoZb5FjtZSiJDPsOcRKYsfEOxVTqkW_b2Je640nJcXYlc=w1322-h744-no

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54 minutes ago, dennis said:

At last night's group ride, I asked a friend about his bikes. He has a Tarmac and a Venge. Rim and disc brakes. I asked his preference. Disc brakes, he said he never buy a bike with rim brakes again. 

I don't have them but I'd like to get them, too. There is nothing wrong with rim brakes but having all parts of the brake system made for braking makes a lot of sense.

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58 minutes ago, dennis said:

At last night's group ride, I asked a friend about his bikes. He has a Tarmac and a Venge. Rim and disc brakes. I asked his preference. Disc brakes, he said he never buy a bike with rim brakes again. 

Every time I am descending at 35+mph on this one road (7% grade) that ends at a stop sign into a busy road, I wish I had disc brakes.  With my rim brakes and relatively fantastic Dura Ace brakes, I still have to sit up early (to grab some wind), and start applying the brakes careful to both brake hard enough but without cooking the pads.

On disc brakes, I would likely bomb a WHOLE LOT farther before grabbing a handful of brakes.

Tom

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Here's my two cents.  If were buying a road bike now, I would go w/ hydraulic disc brakes. My fat and CX have hydraulic discs, SRAM & Ultegra respectively. They stop so fricking excellently good. I heard mechanical dics don't stop as good as hydraulic but better than rim. But Ultegra IIRC is the first level of hydraulic. Regarding your questions, I'd go w/ the 105 because it's part of the three main groupo's of Shimano. Those look like Mavic Aksium wheels. I've had no issues w/ these which came on my Cannondale. I know nothing of Alex. So 105/mavic is my recommendation.

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17 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said:

Here's my two cents.  If were buying a road bike now, I would go w/ hydraulic disc brakes. My fat and CX have hydraulic discs, SRAM & Ultegra respectively. They stop so fricking excellently good. I heard mechanical dics don't stop as good as hydraulic but better than rim. But Ultegra IIRC is the first level of hydraulic. Regarding your questions, I'd go w/ the 105 because it's part of the three main groupo's of Shimano. Those look like Mavic Aksium wheels. I've had no issues w/ these which came on my Cannondale. I know nothing of Alex. So 105/mavic is my recommendation.

Unfortunately, none of that is an option at my price range. The Zone has 105 components and the Mavic wheels and has rim brakes. The Esatto has Tiagra components and Hayes mechanical disc brakes with Alex wheels.

I've ridden and owned all of these brands on other bikes. Tiagra is fine, mech disc brakes too. The problem I had with Hayes brakes is they were a pain to adjust. Once they were dialed in they worked great. I'm not sure about these CX comps, but I should be able to deal with them. These are not fancy bikes, but then I never ride fancy bikes. 

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1 minute ago, dennis said:

Unfortunately, none of that is an option at my price range. The Zone has 105 components and the Mavic wheels and has rim brakes. The Esatto has Tiagra components and Hayes mechanical disc brakes with Alex wheels.

I've ridden and owned all of these brands on other bikes. Tiagra is fine, mech disc brakes too. The problem I had with Hayes brakes is they were a pain to adjust. Once they were dialed in they worked great. I'm not sure about these CX comps, but I should be able to deal with them. These are not fancy bikes, but then I never ride fancy bikes. 

I understand :)  I would do the 105 w/ mavic wheels

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16 hours ago, bikeman564™ said:

Because 105 is apart of the 3 main groupos...105, ultegra, dura-ace.  Anything under that IMO is sub par.  And mavic...mavic is good.

Having owned both 105 and Tiagra I see no difference except a few ounces. Sure 105 is now 11 spd and Tiagra is just 10. I'm good with 10. I bet if you removed the labels, most riders could not tell the difference. Mechanically they are the same.

Aksiums are wheels with a Mavic sticker on them. Not a bad wheelset at all, but they are made in China not France. In fact, I bet Alex, being one of the largest wheel makers in the world, is the company that makes them. Alex is not as sexy as Mavic, but I bet the quality is identical. The weight is virtually the same. I'm not sure if it's still the case with new Aksiums, but the old ones required special Mavic tools to service them. 

The Kona Esatto Disc comes with Shimano’s newest Tiagra groupset. Although it’s a notch down from Shimano 105 and his 10-speed rather than 11, you’d be hard-pressed to notice the difference as the brake levers and shifting feel identical to standard 105 and there’s the same gear range. It also comes with mechanical disc brakes, although braking actually feels on a par with Shimano’s hydraulics.

For £1400, the Kona Esatto Disc provides a nice package, with good road feel and manners. It’s comfortable for longer rides and although you can get 105 hydraulic braking and shifting from some other brands at a similar price, you’d be hard-pressed to tell the difference from the Esatto’s Tiagra/mechanical disc brake combination.
Read more at https://www.cyclingweekly.com/reviews/road-bikes/kona-esatto-disc#AHvHQG3i1Mcq5uOi.99
 

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I'd say, if you plan to ever upgrade the parts - piecemeal - the 105 is the right path. If you plan to stick with the bike as is and only replace failing parts with similar bits, the Tiagra is the better cost route. 

I generally upgrade bits and pieces over time, so the 11sp drivetrain has a bit more future-proof built in, but that really only matters if you would be someone who does that sort of incremental  upgrading.

I rode YEARS on 10sp Shimano. It was sufficient. Better than 7, 8, or 9, and a little less than 11.  I'd be fine with 10 speeds again and will be happy with 12 speeds in a few years :D

Tom

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I rode SS for about a decade so I guess any derailleur is an upgrade. 

I've never been one to have the fanciest bike. My most expensive bike now was $1100 new. This one at $900 checks my boxes. 

I used to ride with a group. I rode SS. The rest of the group had fancy carbon rocket ships with all of the bells and whistles. They couldn't drop me unless we were going downhill and I always dropped them going uphill. I'd say the engine is most of your speed. Fancy bikes are nice, but I live on a pretty modest income. A friend of mine just bought an $8k Trek Project One. Beautiful bike. He's a badass and if we swapped bikes, he'd still drop me. It's not the bike. 

I upgrade when things break, and usually is not much of an upgrade. Looking at this bike, I might change the saddle if I don't like the one it comes with and possibly the handlebar to a Salsa Cowbell or Cowchipper because I love those bars. I'll ride it stock until see what I like and don't like. I can't imagine I'd ever upgrade it to 11sp unless everything broke. A whole new drivetrain for one extra gear, no thanks. 

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Sounds like you have a very good idea what you want, and the Tiagra is the one that has it.  

Regarding the upgrade points I made, it is more that the 11sp is MORE upgradeable due to its FORWARD compatibility with existing 11sp stuff.  11 speed is the norm, so if you got the 105, you wouldn't have to upgrade a whole drivetrain, just the single component you want.  With the 10sp route, you would be challenged to "upgrade" versus merely "replace".  Again, this is a "what type of owner are you" question. There is no WRONG answer, just the answer you are happy with :D

To me, knowing that you want a bike like the Esatto, you can use that as a reference point to see if there are similar options out there from other bike manufacturers.  At $900(!!!!), I doubt you will find too many other ones, so you may want to strike while the iron is hot.

Tom 

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I'm not much of an upgrader. If something craps out, I replace it with whatever they have in stock at the LBS. So if they said I needed a new RD and the only 10sp we have in stock is 105, I'd get that. If they had Microshift, I'd get that. I'm not picky.

I rode with a guy who bought his wife a new Fuji road bike with 105. He immediately bought an Ultegra groupset and replaced the 105. It seemed like a monumental waste of time and money to me. I figure there is no way she could tell the difference and the weight savings was a few ounces. 

I'm not sure I could find anything close to the Esatto for $900. It checked a lot of boxes for me. It has disc brakes which I could really use here in the mountains. Some of the descents are 2-8 miles long. It can handle a 32C tire which I like. It has an endurance geometry. I do a lot of solo rides 80-120 miles. I'd rather be comfortable than aero. It's new and much lighter than my existing bike. Almost everything else checking these boxes was $1500 or more. 

I ordered it yesterday. 

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On 7/23/2018 at 6:34 PM, Razors Edge said:

So now we expect photos and a ride report.

Great to hear you pulled the trigger!!!!

Tom

Yesterday, I took it for a short ride to get the adjustments right. Today, I went for a 30 mile ride. I like it. I don't love it. I could get used to it. My current bike is much more comfortable. I prefer the geometry of the Salsa Casseroll to typical road bike geometry. I could get used to it. I could alter it. Maybe I'm just not a roadie. 

It's a pretty bike. I'd like to keep it. I'm not sure about it though. If I kept it, I would not want to sell my Casseroll. Riding a century, I would rather be on my Salsa. On a fast group ride, I would prefer the Kona. 

I did two rides today back to back. The first ride was on the Kona, the second on the Salsa. I was actually faster on the Salsa. Not by much and they were not identical rides. I guess I just prefer my old Salsa to my new Kona. Maybe that helps explain why I prefer vinyl records to digital music. 

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