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Kzoo

By Kzoo
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Rattlecan Domestique

Rattlecan ★

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

I stole borrowed it from a post on @Rattlecan's Cycling Over Fifty FB page.

 

#therearenomoreoriginalthoughts

Yeah, it has popped up there a couple of times. I thought it was funny, but e-bike discussion is always divisive over there, so I had to plonk it.Too late as it turned out, the name calling was well under way.

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Kzoo Flahute

Kzoo

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Just now, Rattlecan said:

Yeah, it has popped up there a couple of times. I thought it was funny, but e-bike discussion is always divisive over there, so I had to plonk it.Too late as it turned out, the name calling was well under way.

I don't understand the love/hate thing for e-bikes.  If someone wants to ride one, why do I care.  If someone doesn't want to ride one, why do I care.  I understand people like DH who doesn't want them on her single track for any of several reasons but for general rec riding - it isn't worth a fight.

BTW - you do a great job of running that page.  

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Dottleshead Flahute

Dottleshead ★

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The only way I would consider getting one -- where they make a lot of sense -- is commuting,.  I have a lot of hills where I moved to and it took biking as an option off the radar.  I'm not waking up another hour early to get all sweaty to catch a bus for an hour.  But I totally see having one if I can get to the bus transit station in less than 20 minutes without soiling myself or looking like total hell and smelling like it when I get to work.  For this reason alone, I am considering it,.

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Dirtyhip Flahute

Dirtyhip

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17 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

I don't understand the love/hate thing for e-bikes.  If someone wants to ride one, why do I care.  If someone doesn't want to ride one, why do I care.  I understand people like DH who doesn't want them on her single track for any of several reasons but for general rec riding - it isn't worth a fight.

BTW - you do a great job of running that page.  

It isn't my single track.  It is everyone's single track.  E-Bikes are killing our advocacy fight for being allowed in pristine places.  They are basically electric mopeds. 

Sustainable Trails Coalition is fighting for our inclusion to wilderness.  We don't need E-Mopeds ruining our voice in that fight. 

Also, I was almost hit by one on the bike path.  Some of the people on these bikes can't ride very well, and now they have added speed.  It is an ugly combo in certain locations.  They only belong with other motorized vehicles.

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ChrisL KOM / QOM

ChrisL

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27 minutes ago, Dottles said:

The only way I would consider getting one -- where they make a lot of sense -- is commuting,.  I have a lot of hills where I moved to and it took biking as an option off the radar.  I'm not waking up another hour early to get all sweaty to catch a bus for an hour.  But I totally see having one if I can get to the bus transit station in less than 20 minutes without soiling myself or looking like total hell and smelling like it when I get to work.  For this reason alone, I am considering it,.

This, considering one for the same reasons.

3 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

It isn't my single track.  It is everyone's single track.  E-Bikes are killing our advocacy fight for being allowed in pristine places.  They are basically electric mopeds. 

Sustainable Trails Coalition is fighting for our inclusion to wilderness.  We don't need E-Mopeds ruining our voice in that fight. 

Also, I was almost hit by one on the bike path.  Some of the people on these bikes can't ride very well, and now they have added speed.  It is an ugly combo in certain locations.  They only belong with other motorized vehicles.

This too.  I was On a mixed use trail recently with numerous hikers and heard a whoooooosh.  Dude on an E bike going about 20 mph on a trail I was doing about 6 mph on. He had no business on that trail on that bike going that fast.

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Kzoo Flahute

Kzoo

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13 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

It isn't my single track.  It is everyone's single track.  E-Bikes are killing our advocacy fight for being allowed in pristine places.  They are basically electric mopeds. 

Sustainable Trails Coalition is fighting for our inclusion to wilderness.  We don't need E-Mopeds ruining our voice in that fight. 

Also, I was almost hit by one on the bike path.  Some of the people on these bikes can't ride very well, and now they have added speed.  It is an ugly combo in certain locations.  They only belong with other motorized vehicles.

I stand corrected....... again. ?

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Dirtyhip Flahute

Dirtyhip

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38 minutes ago, Dottles said:

The only way I would consider getting one -- where they make a lot of sense -- is commuting,.  I have a lot of hills where I moved to and it took biking as an option off the radar.  I'm not waking up another hour early to get all sweaty to catch a bus for an hour.  But I totally see having one if I can get to the bus transit station in less than 20 minutes without soiling myself or looking like total hell and smelling like it when I get to work.  For this reason alone, I am considering it,.

Perfection.  I agree 100%

More people might want to ride to work, if it wasn't so hard.  

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Page Turner KOM / QOM

Page Turner

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1 hour ago, Kzoo said:

I don't understand the love/hate thing for e-bikes.  If someone wants to ride one, why do I care.  If someone doesn't want to ride one, why do I care.

...it's a space, speed and facilities issue.  The stuff that's available now allows a significant number of assholes to tear along on the bike lanes at 20+ mph.  They are, for the most part, beginning cyclists, with neither the bike handling skills, nor the experience/intelligence to appreciate the sorts of hazards they present.  Some (not all) of them are quite dangerous to share the road with.  I try to give them a wide berth, but when they come up on you from behind and feel like you are in their way, bad things happen. 

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Dirtyhip Flahute

Dirtyhip

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6 minutes ago, No One said:

...it's a space, speed and facilities issue.  The stuff that's available now allows a significant number of assholes to tear along on the bike lanes at 20+ mph.  They are, for the most part, beginning cyclists, with neither the bike handling skills, nor the experience/intelligence to appreciate the sorts of hazards they present.  Some (not all) of them are quite dangerous to share the road with.  I try to give them a wide berth, but when they come up on you from behind and feel like you are in their way, bad things happen. 

FTW!

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Rattlecan Domestique

Rattlecan ★

Posted
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3 hours ago, Kzoo said:

I don't understand the love/hate thing for e-bikes.  If someone wants to ride one, why do I care.  If someone doesn't want to ride one, why do I care.  I understand people like DH who doesn't want them on her single track for any of several reasons but for general rec riding - it isn't worth a fight.

BTW - you do a great job of running that page.  

Thanks. Couldn't do it without great helpers, like Petite for one.

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maddmaxx Flahute

maddmaxx ★

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14 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

It isn't my single track.  It is everyone's single track.  E-Bikes are killing our advocacy fight for being allowed in pristine places.  They are basically electric mopeds. 

Sustainable Trails Coalition is fighting for our inclusion to wilderness.  We don't need E-Mopeds ruining our voice in that fight. 

Also, I was almost hit by one on the bike path.  Some of the people on these bikes can't ride very well, and now they have added speed.  It is an ugly combo in certain locations.  They only belong with other motorized vehicles.

This makes me wonder when they will show up on my bike trails where motorized vehicles are prohibited.  Now I'm going to have to ask someone at the state officious level.

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Dirtyhip Flahute

Dirtyhip

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4 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

This makes me wonder when they will show up on my bike trails where motorized vehicles are prohibited.  Now I'm going to have to ask someone at the state officious level.

They already are showing up on the mountain trails. 

Bike paths are non-motorized.  I see e-bikes on them now.  I mentioned I was almost hit by one recently.  The guy was going way too fast for the bike path.

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Dirtyhip Flahute

Dirtyhip

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6 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

We already have speed problems with normal bikes and peds.  I hope this doesn't get out of hand.

I don't have much faith that people will be responsible with them.

1 minute ago, AirwickWithCheese said:

That's one reason I try to stay off of bike paths.  I'm that guy.  I go too fast.  I don't want to be responsible to hurting someone, and I can't stand going 10 mph.

There are moments where I haul ass on the path.  There is a long line of sight on our path.  The moment I see anyone, I slow down.  When I come up behind a walker, I slow to a crawl.  I don't want to scare them and make them hate our kind.

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Square Wheels Flahute

Square Wheels

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2 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

There are moments where I haul ass on the path.  There is a long line of sight on our path.  The moment I see anyone, I slow down.  When I come up behind a walker, I slow to a crawl.  I don't want to scare them and make them hate our kind.

The few paths I have been on (around here) are all wooded, former rail roads.  You can never tell when there is an inlet that someone might just pop in from.  Running down an old lady walking her dog, or a little kid on roller blades would hurt me for a long time.  There are plenty of roads for me to ride on.

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Dirtyhip Flahute

Dirtyhip

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1 minute ago, AirwickWithCheese said:

The few paths I have been on (around here) are all wooded, former rail roads.  You can never tell when there is an inlet that someone might just pop in from.  Running down an old lady walking her dog, or a little kid on roller blades would hurt me for a long time.  There are plenty of roads for me to ride on.

The path is nice for our safety.  It's a nice zone.  

Our path is not as heavily used in comparison to paths in larger cities.  Most of it is wide open pedaling on most days.  There is a congestion area where you might need to slow down. 

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Square Wheels Flahute

Square Wheels

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4 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

The path is nice for our safety.  It's a nice zone.  

Our path is not as heavily used in comparison to paths in larger cities.  Most of it is wide open pedaling on most days.  There is a congestion area where you might need to slow down. 

That sounds nice.  I've seen pics of ones in California that look like roads for bike.  I can't imagine.  There is one in particular I've ridden on a lot, it's full of people all of the time, lots and lots of them.  People running or riding with headphones who don't hear you announce when you approach.  People who see you coming and just walk in front of you anyhow.  Dogs on those dreaded retractable leashes...  Around hear, I hate MUPs.

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late Baroudeur

late

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I'd get one in a heartbeat if the good ones weren't so expensive.

This time of year you can get a used motorcycle, even a Goldwing, in fantastic shape for that kind of money. There's a super scooter, a Honda Silverwing, which is a 600cc 'scooter' that can do highway speeds, for half of what an e-cycle would cost. If I didn't heal so slowly now, I'd already have one.

I am considering a powered wheel. But I have some questions about them, not completely sold.

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onbike1939 Pack Fodder

onbike1939

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23 hours ago, late said:

I'd get one in a heartbeat if the good ones weren't so expensive.

This time of year you can get a used motorcycle, even a Goldwing, in fantastic shape for that kind of money. There's a super scooter, a Honda Silverwing, which is a 600cc 'scooter' that can do highway speeds, for half of what an e-cycle would cost. If I didn't heal so slowly now, I'd already have one.

I am considering a powered wheel. But I have some questions about them, not completely sold.

I had my Moulton TSR27 converted to e-assist using a very sophisticated (and expensive) system and I have to say I was impressed. This used a Bafang motor in the front hub and worked very well indeed and I believe that the rear mounted version works just as well. Those e-bikes powered through the BB assembly I believe are preferred by off-road enthusiasts but suffer from accelerated wear on all the transmission components given that these are directly powered by a torquey electric motor. 

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late Baroudeur

late

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15 minutes ago, onbike1939 said:

I had my Moulton TSR27 converted to e-assist using a very sophisticated (and expensive) system and I have to say I was impressed. This used a Bafang motor in the front hub and worked very well indeed and I believe that the rear mounted version works just as well. Those e-bikes powered through the BB assembly I believe are preferred by off-road enthusiasts but suffer from accelerated wear on all the transmission components given that these are directly powered by a torquey electric motor. 

What brand? Does it have a sensor to prevent you from going over the handlebars?

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Parsnip Totin Jack KOM / QOM

Parsnip Totin Jack ★

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We sell a lot of e-bikes at the LBS I work at. Mostly commuters, some older peeps who can't ride as far as they used to. Our line is Trek and Specialized. They are pedal-assist, meaning you have to pedal to get assistance from the motor. For this reason, they are permitted on the MUP's where mopeds are not. Top speeds on the ones we sell are 22 to as much as 28, though the faster ones cost close to $5,000. The others range from $2-$3k.

I get passed by e-bikes on the path every now and then. The only one who gets my goat is that guy in the ELF. His vehicle takes up the whole lane and he goes too fast for conditions on the path. @Razors Edge probably knows who I'm talking about.

Yesterday, a guy came in asking about e-bikes. He basically looked like a bum but don't judge a book by its cover so I spoke with him. Nice guy actually, he rides his bike everywhere and wanted information so he could shop around. I gave him the info and learned he was 90 years old and served in the Navy in WWII. At basic training they asked him what kind of ship he wanted to be assigned to. Battleship was his reply. They made him a yeoman and gave him a desk in Washington DC.

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Rattlecan Domestique

Rattlecan ★

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The day may come when I will need the assistance of a motor to continue to enjoy cycling. Hopefully, that day is a long way off.

I did, however, build an electric assist bike for my wife, as it was the only way I could get her to ride with me.

The bike works well, but it's a tank, and a pain in the butt to load on the car rack, but we do these things for love, right guys?

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Page Turner KOM / QOM

Page Turner

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...the Jewel of the Sacramento Parks System, the American River Parkway/MUP

Here's one end of it up where it goes into the town of Folsom:

 

folsom-ee4e5fcb.jpeg?ver=1536702960&aspe

 

And here is where it ends at the Sacramento river confluence with the American:

american-river-bike-trail-(jedediah-smit

 

I wish everyone had access to a similar facility, so I try to ride more to make up for those who do not. :)

 

 

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Razors Edge Flahute

Razors Edge ★

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13 hours ago, No One said:

I wish everyone had access to a similar facility, so I try to ride more to make up for those who do not.

Yep - that would be great.

The challenge with ebikes is that they are ahead of the curve regarding policy and enforcement.  Most if not all paths or bikelanes will basically state "no motorized vehicles".  Ebikes certainly are motorized, yet folks have no problem justifying using them - and electric scooters, skateboards, Segways, and the random other e-mobility devices - on places specifically prohibiting them.  So, the demographic who thinks its is fine to break the law/rules is the demographic USING them, which is not a good situation.  The other demographic using them is the IGNORANT demo.  Like the willful demo, the ignorant demo is a horrible representative of ebikes.

BUT(!), we WANT ebikes. Responsible ebike users are WONDERFUL and a huge positive in the long run.  These existing and new riders who become ebike commuters and outdoor cycling enthusiasts will build the base we need to keep the "pave everything for SUVs and trucks" crowd at bay.  If a small motor gets more responsible folks out on bikes or encourages more folks to ride and not drive short distance, the world will be a better place.  The more folks on bikes - regular or electric - the more we as a group will get better laws, better infrastructure, and better safety.

Tom

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Page Turner KOM / QOM

Page Turner

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49 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Yep - that would be great.

The challenge with ebikes is that they are ahead of the curve regarding policy and enforcement.  Most if not all paths or bikelanes will basically state "no motorized vehicles".  Ebikes certainly are motorized, yet folks have no problem justifying using them - and electric scooters, skateboards, Segways, and the random other e-mobility devices - on places specifically prohibiting them.  So, the demographic who thinks its is fine to break the law/rules is the demographic USING them, which is not a good situation.  The other demographic using them is the IGNORANT demo.  Like the willful demo, the ignorant demo is a horrible representative of ebikes.

BUT(!), we WANT ebikes. Responsible ebike users are WONDERFUL and a huge positive in the long run.  These existing and new riders who become ebike commuters and outdoor cycling enthusiasts will build the base we need to keep the "pave everything for SUVs and trucks" crowd at bay.  If a small motor gets more responsible folks out on bikes or encourages more folks to ride and not drive short distance, the world will be a better place.  The more folks on bikes - regular or electric - the more we as a group will get better laws, better infrastructure, and better safety.

Tom

...the internet was gonna save us all from ourselves too. It was gonna be the dawn of the information society.

I applaud your idealistic view of the future, but I cannot in good conscience subscribe to it.  There are just too many assholes for it to work out that way. :(

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Razors Edge Flahute

Razors Edge ★

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10 minutes ago, No One said:

...the internet was gonna save us all from ourselves too. It was gonna be the dawn of the information society.

I applaud your idealistic view of the future, but I cannot in good conscience subscribe to it.  There are just too many assholes for it to work out that way. :(

WAIT A COTTON PICKIN' MINUTE!  Aren't our roads and highways already a slice of Nirvana???? I'm just hoping we can use our collective common sense to make the non-motorized parts of our system equally awesome.

I've got ideas (and ideals) for sidewalk usage too!

Tom

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