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59 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Actually gruesome ...in a homespun way. 

Interesting choice of words.  Do you find  the weapons in of themselves as gruesome?  Not being critical, just trying to understand your view.

I've always seen them as tools moreso than anything and have no fascination with them.  I also carried one daily for years, it was a part of my equipment... 

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8 hours ago, ChrisL said:

Interesting choice of words.  Do you find  the weapons in of themselves as gruesome?  Not being critical, just trying to understand your view.

I've always seen them as tools moreso than anything and have no fascination with them.  I also carried one daily for years, it was a part of my equipment... 

I realize Chris, you were in law enforcement once upon a time.

I've never had a problem with police carrying handguns....that's who carries them in Canada when they walk around legally ...anywhere.  I mean anywhere.  A peace officer, on the other hand, can not be armed and have limited powers to stop and charge for certain minor offences....ie. these would be  transit police, certain security officers, etc.

They are tools but still too many people have access ..how else does one explain high rate of deaths via gunshot in the U.S. and there's not even war on U.S. territory.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/06/555861898/gun-violence-how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries

 

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The ARs are only for killing massive amounts of people.   I wonder when someone will bring one to where I work and shoot me.  I think about it often. I have a plan in place if an active shooter happens to come in.  Luckily, I am in a building that has a lot let activity.  I think they would go into to other buildings first.  Being from a gun family, there are mixed feelings.  Still, we have a real problem here.  

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Yea, actually the authorities worry about guns from U.S. entering Canada.  I'm certain Canadians find ways to sell...to the U.S. because there's just more people interested south of us to buy/get multiple guns. (And what for?)

Am not interested in pursuing the argument on numbers....because it's still high. Comparing yourselves against violent, countries where there is simply less rule of law, shoddier legal and judicial system (emphasis is on latter. Being a judge in certain countries is nearly a threat to your life ie. in Venezula), less effective policing is not the way to do it.   

For sure, one would be a lot safer in Japan where there is VERY high density of people on a tiny island......getting shot is very low. 

But go ahead, believe in the faith of gun protection and gun for every few neighbours on every block.

Note: I live in a province, which probably has a higher rate of gun ownership compared to other provinces, and a lot more people talking enthusiastically about hunting.  

 

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3 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Yea, actually the authorities worry about guns from U.S. entering Canada.  I'm certain Canadians find ways to sell...to the U.S. because there's just more people interested south of us to buy/get multiple guns. (And what for?)

Am not interested in pursuing the argument on numbers....because it's still high. Comparing yourselves against violent, countries where there is simply less rule of law, shoddier legal and judicial system (emphasis is on latter. Being a judge in certain countries is nearly a threat to your life ie. in Venezula), less effective policing is not the way to do it.   

For sure, one would be a lot safer in Japan where there is VERY high density of people on a tiny island......getting shot is very low. 

But go ahead, believe in the faith of gun protection and gun for every few neighbours on every block.

Note: I live in a province, which probably has a higher rate of gun ownership compared to other provinces, and a lot more people talking enthusiastically about hunting.  

 

There is another problem.  You take the guns away from the law abiding people, and guess who still has them?  The criminals.  It leaves us sitting ducks.  Also, there is that pesky thing called our constitution.  We have the right to bear arms against our aggressors foreign and domestic.

Also, it isn't like Canadians don't own guns.  They do.  

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4 hours ago, shootingstar said:

I realize Chris, you were in law enforcement once upon a time.

I've never had a problem with police carrying handguns....that's who carries them in Canada when they walk around legally ...anywhere.  I mean anywhere.  A peace officer, on the other hand, can not be armed and have limited powers to stop and charge for certain minor offences....ie. these would be  transit police, certain security officers, etc.

They are tools but still too many people have access ..how else does one explain high rate of deaths via gunshot in the U.S. and there's not even war on U.S. territory.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/06/555861898/gun-violence-how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries

 

So if I understand your point it's the carnage caused by them and not so much the actual weapon in of itself?

My wife hates guns with a passion but I think it's an irrational fear of it just going off and killing someone.  The mere sight of them makes her nervous. I carried on & off duty the first 3 years of our relationship and she always hated that.  Do you have it, yes.  Which side is it on, I'll stand on the other side.  

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2 hours ago, shootingstar said:

Am not interested in pursuing the argument on numbers....because it's still high. Comparing yourselves against violent, countries where there is simply less rule of law, shoddier legal and judicial system (emphasis is on latter. Being a judge in certain countries is nearly a threat to your life ie. in Venezula), less effective policing is not the way to do it.   

In other words, you are stating your original argument is baseless. In the final analysis, your reaction is to restrict freedom. The subject has nothing to do with the violence people impose on other people? It has everything to do with how easy a target violence with firearm usage is to track. Why aren't you in a tizzy over knife violence? Or violence with baseball bats, clubs, or other blunt instruments? You can't take violence out of the equation and just blame the weapon.

Frankly, I don't care if people own guns. I think if we are going to restrict freedoms, we should take the right to drive away from quite a large number of people. We should also impose upon the freedom of people who don't wear hi-vis clothing when riding a bike. Those are the type of things that will save lives.

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Seems a lot of Americans, at least in this forum, are unwilling to admit that they don't have a gun.

No, I don't know any Canadians personally who own a gun except for 2 people, I of them is not even her, it's her hubby who hunts with daughter.  Another a woman who just likes to own a handgun for fun.

For protection, better off getting a dog.....  which I do know quite a number of Canadians have a dog.

Sure re knives, bats in violent situations, they were intended for other uses.  Even a car has become a  weapon which now there are clear instances of people running down pedestrians....happened in Toronto, Edmonton, Barcelona, Belgium, etc.  And a lot of incidents where the driver should have been charged for death of pedestrian or cyclist but it was hit and run.  Should we take away the license from such folks?...yes, for awhile. For some, forever.

 

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13 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

I do not have a gun, I have never had a gun, I have never touched a gun.  It's unlikely I ever will own or touch a gun.

You work in health care/hospital (though I have no idea which area of care).  Several of my siblings do also.  Several work in downtown Toronto. 1 of them, the hospital would be dealing with the trauma ...probably several times per wk. Yea, a sister-doctor deals with domestic violence. She would be the one at emergency to handle any car accident, gunshot...and a kid's flu because the parents were overly anxious at emergency ward.

Get a dog if you need protection and another family member. :)

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21 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Seems a lot of Americans, at least in this forum, are unwilling to admit that they don't have a gun.

No, I don't know any Canadians personally who own a gun except for 2 people, I of them is not even her, it's her hubby who hunts with daughter.  Another a woman who just likes to own a handgun for fun.

For protection, better off getting a dog.....  which I do know quite a number of Canadians have a dog.

Sure re knives, bats in violent situations, they were intended for other uses.  Even a car has become a  weapon which now there are clear instances of people running down pedestrians....happened in Toronto, Edmonton, Barcelona, Belgium, etc.  And a lot of incidents where the driver should have been charged for death of pedestrian or cyclist but it was hit and run.  Should we take away the license from such folks?...yes, for awhile. For some, forever.

 

I think the perception is Americans are all gun lovers who carry.  I do own a weapon but I have no ammunition in the house so it's essentially useless for self defense.  Hardly anyone I know personally has a firearm.

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3 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

You work in health care/hospital (though I have no idea which area of care). 

I work in a blood bank.  We provide blood products to be transfused.  We're a large hospital with a level 1 trauma center.  If someone gets injured and needs blood, or maybe it's a bloody surgical procedure, a patient might need 2 - 5 units of red cells.  A gunshot can use up to 150.  Usually at that point it's hopeless and the patient is probably already dead and the docs are tying too hard.  We get 1 or 2 gunshot wounds a week.  There is little to no hunting in Massachusetts, and none in Boston.  This is all related to violence.  Even with the Boston Marathon bombing, we used very little blood.

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1 minute ago, ChrisL said:

I think the perception is Americans are all gun lovers who carry.  I do own a weapon but I have no ammunition in the house so it's essentially useless for self defense.  Hardly anyone I know personally has a firearm.

I am NOT trying to argue, but in the first 54 years of my life, I have never once thought, gee, I could really use a gun right now to depend myself.  Again, not to argue, but how many American's really need a gun for defense?  I've never known anyone who has.

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28 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Seems a lot of Americans, at least in this forum, are unwilling to admit that they don't have a gun.

No, I don't know any Canadians personally who own a gun except for 2 people, I of them is not even her, it's her hubby who hunts with daughter.  Another a woman who just likes to own a handgun for fun.

For protection, better off getting a dog.....  which I do know quite a number of Canadians have a dog.

Sure re knives, bats in violent situations, they were intended for other uses.  Even a car has become a  weapon which now there are clear instances of people running down pedestrians....happened in Toronto, Edmonton, Barcelona, Belgium, etc.  And a lot of incidents where the driver should have been charged for death of pedestrian or cyclist but it was hit and run.  Should we take away the license from such folks?...yes, for awhile. For some, forever.

 

You may not know anyone who owns one, but you can be assured that they are there.  The bigger issue here is that I see is that the USA has lousy mental health care.  This, I believe is at the base of our mass shooting problems.

Also, not sure why you stated that people on the forum are unwilling to admit we don't own guns.  I am scratching my head on this point.  If you own a gun or not, is a personal matter.  Like, net worth.  People may not want to talk about net worth or salary.  

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12 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

You may not know anyone who owns one, but you can be assured that they are there.  The bigger issue here is that I see is that the USA has lousy mental health care.  This, I believe is at the base of our mass shooting problems.

Also, not sure why you stated that people on the forum are unwilling to admit we don't own guns.  I am scratching my head on this point.  If you own a gun or not, is a personal matter.  Like, net worth.  People may not want to talk about net worth or salary.  

This is the Internet, some people may not feel safe to say so.

Yea, I'm not revealing my net worth or salary.  Though my salary is public knowledge if you dig hard enough through job ads from our org., because I work for govn't. ? 

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All these people who have guns and don't admit to it need to be corralled. We should require them to fill out some paperwork so that everybody knows who has guns. Also, all these people who don't have guns but don't admit to it need to fess up. How can we confirm who owns a gun if non gun owners don't fess up.

 

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1 hour ago, Square Wheels said:

I work in a blood bank.  We provide blood products to be transfused.  We're a large hospital with a level 1 trauma center.  If someone gets injured and needs blood, or maybe it's a bloody surgical procedure, a patient might need 2 - 5 units of red cells.  A gunshot can use up to 150.  Usually at that point it's hopeless and the patient is probably already dead and the docs are tying too hard.  We get 1 or 2 gunshot wounds a week.  There is little to no hunting in Massachusetts, and none in Boston.  This is all related to violence.  Even with the Boston Marathon bombing, we used very little blood.

I haven't looked at crime stats in a while but for a very long time, if you weren't a ethnic male between 15 - 25 living in the inner city the chance of encountering gun related crime/violence is very slim.

The random acts of gun violence is a huge concern worthy of attention but we seem to overlook the hundreds of shootings in the inner city weekly.  

Kudos to everyone for keeping this thread here!

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I sometimes wonder if things like violent video games aren't having a significant impact on the youth of today.  There are lots of single shooter games where the main object is to kill people to achieve some sort of goal.  Most of the gun violence in my area is being perpetrated by young people, teens even.    

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