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Cassette?


donkpow

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Looking at the Shimano CS-6600 16-27 junior development 10 speed cassette. Documents say the cassette is not recommended for use with a triple crankset.  Any idea why this would be the case? Maybe using the longer cage GS derailleur would offset any compatibility issues?

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5 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said:

I see no reason why any cassette can't be used w/ a tripple crank. As you pointed out, the derailleur would need to accommodate the range.

I saw a different note last night when looking at a 4703 groupset saying that a triple setup requires the cassette to be limited to something near 12-28. They are selling an 11-32/4 for installation with the compact double crankset. This latest Tiagra groupset seems to be having a lot of limitations. Strange.  If I get into it, I'll probably blow the boundaries.

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  • 3 weeks later...
5 hours ago, No One said:

...can you buy a triple crankset with chainrings and spacing narrow enough for a ten speed chain ? 

Yes, there are still quite a few being produced. There is the Tiagra (50/39/30) and you can get mtn bike gearing in a triple. I was in the store the other day talking to the guy. He's a good guy and stuff but he was saying some things I don't agree with. I said that a 11T or 12T gear is totally useless. He says they are going that way and that the gear is used basically as a nut. Well, if these useless high range gears are installed, you might as well get a 6 or 7 speed freewheel. He says the industry is going with single speed crank. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a 9 speed+ cassette, in my opinion.

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41 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Does it have any thing to do with the Junior rules gear inch limits?

That's what the cassette is designed for. I am considering it for my uses. I will never pull an 11T gear. Two reasons; 1.) I am weak. 2.) A small gear is hard on the chain. The most oft used standard freewheel/cassette is/was 14-28T. Now they are only selling cassettes with tons of gears that are essentially useless. Do you pull the 11T gear?

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On 12/24/2018 at 1:06 PM, donkpow said:

That's what the cassette is designed for. I am considering it for my uses. I will never pull an 11T gear. Two reasons; 1.) I am weak. 2.) A small gear is hard on the chain. The most oft used standard freewheel/cassette is/was 14-28T. Now they are only selling cassettes with tons of gears that are essentially useless. Do you pull the 11T gear?

,...you can still get some 13-28 8 speed clusters at Wiggle (on closeout).  But yeah, in general 11 and 12 tooth rear cogs are for people racing down hill with compact cranks.  I'[m thinking I might buy a couple of those 13-28's before they're all gone.

What really disappeared (or got real expensive) are old close ratio 5 speed freewheels.  Last bike I rebuilt with Campy rear derailleur I was out of them and had to manufacture one with some Shimano cogs I have laying around and a wider ratio 13-28.  I thought I'd just find one at the co-op or at worst, buy a used one off E-bay.  If you want to shock yourself awake, go look at the prices for old 5 speed close tratio freewheels on E-bay.  I lucked out and found a couple of Suntour 5 speed  close ratio freewheels at the co-op a couple of weeks ago, along with a bunch of bodies that look unused.  I think I'm set for a while now...maybe until I can't ride any more. :)

 

 

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8 hours ago, Page Turner said:

I thought I'd just find one at the co-op or at worst, buy a used one off E-bay. 

I scrounged to find 6 speed freewheels with the designation of MF-Z012. When I first started, I assembled my own from the ones the guys at the bike shop would sell me. Over time, I got a couple of nice ones which I put new bearings and grease into. I still have a 13-23T and a 14-28T in the garage. I reconditioned a couple of 5 speed freewheels when I was down at the co-op. Not many people appreciate the value.

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What is happening to the inventory of seemingly no-longer-relevant 5 and 6 speed hubs/freewheels?  Are they just not getting salvaged off the bikes that either go to a landfill or get converted to single speeds? Are the ones on the bikes you guys restore too shot to rebuild? Is this simply an issue with the freewheels or will it become true across the vintage parts line-up?

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New six speed freewheels are still available for low end bikes. They cost less than $20. They wear out pretty quick and are not as well built as earlier generations. NOS inventories are getting rarer by the day. As far as rebuild, when the gears are worn, they are shot just like cassettes.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/27/2018 at 6:02 PM, donkpow said:

New six speed freewheels are still available for low end bikes. They cost less than $20. They wear out pretty quick and are not as well built as earlier generations. NOS inventories are getting rarer by the day. As far as rebuild, when the gears are worn, they are shot just like cassettes.

Alright, isn't this a PERFECT opportunity for someone to either get a 3D printer or some sort of CNC machine?  Scan all of PT's 5 and 6 speed gears, and then reproduce on demand?

 

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You probably could but I doubt there is much of a market for them. You can get some really nice freewheels from IRD even though they are expensive. You used to be able to buy the different gears and build your own.

BTW, a 3-D printer isn't going to make a usable gear.

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14 hours ago, donkpow said:

BTW, a 3-D printer isn't going to make a usable gear.

Too much torque?

The 3D metal printers I have seen look like they create a "normal" strength piece, but what do I know???

This guy does a neat job, but he is a bit of a liar ("Sunny, beautiful Renton, Washington):

 

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Ideally, a gear would be forged into a blank and cut to spec. You could probably use the 3-D to prototype the gear, say, then scan the model into a CNC machine. 

The printer squirts powdered metal into, basically, a mold. Then the mold with powder is fired. This is the method that has traditionally been employed in a "foundry".  It will make things like exhaust manifolds, piping manifolds, golf trophies, etc. 

Here you see a small forge in operation. The hot metal comes down and the guy smashes it with the forge then the connecting rod is stamped out of that. The next step for a gear would be to cut and grind the rough piece into a finished piece, clean it up and maybe do some form of heat treating to make the material behave like it should.

 

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