If There Was A Plant-Based Steak

[Razors Edge ★]

...or burger that tasted, cooked, and "felt" IDENTICAL to a cow-based steak or burger, would you buy it exclusively? Or would you stick with the cow one? Or alternate? Assumes same price and availability.

I would, but I think many wouldn't.

Tom

[pedalphile]

I would, Thom. Already there are things like the Miracle Burger that are claimed to be in that league. Anyone reasonable would do as we, but of course if it ever gets going the thread will be full of diehards who say Over my dead body, just as they say You'll have to tear it out of my dead hand.

[Ralphie ★]

Two words - broccoli raab. While it doesn't taste just like steak, many of us afficianadoes say it is better than steak.

signed,

Ralph "left field" mooseworth

[Razors Edge ★]

5 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

I would, Thom. Already there are things like the Miracle Burger that are claimed to be in that league. Anyone reasonable would do as we, but of course if it ever gets going the thread will be full of diehards who say Over my dead body, just as they say You'll have to tear it out of my dead hand. 

Yeah, we have ones like the Impossible Burger that is actually the genesis of my question. They claim to have started from the standpoint of winning hardcore burger/meat lovers to their product versus appealing to veggie burger eaters.  If they could convince a true meat lover, then they could easily scale out much further into the animal meat market (more lucrative and way larger).  Next steps for them is steak, chicken, etc., so I was wondering how set in their ways meat eaters are versus willing to adapt and change their eating habits.

Tom

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

Two words - broccoli raab. While it doesn't taste just like steak, many of us afficianadoes say it is better than steak.

signed,

Ralph "left field" mooseworth

For you, Ralph, I would ask if you would eat a meat-based substitute in place of the broccoli rabe if it was available?  It looked, tasted, was prepared, and "felt" exactly like your broccoli rabe, but was from a cow and not the soil?

Tom

[Zephyr]

My wife only buys the veggie burger at "Harvey's", a Canadian hamburger chain and the best (imo) fast food burger.  I have to admit, blind tasting, you cannot tell the difference between it and their regular hamburger.  I always get the regular, so I guess the answer to your question is "No, I wouldn't"

In my defence, I do not eat a lot of red meat and tend to be a "everything in moderation" kind of guy

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, Zephyr said:

My wife only buys the veggie burger at "Harvey's", a Canadian hamburger chain and the best (imo) fast food burger.  I have to admit, blind tasting, you cannot tell the difference between it and their regular hamburger.  I always get the regular, so I guess the answer to your question is "No, I wouldn't"

In my defence, I do not eat a lot of red meat and tend to be a "everything in moderation" kind of guy 

What's funny is that at my "local" burger joint, I get the vegan veggie burger (usually), even though the Impossible is on the menu.  It makes sense to me that Impossible is attacking it from the other direction - ie more likely for meat eaters to look for healthier/"better" alternatives than the veggie eaters to look the other direction.

Tom

[Randomguy]

19 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

I would, Thom. Already there are things like the Miracle Burger that are claimed to be in that league. Anyone reasonable would do as we, but of course if it ever gets going the thread will be full of diehards who say Over my dead body, just as they say You'll have to tear it out of my dead hand.

I have had the miracle burger earlier in the summer when my vegan niece was out for a visit.  The waiter swore up and down it was the same, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference, blah, blah, blah.

Well, I will say that it is definitely easy to tell the difference, as meat just tastes much better.  The miracle burger did taste good, so it is not like a crappy garden burger or anything.  If you were a vegan for years it would probably taste pretty close to meat, though.  That said, most times I would reach for the real burger, because, like I said, it tastes much better, and is a far more concentrated source of nutrition.  There would be some times I might want the miracle burger, like if I wanted something lighter.  Anyone who tells you it is the same is delusional or lying to themselves, but it is pretty good.

 

[Wilbur ★]

No.  Only because my current diet wouldn't allow it.   I have eaten veggie burgers in the past and don't mind them at all. 

[Razors Edge ★]

10 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I have had the miracle burger earlier in the summer when my vegan niece was out for a visit.  The waiter swore up and down it was the same, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference, blah, blah, blah.

Well, I will say that it is definitely easy to tell the difference, as meat just tastes much better.  The miracle burger did taste good, so it is not like a crappy garden burger or anything.  If you were a vegan for years it would probably taste pretty close to meat, though.  That said, most times I would reach for the real burger, because, like I said, it tastes much better, and is a far more concentrated source of nutrition.  There would be some times I might want the miracle burger, like if I wanted something lighter.  Anyone who tells you it is the same is delusional or lying to themselves, but it is pretty good.

You should hit up Momofuku Nishi for lunch.  Try the Impossible instead of the "Miracle".

A funny quote from the Impossible guy - not truly accurate - was that cows and cow meat are pretty much done evolving.  His meat, though, gets better every day.  Interesting approach to the idea.

Tom

[dinneR ★]

If I eat a vegetarian dish, I don't want it to taste like meat. I like veggie burgers, but not because they taste like meat, but because they have their own flavor. 

[jsharr ★]

Think of all the out of work Cowboys.

[pedalphile]

1 minute ago, dennis said:

If I eat a vegetarian dish, I don't want it to taste like meat. I like veggie burgers, but not because they taste like meat, but because they have their own flavor. 

A fair point well made. I used to have a favourite dry mix I bought to make burgers, it was called Five Grains Burger Mix, it didn't taste like meat but I had a very meat loving pal (he ate red meat for dinner every night, would have a meaty lunch most days, and bacon and sausages for breakfast every morning sort of guy) who liked the stuff in its own right. sadly they stopped making that burger mix.

[pedalphile]

4 minutes ago, jsharr said:

Think of all the out of work Cowboys.

You asshat.

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, dennis said:

If I eat a vegetarian dish, I don't want it to taste like meat. I like veggie burgers, but not because they taste like meat, but because they have their own flavor. 

Yep - that seems to be why Impossible is going at it from the other direction.  You generally don't need to make a vegetarian dish "healthier", so your not adding value sneaking meat into a veggie dish. The flip side of that isn't the case.

Tom

[late]

They're working on vat grown meat.

[KrAzY]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

...or burger that tasted, cooked, and "felt" IDENTICAL to a cow-based steak or burger, would you buy it exclusively? Or would you stick with the cow one? Or alternate? Assumes same price and availability.

I would, but I think many wouldn't.

Tom

Beyond meat makes a sausage, and a burger. It is all plant-based fake meat, and one of our top sellers for the vegans that want something that looks and tastes like a burger.. guess they aslo add beet juice to give the look of blood.

I had a non vegie head try it and said the texture is like a real burger.

[Randomguy]

16 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Try the Impossible instead of the "Miracle".

Impossible/Miracle, whatever.  It was the one all the vegans were shitting themselves in happiness over, the one that would change the world.  

[pedalphile]

51 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Impossible/Miracle, whatever.  It was the one all the vegans were shitting themselves in happiness over, the one that would change the world.  

This thread cries out for some derision of vegans and now we have it ?

[Guest]

You are what you eat. Cows eat plants, therefore they are plant based?

[Wilbur ★]

10 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

This thread cries out for some derision of vegans and now we have it ?

It is good to deride some group.  Snowflakes are on tomorrows menu.  

[Razors Edge ★]

57 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Impossible/Miracle, whatever.  It was the one all the vegans were shitting themselves in happiness over, the one that would change the world.  

Yeah -- they jumped the gun.  It is sort of like the first auto or first airplane.  Folks were pretty ecstatic and jubilant in the breakthrough, but really, how many folks are rolling around in an early Daimler or a flying bicycle contraption? On the flip side, freakish weights and fast growth aside, a cattle farmer from 1900 would recognize a cow from 2018 and wouldn't likely see too many revolutionary changes to it.

Plant-based burgers clearly have great short-term and long-term growth potential. Your own experience shows that potential. I'd take bets that in ten years from now, a blind taste test would prove how similar the plant and animal burgers (and probably steaks) have come to be.

Tom

[Page Turner]

2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

If There Was A Plant-Based Steak

...this already exists. Cows are plant based.

[Page Turner]

15 minutes ago, Zackny said:

You are what you eat. Cows eat plants, therefore they are plant based?

...oops, sorry I missed that one. That was exactly my first reaction too.  Grass ---->Cow---->Slaughterhouse----->Steak.  This is not rocket science.

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

Impossible/Miracle, whatever.  It was the one all the vegans were shitting themselves in happiness over, the one that would change the world.  

...I'm OK with the world as it presents itself.  I don't adapt well to change.

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...I'm OK with the world as it presents itself.  I don't adapt well to change.

Are you one of Maxx's puppets? I didn't get the vibe Maxx was handy with a wrench, but he does have some striking similarities.

Tom

[Razors Edge ★]

8 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...oops, sorry I missed that one. That was exactly my first reaction too.  Grass ---->Cow---->Slaughterhouse----->Steak.  This is not rocket science.

You know that "grass" comes from some other things as well? So, you can't just start at "grass" if you want to use that tired argument.

Tom

[Square Wheels]

1 hour ago, KrAzY said:

Beyond meat makes a sausage, and a burger. It is all plant-based fake meat, and one of our top sellers for the vegans that want something that looks and tastes like a burger.. guess they aslo add beet juice to give the look of blood.

I had a non vegie head try it and said the texture is like a real burger.

Those are pretty good.  No, it is not a burger and cannot fool people into thinking it is, but it is good for someone who chooses not to eat meat.  I cook them on a pan, add a little teriyaki then a little fake cheese.  Yummy.

[Page Turner]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

You know that "grass" comes from some other things as well? So, you can't just start at "grass" if you want to use that tired argument.

Tom

...fine: Dirt--->Grass ---->Cow---->Manure--->More Grass--->Slaughterhouse----->Steak---->Me---->Dirt

 

I'm reading this fascinating old piece right now by Carl O Sauer on the human impacts on the geography of prehistoric America. there's an entire section on the origin and evolution of the grasses, along with speculation about the impacts of early hominids on the ecology that resulted in our North American plains grasslands.  It all seems to be pretty plant based to me, just different way of using them.

[Page Turner]

4 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Those are pretty good.  No, it is not a burger and cannot fool people into thinking it is, but it is good for someone who chooses not to eat meat.  I cook them on a pan, add a little teriyaki then a little fake cheese.  Yummy.

...there was a woman selling cauliflower crust pizza at that Saturday street market. I immediately thought of you as I ran toward the meat dumpling woman.

[Page Turner]

12 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Are you one of Maxx's puppets? I didn't get the vibe Maxx was handy with a wrench, but he does have some striking similarities.

Tom

...we are all the product of one imagination, but who is the "puppet" ?

[Square Wheels]

2 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...there was a woman selling cauliflower crust pizza at that Saturday street market. I immediately thought of you as I ran toward the meat dumpling woman.

You should have tried it.  It's not pizza, but it can be really tasty. 

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Square Wheels said:

You should have tried it.  It's not pizza, but it can be really tasty.  

Heck - New Yorkers and Chicagoans can't agree on what is "pizza". 

Tom

[Page Turner]

1 minute ago, Square Wheels said:

You should have tried it.  It's not pizza, but it can be really tasty. 

...I might if I go back.  I made myself a little sick eating too many of those meat dumplings.

[Randomguy]

37 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Yeah -- they jumped the gun.  It is sort of like the first auto or first airplane.  Folks were pretty ecstatic and jubilant in the breakthrough, but really, how many folks are rolling around in an early Daimler or a flying bicycle contraption? On the flip side, freakish weights and fast growth aside, a cattle farmer from 1900 would recognize a cow from 2018 and wouldn't likely see too many revolutionary changes to it.

Plant-based burgers clearly have great short-term and long-term growth potential. Your own experience shows that potential. I'd take bets that in ten years from now, a blind taste test would prove how similar the plant and animal burgers (and probably steaks) have come to be.

I don't know that it will ever be possible to duplicate the taste and texture of meat, and certainly not the nutrition punch it delivers.  It really has come to be much better, and is an alternative, but it isn't analogous.

50 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

This thread cries out for some derision of vegans and now we have it ?

???

[Chris...]

https://cleanmeat.org/

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I don't know that it will ever be possible to duplicate the taste and texture of meat, and certainly not the nutrition punch it delivers.  It really has come to be much better, and is an alternative, but it isn't analogous.

You're basing that opinion on a SEVEN year old start up's product?  Seven years is an awful short span of time, and most would actually say that they have gotten pretty close in a brief span of time.  I can't think of a reason to doubt the likelihood of the taste and texture matching beef in the next decade, and the nutritional punch being equal or better as well. Maybe not Miracle or Impossible or Beyond Meat, but someone!

Tom

[Randomguy]

7 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

You should have tried it.  It's not pizza, but it can be really tasty. 

I have tried the cauliflower crust from Trader Joe's, it is for someone else.  \I will sometimes just skip the crust entirely and lay down a base of pizza vegetation, tomato sauce and real cheese, and bake until it is caramelized.  It is nicer than the one cauliflower crust I tried.  I admit it was a small sample, though, and I am sure I will end up trying it again at some point, maybe out of necessity.

9 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Heck - New Yorkers and Chicagoans can't agree on what is "pizza". 

Tom

Pizza = crust, cheese, and red sauce.  Anything without those three building blocks is not real pizza.  I like both Chicago and NYC style pizza, and some others, too.

[Page Turner]

...there was a really, really excellent Vietnamese restaurant here, Andy Ngyuen's. that went through some sort of family squabble and dissolution of the partnership.  It ended up that the people who got the original restaurant (there were three) decided to go with an all vegetarian menu. They used some horrible fake meat stuff made from soy in various forms to simulate pork, beef, chicken.  It was just dreadful stuff.

 

I never understood why they didn't just go with the vegetables and leave out that crap.  Asian cooking in general is very vegetable friendly, and the quality of the local produce here is exceptional. 

[Randomguy]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

You're basing that opinion on a SEVEN year old start up's product?  Seven years is an awful short span of time, and most would actually say that they have gotten pretty close in a brief span of time.  I can't think of a reason to doubt the likelihood of the taste and texture matching beef in the next decade, and the nutritional punch being equal or better as well. Maybe not Miracle or Impossible or Beyond Meat, but someone!

Yes, but it isn't a 7 year old industry.  Deranged or misguided people (there is your derision, Ped) have been trying to make a faux burger taste like a real burger for multiple decades at least.  Moore's law inversion here.  Even if you close half the distance each year, you'll never get there.

How much bizarre food processing went into that product, too?  Monsanto will soon be involved, I am sure of it.

[Randomguy]

24 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Those are pretty good.  No, it is not a burger and cannot fool people into thinking it is, but it is good for someone who chooses not to eat meat.  I cook them on a pan, add a little teriyaki then a little fake cheese.  Yummy.

How dare you appear reasonable!!!!  

 

[Page Turner]

3 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Yes, but it isn't a 7 year old industry.  Deranged or misguided people (there is your derision, Ped) have been trying to make a faux burger taste like a real burger for multiple decades at least.  Moore's law inversion here.  Even if you close half the distance each year, you'll never get there.

How much bizarre food processing went into that product, too?  Monsanto will soon be involved, I am sure of it.

...the best fake burger product I've ever eaten was made mostly from mushrooms, The Original Gardenburger.

You can't hardly find them for sale around here any more, I think because people tend to buy the bean burgers for the protein content...which is a mistake.

[Square Wheels]

10 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

How dare you appear reasonable!!!!  

 

You expecting something different from a vegan?  We're a peaceful bunch, live and let live, no preaching.

[Randomguy]

24 minutes ago, Chris... said:

https://cleanmeat.org/

I don't know how I feel about this.  I am sure I would try it, though.  

Humans sure have turned into a bunch of wusses, though.

[Razors Edge ★]

5 hours ago, Randomguy said:

Yes, but it isn't a 7 year old industry.  Deranged or misguided people (there is your derision, Ped) have been trying to make a faux burger taste like a real burger for multiple decades at least.  Moore's law inversion here.  Even if you close half the distance each year, you'll never get there.

How much bizarre food processing went into that product, too?  Monsanto will soon be involved, I am sure of it.

Huh???? Why would they be only closing a set amount? The goal is to have all the positives that folks claim they want in a burger or steak - taste, texture, cooking process, etc. - with a reduction or removal of the negatives. That hardly implies there is some odd halving ad infinitum, but rather a catch and surpass model.  And if Monsanto is already involved in the burger & steak process, why would you care if it was still involved in the new alternative method???

Just say you won't eat it on moral grounds and move on. It ain't too complicated.

Tom

[Razors Edge ★]

5 hours ago, Randomguy said:

I don't know how I feel about this.  I am sure I would try it, though.  

Humans sure have turned into a bunch of wusses, though. 

Did we peak in the mid-70's?  Disco was the apex? God knows we have a ways to go before we hit the wimpy days of the 1940s and 50s. 

tom

[Page Turner]

7 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Did we peak in the mid-70's?  Disco was the apex?

...yes, pretty much.  Now you begin to understand my dismay and general pessimism. Brawndo: it's got what plants need.

 

 

 

[Further]

Most  steak is plant based. People seem to get squeamish about eating predators.  

[Page Turner]

....Vicki Sue looks like she was living on a diet of Black Beauties and Bolivian marching powder.

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...yes, pretty much.  Now you begin to understand my dismay and general pessimism

Probably the greatest 4th of July ever was the Bicentennial one!  That WAS AWESOME.  I was but a kid, and even I knew it was a great one.

Tom