A Bit Depressing But Makes Me Thankful

[Razors Edge ★]

Sitting in the conference room a few minutes before a meeting kicks off, we all tend to chit chat about various things. Sports, work, vacation, whatever.  Sometimes, it turns to health.  I work daily with a range of middle aged folks - 30s-60s - who are all "professionals" and all college graduates.  When folks start describing their health and the meds they are on, my brain starts wondering if that's "reality" for most people now in the US.  Lately, the one woman I work with was just discussing the meds she needs for her acid reflux (three different ones) which then somehow segued into CPAP usage (two other folks volunteering their experiences with it). It can be bewildering the level of drug intervention folks will adopt instead of lifestyle changes.  It may be a personality type (skeptic?), but I will generally take no drugs unless really really needing them (Nyquil rocks!), and with my dog now on several meds for anxiety, I am shocked at the time and cost of this stuff too.

I blame our "professional" lifestyles - ie sitting at a desk or in meetings for hours at a time - but I know plenty of folks who aren't in that type of work place and they are in the same "pile of pills" cycle.  Obviously aging plays with everyone differently, and crap like cancer really strikes across every demographic and age range, but for the avoidable stuff and the "change your life to live better" stuff, I struggle to not try to impose my inner SquareWheels persona to nudge/push/hurl them towards better eating and more activity. 

Tom

[donkpow]

The 'time of the end' can be marked from when they allowed lawyers to advertise. 

 

[Longjohn ★]

With age I have picked up a number of specialists, oncologist, dermatologist, orthopedic doctors, eye doctors, and had to change PCPs a couple times. They all ask me to list all of my medication I take. They are shocked when I tell them I don’t take ANY. They said everybody my age takes medication. 

[Longjohn ★]

4 minutes ago, donkpow said:

The 'time of the end' can be marked from when they allowed lawyers to advertise. 

 

Ask your doctor if Xyzterra is right for you. Please don’t read about the side effects.

[Indy]

10 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

Ask your doctor if Xyzterra is right for you. Please don’t read about the side effects.

[Kzoo]

I remember reading a piece when I was in my mid 50s that stated 9 out of 10 Americans over the age of 50 are on at least one long term prescription and 99 out of a 100 American over the age of 60 were.  I have filled 2 prescription for myself in the last 35 years.  Both were for pain meds related to injury.  The first I only took one of and the second on I didn't finish (anyone want to buy some oxycontin).

 

[pedalphile]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

 I struggle to not try to impose my inner SquareWheels persona to nudge/push/hurl them towards better eating and more activity. 

Tom

Keep up the struggle, Thom, to do otherwise would be akin to trying to teach a pig to sing. My sis is type 2 diabetic yet her diet continues to be the stuff that led to the condition, despite her doctor's and my pleadings.

[MickinMD ★]

The reasons for more meds these days are due to three things: obesity, better testing and knowledge by professionals, Big Pharma pushing meds where their benefits are questionable.

I'm taking lots of meds for type-II diabetes and high blood pressure - which have been reduced and hopefully that will continue - and I have a BiPAP - a CPAP with two different pressures.

Weight is surely partly responsible for the degree to which I need them, but 17 years ago, at age 51, I was not obese and a high school head cross country coach of a team ranked 12th in the state's AAAA (largest schools) category who ran miles every weekday day with teenagers who were the North County Team Champs and I was faster than some.

I STILL had diabetes and still needed a CPAP back then.  Nearly everyone on my father's side of the family developed type-I or type-II diabetes at some point in their lives, skinny or fat.

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

I struggle to not try to impose my inner SquareWheels persona to nudge/push/hurl them towards better eating and more activity. 

...survival of the fittest.  It's not just what happens in the evolution books.

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, Longjohn said:

Ask your doctor if Xyzterra is right for you. Please don’t read about the side effects.

Don't read about the side effects of anything including aspirin if you don't want to be scared.

On the other hand, medicine is better than it used to be and people live longer because of things they can do in middle age to prolong life.  My father died at age 55 from the complications of extreme high blood pressure.  In my middle age when my doctor and I decided to use a pill once a day to control my blood pressure it probably extended my lifespan considerably.  Among other things that will result in me falling prey to additional old age related diseases that will eventually lead to even more pills.

So while I agree that there are too many out there who jump to a pill for everything, it's also not good to generalize about a no pill life.  Everything is relative to each individuals situation.

[12string]

7 hours ago, donkpow said:

The 'time of the end' can be marked from when they allowed lawyers to advertise. 

 

Absolutely, no question, the biggest reason by far.  Pharma numbers since then are outrageous.

My wife is very active, fit and healthy, but her BP is a couple points higher than what her doctor thinks it outta be, so she takes pills that make her pee, and it annoys her, and being annoyed probably raises her BP a few points.  But the doctor said...... I can't convince her she's just throwing money in the toilet.

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, 12string said:

My wife is very active, fit and healthy, but her BP is a couple points higher than what her doctor thinks it outta be, so she takes pills that make her pee, and it annoys her, and being annoyed probably raises her BP a few points.  But the doctor said...... I can't convince her she's just throwing money in the toilet.

...in fairness, she's not really "throwing" it.

[Scrapr ★]

8 hours ago, donkpow said:

The 'time of the end' can be marked from when they allowed lawyers    drug companies to advertise. 

 

 

[shootingstar]

10 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Sitting in the conference room a few minutes before a meeting kicks off, we all tend to chit chat about various things. Sports, work, vacation, whatever.  Sometimes, it turns to health.  I work daily with a range of middle aged folks - 30s-60s - who are all "professionals" and all college graduates.  When folks start describing their health and the meds they are on, my brain starts wondering if that's "reality" for most people now in the US.  Lately, the one woman I work with was just discussing the meds she needs for her acid reflux (three different ones) which then somehow segued into CPAP usage (two other folks volunteering their experiences with it). It can be bewildering the level of drug intervention folks will adopt instead of lifestyle changes.  It may be a personality type (skeptic?), but I will generally take no drugs unless really really needing them (Nyquil rocks!), and with my dog now on several meds for anxiety, I am shocked at the time and cost of this stuff too.

I blame our "professional" lifestyles - ie sitting at a desk or in meetings for hours at a time - but I know plenty of folks who aren't in that type of work place and they are in the same "pile of pills" cycle.  Obviously aging plays with everyone differently, and crap like cancer really strikes across every demographic and age range, but for the avoidable stuff and the "change your life to live better" stuff, I struggle to not try to impose my inner SquareWheels persona to nudge/push/hurl them towards better eating and more activity. 

Tom

Most people at work, I know don't offer if they are taking some sort of drug.   All are in ages early 30's to early 60's. More early 50's onward.  As for my closest friends I could ask.

I suspect some did have to take some drugs temporarily because they were in a car accident and there were after effects of pain, loss of sleep.

The last drug I took internally was a sleeping pill...which turned out to be a mild anti-depressant drug...to was to get me back to regular sleep.  I weaned myself off the drug after about a month...I really didn't want to become addicted and my doctor said that some patients do get addicted.  I took longer to solve my sleep issues by other sleep habits.  That was 3 years ago.  I took Advil or equivalent ...3 yrs. ago. When I get a headache I know it's 1 of the following causes:  stress, sleeping position was wrong or I didn't do body stretches to relax my upper body.

In my own family, only my mother takes 2 different medications regularily.  My siblings not yet... they are all in 50's.  There are several health care professionals in my family, so that plus some attention to food selection, probably is staving off stuff for now.

Sadly my niece subjected herself at the advice of psychiatrists to all sorts of drugs for her depression in the past.  She finally said no to all...and stopped feeling bad for not listening to specialists.  Her turning point....was to focus on her novel writing.  I really stress that drugs for mental illness for some sharp, highly intelligent people makes them groggy, even more dysfunctional and unproductive...and becomes a vicious circle.

[Ralphie ★]

While you might be able to avoid BP and cholesterol meds with lifestyle, you should do a "make before break" and take them until or if you get healthy enough to drop them, since both conditions are silent killers.

Similar with CPAP.  I avoided it for years thinking I would loose weight first to see if that fixed the problem, but once I gave in and started using one, I sleep marvelously, which is one of the best things you can do for your health.  It is hard to say, but I don't think my problem will be solved with weight loss, but just like the other things, I'll try to sleep without it once I get to target weight, but I can almost guarantee the weight is not the problem. I think it is just the way my throat is built.  Just a wild ass guess though - hopefully we'll see.  I am an evangelist for CPAP because I feel so great when I use it.  Plus, I saw the graphs of low oxygen overnight and it was eye-opening!  I like oxygen in my blood!

I do  agree that desk jobs are bad for you though!

[Longjohn ★]

11 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

I like oxygen in my blood!

 

Love is like oxygen.

[Longjohn ★]

 

[Prophet Zacharia]

49 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

While you might be able to avoid BP and cholesterol meds with lifestyle

Lifestyle certainly helps, but so much of lipid metabolism is governed by genetics. That’s why healthy 19 year olds who got shot in Vietnam had signs of significant arthrosclerotic heart disease. We’d have never known this because we wouldn’t be doing open heart surgery if not for the war trauma, but that is the lesson that was learned.

[2Far ★]

Yeah, I sometimes struggle with my workouts (duration & frequency) but I think I'm on the good side of the bell curve for my age. 

Then I go to the airport (WalMart!) and I'm close to Superman. LOL. 

OTOH. I got this second tier heart that has some issues, so I take my meds and maybe I get to see this new grand young'un graduate college. Or preschool. 

Dunno my paternal heritage (that's why I just sent in the DNA) and I'm about to turn older than mom reached. Genetics can be a bitch, ask Jim Fixx. 

[Dottleshead ★]

12 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Sitting in the conference room a few minutes before a meeting kicks off, we all tend to chit chat about various things. Sports, work, vacation, whatever.  Sometimes, it turns to health.  I work daily with a range of middle aged folks - 30s-60s - who are all "professionals" and all college graduates.  When folks start describing their health and the meds they are on, my brain starts wondering if that's "reality" for most people now in the US.  Lately, the one woman I work with was just discussing the meds she needs for her acid reflux (three different ones) which then somehow segued into CPAP usage (two other folks volunteering their experiences with it). It can be bewildering the level of drug intervention folks will adopt instead of lifestyle changes.  It may be a personality type (skeptic?), but I will generally take no drugs unless really really needing them (Nyquil rocks!), and with my dog now on several meds for anxiety, I am shocked at the time and cost of this stuff too.

I blame our "professional" lifestyles - ie sitting at a desk or in meetings for hours at a time - but I know plenty of folks who aren't in that type of work place and they are in the same "pile of pills" cycle.  Obviously aging plays with everyone differently, and crap like cancer really strikes across every demographic and age range, but for the avoidable stuff and the "change your life to live better" stuff, I struggle to not try to impose my inner SquareWheels persona to nudge/push/hurl them towards better eating and more activity. 

Tom

Sedentary lifestyles are killers.  Sedentary lifestyles near Chinatown are double killers.  Working in the tech business is a killer.  Working in the city is a killer.  I was one to refuse meds but looking back I think maybe that was wrong.  I certainly am willing to do whatever I can to reverse it but its hard to fault people too much when their lives have been reduced into staring at 30 inch monitor screens.  Still, I am willing to do whatever it takes now to stay and rid myself of any meds possible.  My diet's changed.  My physical activity is changing.  Mainly my diet's changed and that arguably is one of the best things I can do.  But facts are Thomas -- and you can pout, scream, and deny until your blue in the face -- your body changes as you get older and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.  Oh sure, you can stave it off and maybe gain some years or slow down the really bad stuff but sooner or later you're going to be cornered into taking the drugs or not.  I chose to not to take them and that "probably" was a mistake.  I'm just saying, in 20 or 30 years from now you may rethink your positioning on it.  And if -- ahem -- when you change, I won't hold ya to the fire.  Trust me, my goal was not to be where I am at today.  Life happened.

[Tizeye]

While taking a minimal BP and Cholesterol, both appear to be in control based on labs done last week. Was OK on BP...until they changed the standard a few months ago. Rather than upping dosage, Dr added a diuretic. I see the cardiologist Thursday and tell him that I D/C the diuretic a month ago. While not allergic to any medication, have had adverse reactions with two. I guess there is a difference between "allergic" and "adverse reaction".  Several years ago took Niacin. Woke up pins and needles, itching all over and when looked in mirror, very drawn skin and sunken eyes where appeared to be 90 y/o. It freaked me out! Then there was the diuretic, yes BP did drop 5 points...but had 2 instances of swollen, fluid filled knee. Went to orthopedic surgeon who was suggesting surgery of knees his greeting to me was hoping his looked that good when he was my age and any Meniscus tear wasn't obvious on an x-ray, but showed some internally (not protruding) on MRI. For second opinion (and prior to the MRI) brought it up during annual VA physical and they sent me to PT. Also noted on the MRI was some small unknown foreign object floating around. Got better, swelling receeded then flared up just before trip to Europe. Dr drained it and cortisone shot and left open the surgery depending on how I felt upon return. Basically, it was my call. Two technicians in the Dr's office (one fitting my wife for a knee brace) heard the symptoms and state "That's gout". Mentioned it to the doctor which he denied, but I did research. Gout was a side effect of the diuretic (which the technician would not have known I was taking) and one of the symptoms was crystallization around the joint which would describe the foreign object in the MRI. I quit taking the diuretic in July...and have never had a recurrence.

[Ralphie ★]

8 hours ago, Longjohn said:

Love is like oxygen.

But is oxygen like love?  Only Plato knows for sure I guess!

[maddmaxx ★]

9 hours ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

While you might be able to avoid BP and cholesterol meds with lifestyle, you should do a "make before break" and take them until or if you get healthy enough to drop them, since both conditions are silent killers.

Similar with CPAP.  I avoided it for years thinking I would loose weight first to see if that fixed the problem, but once I gave in and started using one, I sleep marvelously, which is one of the best things you can do for your health.  It is hard to say, but I don't think my problem will be solved with weight loss, but just like the other things, I'll try to sleep without it once I get to target weight, but I can almost guarantee the weight is not the problem. I think it is just the way my throat is built.  Just a wild ass guess though - hopefully we'll see.  I am an evangelist for CPAP because I feel so great when I use it.  Plus, I saw the graphs of low oxygen overnight and it was eye-opening!  I like oxygen in my blood!

I do  agree that desk jobs are bad for you though!

The cardiologist that supervised my last stress test informed me that BP isn't quite as well linked to weight as popular thought would have it. I've lost a lot of weight over the last decade without affecting my genetic disposition very much.

Her statement:  8 lbs lost is worth just one point reduction in BP.  IMO there is a lot more going on with the quality of your arteries and blood vessels.

[Razors Edge ★]

11 hours ago, Dottles said:

Sedentary lifestyles are killers.  Sedentary lifestyles near Chinatown are double killers.  Working in the tech business is a killer.  Working in the city is a killer.  I was one to refuse meds but looking back I think maybe that was wrong.  I certainly am willing to do whatever I can to reverse it but its hard to fault people too much when their lives have been reduced into staring at 30 inch monitor screens.  Still, I am willing to do whatever it takes now to stay and rid myself of any meds possible.  My diet's changed.  My physical activity is changing.  Mainly my diet's changed and that arguably is one of the best things I can do.  But facts are Thomas -- and you can pout, scream, and deny until your blue in the face -- your body changes as you get older and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.  Oh sure, you can stave it off and maybe gain some years or slow down the really bad stuff but sooner or later you're going to be cornered into taking the drugs or not.  I chose to not to take them and that "probably" was a mistake.  I'm just saying, in 20 or 30 years from now you may rethink your positioning on it.  And if -- ahem -- when you change, I won't hold ya to the fire.  Trust me, my goal was not to be where I am at today.  Life happened.

I have two parents alive because of medical and pharmaceutical interventions.  I have sister alive because of medical and pharmaceutical interventions. I have a young niece alive because of medical and pharmaceutical interventions. I have step-mother with MS who is alive likely due to pharmaceutical interventions.  I'm not anti-medical or anti-pharmaceutical use.

But if there are ALTERNATIVES, especially within my control, with fewer (if any) side-effects and real long-term benefits, then I am all in, regardless of whether it actually requires me to put in some effort beyond filling a glass with water and taking a pill.

Do people need to take medicine? Sure. Do people take medicine in lieu of making other changes? Sure.  Do I think many (or most) folks would benefit from choosing to look at their situation and re-evaluating their balance of drug intake to lifestyle change? You bet.

Tom

[Dottleshead ★]

Yep.  Stay off the drugs.  I'm not dedicated to changing my life and losing all this weight because I want to stay on the drugs.  I take 2 medications now -- and both I believe I can get off of if I continue to drop weight by end of year.

[Randomguy]

On 8/21/2018 at 8:35 AM, Razors Edge said:

Sitting in the conference room a few minutes before a meeting kicks off, we all tend to chit chat about various things. Sports, work, vacation, whatever.  Sometimes, it turns to health.  I work daily with a range of middle aged folks - 30s-60s - who are all "professionals" and all college graduates.  When folks start describing their health and the meds they are on, my brain starts wondering if that's "reality" for most people now in the US.  Lately, the one woman I work with was just discussing the meds she needs for her acid reflux (three different ones) which then somehow segued into CPAP usage (two other folks volunteering their experiences with it). It can be bewildering the level of drug intervention folks will adopt instead of lifestyle changes.  It may be a personality type (skeptic?), but I will generally take no drugs unless really really needing them (Nyquil rocks!), and with my dog now on several meds for anxiety, I am shocked at the time and cost of this stuff too.

I blame our "professional" lifestyles - ie sitting at a desk or in meetings for hours at a time - but I know plenty of folks who aren't in that type of work place and they are in the same "pile of pills" cycle.  Obviously aging plays with everyone differently, and crap like cancer really strikes across every demographic and age range, but for the avoidable stuff and the "change your life to live better" stuff, I struggle to not try to impose my inner SquareWheels persona to nudge/push/hurl them towards better eating and more activity. 

Tom

I would say that many of us have sort of self-selected to be active because drugs haven’t interfered with our abilities to be active, so our prism is skewed slightly.  

That said, I had bad knees and arthritis when I was 16, and never took medication, I just dealt with it.  I was on the wrestling team and played baseball, and was massively active.  My diet was crap, all sugar, no veg unless it was fries. 

I started eating better about 15-18 years ago, and have been eating better and better over the years.  A few years ago my joint problems have gotten worse despite much improved diet and regular activity, and I have started taking Aleve, and feel really achey and in pain without it.  

It really is probably a matter of time before I have to take something stronger, despite taking better care than the vast majority of Americans and Canadian bastards. 

Anyway, sometimes it is luck of the draw, sometimes it is what you do and don’t do, and sometimes it is both or neither.  

[Dottleshead ★]

That's what I'm talking about. I appreciate the Tom strong man approach to not wanting to be on drugs but your case and many others like it make not taking them a worse option. Arthritis is just one such example. My father hates drugs and his degenerative arthritis should have had him on ibuprofen years ago. But he refused to take it like I refused statens. At some point it becomes moronic not to take them.

[petitepedal ★]

Why I dread looking for a new primary care physician. My doc was on top of my family history and concerns from day 1...I try to maintain a fairly healthy diet..but I am realistic and yeah eat fun but not so good for you foods now and then. I am doing my best to stay off meds..not sure my new doc will be as lenient with cholesterol numbers (I love cheese damn it)...However, I also know that having to take a med isn't the end of the world...

[ChrisL]

1 hour ago, Dottles said:

That's what I'm talking about. I appreciate the Tom strong man approach to not wanting to be on drugs but your case and many others like it make not taking them a worse option. Arthritis is just one such example. My father hates drugs and his degenerative arthritis should have had him on ibuprofen years ago. But he refused to take it like I refused statens. At some point it becomes moronic not to take them.

This is pretty much me.  I eat really well now and lost a bunch of weight and am maintaining but my glucose values are just "normal".  I've been on statins for 15+ years and my cholesterol is just normal too.  

Should I stop taking meds I'd be an active dude who eats well with high glucose and cholesterol... 

[Razors Edge ★]

5 hours ago, ChrisL said:

This is pretty much me.  I eat really well now and lost a bunch of weight and am maintaining but my glucose values are just "normal".  I've been on statins for 15+ years and my cholesterol is just normal too.  

Should I stop taking meds I'd be an active dude who eats well with high glucose and cholesterol...  

So, can you get by with a statin and a glucose medicine? In other words, just two meds? Or, do you need a series of pills to achieve your goal?  Likewise, is there any weight/shape/condition you could be in where either of those issues could be controlled as well but without meds?

Statins are one of those meds that doctors basically say ALL people over 65 or 70 should automatically be taking. The negatives are far outweighed by the positives.  I luckily have not gotten to the age where I need to decide if that is the path I want to go down.

Tom

[ChrisL]

24 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

So, can you get by with a statin and a glucose medicine? In other words, just two meds? Or, do you need a series of pills to achieve your goal?  Likewise, is there any weight/shape/condition you could be in where either of those issues could be controlled as well but without meds?

Statins are one of those meds that doctors basically say ALL people over 65 or 70 should automatically be taking. The negatives are far outweighed by the positives.  I luckily have not gotten to the age where I need to decide if that is the path I want to go down.

Tom

Well I take a BP med that is commonly prescribed with metformin for liver function even tho my BP is fine.  Oral Diabetes meds 2X a day, statin 1X a day.

Yeah I dunno.  My diet is pretty tight. I'm 5' 11, 205 lbs, Lg Shirts 35" waist. I could go lower but not sure what it would do to my numbers.

Also, I was diagnosed prediabetic in my 30's when I was in great shape and running marathons.  I started on statins around then too as my cholesterol has been high nearly all my adult life.  I honestly don't know if I could come off meds with lifestyle changes but I do think I would have a crappy quality of life if I tried to live that restrictive a lifestyle.

[shootingstar]

I'm not taking any strong woman approach.  I'm just is...

 

[Dottleshead ★]

On 8/21/2018 at 5:17 PM, Longjohn said:

 

Classic.

[Dottleshead ★]

Another classic. @AirwickWithCheese what's the consensus on these 70s rockstar hair dews?

 

[maddmaxx ★]

8 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

So, can you get by with a statin and a glucose medicine? In other words, just two meds? Or, do you need a series of pills to achieve your goal?  Likewise, is there any weight/shape/condition you could be in where either of those issues could be controlled as well but without meds?

Statins are one of those meds that doctors basically say ALL people over 65 or 70 should automatically be taking. The negatives are far outweighed by the positives.  I luckily have not gotten to the age where I need to decide if that is the path I want to go down.

Tom

Don't bet on the positives outweighing the negatives.  Statins can be useful but should be looked at with care.  The concept that "All people over 65 or 70 should automatically be taking them" is a very scary concept.  It defies the common sense involved in taking only what is necessary.  These are the sorts of statements that lead people into thinking that they can do whatever they want and a pill will make up for it.

[sheep_herder ★]

Be nice if I could quit taking the 3 meds a day for allergies, but I'd be itching so much that I might lose some skin as well as having runny eyes and nose.  Yes, my career as a range scientist and raising livestock at home do not help my allergy situation, but I've had allergies since the 40s. My diabetes does not bother me as much as my allergies.

[Longjohn ★]

50 minutes ago, sheep_herder said:

I've had allergies since the 40s.

My mom had allergies all her life until she got leukemia. After her cancer treatment she had no more allergies.

[onbike1939]

It may be that after a couple of heart attacks statins kept me alive but on the other hand, they were responsible for a host of other problems and I never felt wholly human until I stopped taking them. I found out since that ones genetics determine the number of side-effects experienced.