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Brick & Morter Retailers


ChrisL

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Do you think they will be completely gone at some point?  I think online retailers will force out many if not a large majority but I think there will always be a need for a walk in service oriented store.  

Factors like population density and type of product or service will of course play a role but specifically towards bike shops, think they will be gone at some point?

As an aside, would you ever buy a bike from an online only retailer like Canyon or Fezzarri? 

 

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I would love to buy at more shops near me, but seems like I can get the same product online for 1/4 less. If I need it that day I will drive 20 min to go get it, but most of the time I can wait a few days. 

Some things you need to go to a shop for because online just won't cut it.

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34 minutes ago, KrAzY said:

Some things you need to go to a shop for because online just won't cut it.

What do you think must be purchased in a shop?  I used to think a bike but more & more folks are buying online. Shoes are the same.  Produce maybe?

Great return policies make it easier to buy online but I agree some things should be seen, felt & tried.

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14 minutes ago, dennis said:

I think B&M that is run well will survive. We have 6 bike shops here. Two just expanded. One of our bookshops just expanded. Ski shops, clothing, jewelry, it's a crazy amount of retail. No Lowes, Target or Walmart. There is a Kmart and a TJ Maxx. Most of the retail here is smaller locally owned shops.

I worked in an industry that had 20 or so large national firms 15 years ago.  Mergers & buy outs has dwindled that number to 3 mega firms.  

However this allowed for the growth of smaller firms that don't try to compete with the mega firms.  They specialize their service and focus on service delivery.

Sound familiar?  

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2 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I worked in an industry that had 20 or so large national firms 15 years ago.  Mergers & buy outs has dwindled that number to 3 mega firms.  

However this allowed for the growth of smaller firms that don't try to compete with the mega firms.  They specialize their service and focus on service delivery.

Sound familiar?  

So true.

Look at Salsa Cycles. They used to try to compete with Trek selling road bikes, TT bikes etc. They gave up got into adventure by bike. Gravel, fatbikes, bikepacking, and they are the leader in those categories. 

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I'm not sure about bike shops but I know hobby shops.  I've known more than I can count during my life and most of them are already gone.  If you're in most of the hobbies supported in these stores you need their expertise and in many cases you need their support products.  Sure, you can buy that drone you're lusting after online for a bit less but when you need the 1.5 mm x 6 mm screw to repair it you may well need that shop.  Online retailers do not often stock 100% of the repair parts necessary.  You may find yourself on a global hunt for the necessary part.  You may not have the micro tool to install that part.  To be fair, many of the remaining hobby shops may also not have that part.  The successful ones have become general purpose hobby/toy shops and they simply can't afford to stock one or more of everything let alone find it when you need it. This can lead people like myself into buying online because no one local has the special stuff I want or need........and that's from a guy who until recently worked in a hobby store.

I suspect the same is true of the really great bicycle shops.  Unfortunately again, not all bike shops are the really great ones.  Two years ago when I went looking for a shop with the tools to chase bottom bracket threads I found none locally.  That may be a geographical thing, I just don't know.

Unfortunately for both of these industries we have turned into a society of throwaway things rather than repairable stuff.  Maybe that's the fault of the designers and the manufacturers.  After all why do we need a half dozen different headset types.

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The trouble is how @maddmaxx put it in hobby shops extends to other shops. I bought a 24V dc power supply (2A) for a tube headphone amplifier I've been working on a new pcb to be more stable and cleaner sounding. The one I ordered, from Amazon, had the wrong barrel plug end than I needed. My error really. 5-7 years ago I could have popped down the Best Buy, RadioShack and bought a $5-8 adapter plug set and been on my merry way. Now that "specialty part" seems only to be a solder-able option that I have to order online. I bought the powersupply for $15 and would happily have bought the adapter for convenience and expediency if it was available locally. Instead I returned the one I bought and have a one-day shipping (free with my Prime) to deliver the right one for $1 more.

It is neigh impossible for a local shop to carry inventory at the prices online retailers can offer and with the extent and efficiency that shipping and logistics is becoming, impossible to out maneuver on the expediency as well.

I'll get to listen to my flac files tomorrow in sweet sweet clarity tomorrow instead of today.

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Note that Amazon does a tiny fraction of the sales that Walmart does.

I think the brick and mortar stores will evolve into places where you can check out some of the items available online or look at the item in more detail at 3D stations than you can on a computer.

Of course, things like groceries will always be a draw because people want to examine specific pieces of fruit,  cuts of meat, etc. before buying.

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4 hours ago, ChrisL said:

would you ever buy a bike from an online only retailer like Canyon

Sure, save some money if you know what you are after and don't need even more people in the middle of things.

That said, there will always be retail, right now is a powerful motivator.  Equilibrium will eventually be reached, and for many people, buying a bike is an impulse purchase. 

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Prior to the availability of parts and supplies on the internet, I did a lot of "mail order" business. You'd get a catalog and call, fax, or mail your order in. Sometimes a sales rep would stop by. It was actually no small feat to gather all the suppliers needed. I had stacks of catalogs and magazines and it took quite a lot of time to build that infrastructure. I bring this up because all the comments bandied about over local businesses was common at that time. In fact, I had one job that everyone had the expectation that I would buy local. I told them flat out I wasn't going to waste money just to shop local. There for a while, I made the statement to every rep that came through the door that I wanted only two things from them, good price and good service. ... And kickbacks, of course.

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One of the biggest threats to brick and mortar is not online, but manufacturer price control. While ostensibly to keep the big stores from driving out the smaller stores with aggressive pricing, the sameness tells the consumer it doesn't really matter where you buy it when it is the same price everywhere. A retailer can't have a "10% off everything in the store" as part of their business plan as they have to have a long list of "Except" in the fine print of those manufacturers who won't allow it.  Worse, those same manufacturers will set up their own store in an outlet mall and undercut their own retailers.

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Yet ...a bookstore outlet that's part of a national chain....is re-establishing a store on 2nd & 3rd level floors this year...thereby saving moving on sidewalk ground level costs....in downtown Vancouver.  They vacated a few years ago but now back after a 5 yrs. absence.

Downtown Vancouver store establishment is not cheap unless you own the bldg. decades ago.  I like ordering a book online (1-2 times annually) and going to store to pick it up.  Easier than figuring UPS outlet, save on shipping cost and we don't have secure pkg. delivery during day without something getting stolen.

I CANNOT buy clothing online....I have an atypical women's body for the North American market.  90% of the time I must alter the garment even after I buy it in person, but at least I try on and then buy something that doesn't require major reconstruction.

Part of me doesn't care that much about buying anymore. I feel I've acquired enough "assets" in life.  Food, trips, some bike parts, etc. Believe me, you would think differently, if your belongings was spread across 2 cities  -including my clothing. 

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12 hours ago, ChrisL said:

would you ever buy a bike from an online only retailer like Canyon or Fezzarri? 

Probably not.  There would have to be something really special about it that I just couldn't find in another brand.

I don't buy anything bike related on-line or from Performance.  I'm loyal to locally owned bike shops and ski shops.  Try getting fitted for your ski boots at Amazon.

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29 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

Did anyone else notice before that this thread is Brick and Morter, so it is aboot arms dealers!  I am ashamed to admit that I just now noticed, and was afeared that it was one of those dreaded parr8ey threads!

 

14 minutes ago, donkpow said:

Ha. I am still not noticing. :lol:

Here’s a photo of my grandson.

B18D3BBC-FE57-4387-9DF2-AFB905FDFAEB.thumb.jpeg.59d6c4336a9d479a55b129de806de147.jpeg

i should have my son take another picture with a brick next to the mortar.

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49 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

 

Here’s a photo of my grandson.

B18D3BBC-FE57-4387-9DF2-AFB905FDFAEB.thumb.jpeg.59d6c4336a9d479a55b129de806de147.jpeg

i should have my son take another picture with a brick next to the mortar.

Leave it to an Army dog to use the wrong word.  I like how dad left the Inert label out to not freak anyone out.  Bringing home live munitions is frowned upon....

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I prefer to buy from a store.  I like seeing and handling the product before I buy it.  I also like getting it the day that I want it and not having to wait a week for delivery.  A delivery that could be lost or stolen.  And I prefer to return merchandise to a store and not have to deal with return shipments.  

I only buy online when I can't find what I am looking for in a local store. 

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I'm conflicted about this issue... I don't want to see an Amazon monopoly and I wish long term success for the B&M retailers and their employees, especially the mom and pops.

But for my entire adult life I've been unable to buy clothes or shoes at 99% of those stores.  I buy these things online because they pretty much leave me no choice.  

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4 minutes ago, TrentonMakes said:

But for my entire adult life I've been unable to buy clothes or shoes at 99% of those stores.  I buy these things online because they pretty much leave me no choice.  

Did you ever get frustrated when you go to a big and tall shop only to find all they sell are fat man clothes? Online you can see what they have without wasting your time.

After I complained to Casual Male Big and Tall about them not having anything for tall men that are not overweight they eventually took the word tall out of their name.

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11 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

Did you ever get frustrated when you go to a big and tall shop only to find all they sell are fat man clothes? Online you can see what they have without wasting your time.

After I complained to Casual Male Big and Tall about them not having anything for tall men that are not overweight they eventually took the word tall out of their name.

Yes, I have referred to them as the "big and fat store".  I can walk in and buy 9XL clothes but I can't get my 38/38 pants or 40" sleeves.  The one nearby closed a couple years ago. 

There's one of these stores not too much farther away, across the river.  Now it's called "Destination XL", and you can buy the fragrance that they pump into the store.  WTF?

I know, these companies would probably go out of business if they reserved precious rack space for clothes that fit me.  Ah well.

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3 hours ago, Goat Geddah said:

Probably not.  There would have to be something really special about it that I just couldn't find in another brand.

I don't buy anything bike related on-line or from Performance.  I'm loyal to locally owned bike shops and ski shops.  Try getting fitted for your ski boots at Amazon.

Well that's what's special, the price...  I considered Fezzari but ultimately wanted the service of a shop.  But I could get a lot more bike for the buck direct to consumer.

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1 hour ago, Road Runner said:

I prefer to buy from a store.  I like seeing and handling the product before I buy it.  I also like getting it the day that I want it and not having to wait a week for delivery.  A delivery that could be lost or stolen.  And I prefer to return merchandise to a store and not have to deal with return shipments.  

I only buy online when I can't find what I am looking for in a local store. 

I get it but as someone mentioned before the logistics are amazing now and same day delivery is a thing.  My son purchased a game through Amazon a few years ago and selected same day delivery.  We went out for dinner and he was pissed as it hadn't arrived yet.  I asked him when did you place the order?  About an hour ago....  Yeah no way it's coming tonight, you'll see it tomorrow.  Sumbitch it was at our door when we got back from dinner.

 

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1 hour ago, Longjohn said:

Did you ever get frustrated when you go to a big and tall shop only to find all they sell are fat man clothes? Online you can see what they have without wasting your time.

After I complained to Casual Male Big and Tall about them not having anything for tall men that are not overweight they eventually took the word tall out of their name.

More than one way to skin a kat!

And it is usually best to go with the percentages. :(

 

 

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15 hours ago, ChrisL said:

What do you think must be purchased in a shop?  I used to think a bike but more & more folks are buying online. Shoes are the same.  Produce maybe?

Great return policies make it easier to buy online but I agree some things should be seen, felt & tried.

Shoes or dress cloths... so you know if it is a great fit, nothing wose then something you have to return because it's does not fit right.

Massages with happy endings.. nuff said!

Vegetables.. nothing worse then ordering online and getting ones that would have been tossed aside at the store.

These are just a couple that I thought up right away. They are the main ones that I could think of.

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