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E-bike laws


donkpow

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7 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

If they are pure e bikes I think they should be treated like motorcycles.  If they are pedal bikes with short duration hill climbing help then they should be treated like bicycles.

Just sayn.

If they have a motor, they are motorized.  They belong with cars and motorcycles.  They do not belong on bike paths, or non-motorized trails.

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46 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

If they have a motor, they are motorized.  They belong with cars and motorcycles.  They do not belong on bike paths, or non-motorized trails.

There are some elderly bikers out there who can really use just a few seconds of help on hills.  I don't want to tell them they're done on our trails.  Some of these bikes only have a couple of minutes of power before they're done.  Assist only.

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4 minutes ago, dennis said:

They are allowed on bike paths here as they should be. Reducing car traffic is a good thing. It really should be up to each community to decide where they are allowed. 

I don't agree with that, because they are motorized.  These bikes are running down peds and going at a higher rate of speed, thus creating a a hazard to the safe bike trail.

 

3 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

There are some elderly bikers out there who can really use just a few seconds of help on hills.  I don't want to tell them they're done on our trails.  Some of these bikes only have a couple of minutes of power before they're done.  Assist only.

If the path is non-motorized, then they are an illegal addition to the trail.  

So, because they are tired, they get to violate the laws?  This is not the way laws work.  

There are lots of back roads where vehicles are allowed.  They should ride in those zones. Dedicated bike trails and paths are for passive use, not motorized. If the sign reads no motorized, it means no-motorized.  People shouldn't be able to break laws they don't like.

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3 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

I don't agree with that, because they are motorized.  These bikes are running down peds and going at a higher rate of speed, thus creating a a hazard to the safe bike trail.

 

If the path is non-motorized, then they are an illegal addition to the trail.  

So, because they are tired, they get to violate the laws?  This is not the way laws work.  

There are lots of back roads where vehicles are allowed.  They should ride in those zones. Dedicated bike trails and paths are for passive use, not motorized. If the sign reads no motorized, it means no-motorized.  People shouldn't be able to break laws they don't like.

Remember those words carefully.

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10 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

I don't agree with that, because they are motorized.  These bikes are running down peds and going at a higher rate of speed, thus creating a a hazard to the safe bike trail.

 

I'm faster than many e-bikes. It comes down to common sense. They are working pretty well here. I'd rather see someone riding to work or through the park on an e-bike than in a car. 

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1 minute ago, dennis said:

I'm faster than many e-bikes. It comes down to common sense. They are working pretty well here. I'd rather see someone riding to work or through the park on an e-bike than in a car. 

Many of our fellow humans don't use common sense.  

You may be faster, but the new e-bikes are pretty swift.  Some idiot whizzed down toward me on the non-motorized path recently.  He was going very fast and didn't appear to have a good handle on his machine.  

...and he was breaking the law, as it clearly reads "NON-MOTORIZED TRAFFIC ONLY."

 

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3 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Many of our fellow humans don't use common sense.  

You may be faster, but the new e-bikes are pretty swift.  Some idiot whizzed down toward me on the non-motorized path recently.  He was going very fast and didn't appear to have a good handle on his machine.  

...and he was breaking the law, as it clearly reads "NON-MOTORIZED TRAFFIC ONLY."

 

There is a big difference between an Ebike and an E-assist bike.  As long as you are hung up on the exact words of the law........probably safer to never drive a car.  I have yet to meet the perfect driver who doesn't break a law every now and then.  For example, do you know anyone who stops at a stop sign for a full 3 seconds when there is no other traffic around...........Do you know anyone who does it on a bike?

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Some key points:

E-bikes are not "motorized bikes". There are three categories of e-bikes, each with wattage and top speed limiting. E-bikes are not permitted on trails and paths that are restricted to things like horse riding and mtn bike trails. They are not restricted from paved trails that don't prohibit them. Local authorities can assign which trails can be prohibited for use by e-bikes.

The legislation mostly just includes e-bikes in the current code. In other words, wherever there is a list of vehicles that e-bikes qualify as, "e-bike" is specified. For example, there are certain rules for riding bicycles on the roadways. The statute now specifies e-bikes along with bicycles in its wording.

I just perused the draft earlier so I'm not clear on all the points. The initiative was supported by "People for Bikes" and other interested parties.

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10 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

There is a big difference between an Ebike and an E-assist bike.  As long as you are hung up on the exact words of the law........probably safer to never drive a car.  I have yet to meet the perfect driver who doesn't break a law every now and then.  For example, do you know anyone who stops at a stop sign for a full 3 seconds when there is no other traffic around...........Do you know anyone who does it on a bike?

Is it OK to steal, because you need money?  No. 

The same goes for needing assist.  It belongs with other motorized vehicles.  It has a motor.  

Spin it any way you like, buy you are bending the law in a way you see fit.

I know what an assist bike is and ebikes are assist, they have motors to assist them.  Hence the term MOTORIZED.

not sure why you mention I should never drive.   Not sure what apples have to do with the price of oranges.  

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1 minute ago, donkpow said:

Some key points:

E-bikes are not "motorized bikes". There are three categories of e-bikes, each with wattage and top speed limiting. E-bikes are not permitted on trails and paths that are restricted to things like horse riding and mtn bike trails. They are not restricted from paved trails that don't prohibit them. Local authorities can assign which trails can be prohibited for use by e-bikes.

The legislation mostly just includes e-bikes in the current code. In other words, wherever there is a list of vehicles that e-bikes qualify as, "e-bike" is specified. For example, there are certain rules for riding bicycles on the roadways. The statute now specifies e-bikes along with bicycles in its wording.

I just perused the draft earlier so I'm not clear on all the points. The initiative was supported by "People for Bikes" and other interested parties.

The industry is headed this way, because of money.  Money talks and people want them, because it makes things easier on them.  

Yes, they are not supposed to be out on the primitive bike trails.  They are.  I see them all the time.  It is disgusting and a blatant disregard for others. They will ruin our advocacy for entrance to primitive zones.  We will lose access,  This is not a good thing. 

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1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

It belongs with other motorized vehicles.  It has a motor.  

The code makes the distinction between motorized bikes and e-bikes. Motorized bikes are defined differently in the law and there is a maximum hp permitted. E-bikes, by design are electrically powered. That's how the vehicle is designed. The three categories of e-bikes have the same wattage and speed limits. The difference between each has to do with how assist is enabled and disabled. I believe cat-3 e-bikes are e-bikes that can be powered by the electric without the pedals being turned.

I understand that is your opinion on the matter but the definition applied differentiates the two different power sources. Along with the strictly human powered bicycle.

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5 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Is it OK to steal, because you need money?  No. 

The same goes for needing assist.  It belongs with other motorized vehicles.  It has a motor.  

Spin it any way you like, buy you are bending the law in a way you see fit.

I know what an assist bike is and ebikes are assist, they have motors to assist them.  Hence the term MOTORIZED.

not sure why you mention I should never drive.   Not sure what apples have to do with the price of oranges.  

You are hammering a specific law.

I am hammering a specific law.  The next time you roll a stop sign with no traffic around you should be arrested.

Equivalence.

Assist bikes are unmotored bikes 99% of the time.  Ebikes are full time.  There is a major difference there to recognize beyond blindly quoting "no motor no motor no motor".

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1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

The industry is headed this way, because of money.  Money talks and people want them, because it makes things easier on them.  

Yes, they are not supposed to be out on the primitive bike trails.  They are.  I see them all the time.  It is disgusting and a blatant disregard for others. They will ruin our advocacy for entrance to primitive zones.  We will lose access,  This is not a good thing. 

This requires advocacy on the local level to create proper protections, according to the Ohio code. 

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And the point in contention.

"Motorized bicycle" or "moped" means any vehicle that either has two tandem wheels or one wheel in the front and two wheels in the rear, that may be pedaled, and that is equipped with a helper motor of not more than fifty cubic centimeters piston displacement that produces no more than one brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of no greater than twenty miles per hour on a level surface. "Motorized bicycle" or "moped" does not include an electric bicycle.

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6 minutes ago, donkpow said:

This requires advocacy on the local level to create proper protections, according to the Ohio code.  

People will not follow whatever is decided anyway.  It's moot, really.  

Many can't even be bothered to throw things in a trash can.  This will not end well, as more of these come out of the box.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

People will not follow whatever is decided anyway.  It's moot, really.  

Many can't even be bothered to throw things in a trash can.  This will not end well, as more of these come out of the box.  

 

I know. It's not good. 

This legislation actually creates a framework for future legislation. The least of it is that e-bikes are specified in the code. Whatever the people want to do with e-bikes, legislation wise, can now be accomplished because e-bikes are recognized the transportation statute.

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1 minute ago, donkpow said:

I know. It's not good. 

This legislation actually creates a framework for future legislation. The least of it is that e-bikes are specified in the code. Whatever the people want to do with e-bikes, legislation wise, can now be accomplished because e-bikes are recognized the transportation statute.

I can hope that local zones are sane about how to regulate these things.

The new ones go very fast.  There is already talk on how to over ride the gov. unit that keeps it below a certain speed.  Before long, people will figure out how to use them without pedaling. 

It has been Pandora's box, around here.  People are not following rule of law,  

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1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

I can hope that local zones are sane about how to regulate these things.

The new ones go very fast.  There is already talk on how to over ride the gov. unit that keeps it below a certain speed.  Before long, people will figure out how to use them without pedaling. 

It has been Pandora's box, around here.  People are not following rule of law,  

Yeah. I remember when dune buggies, atv's, 4wd's, et al went after wilderness areas. I was terribly disturbed over the destruction. Thankfully there have been rules applied and enforced. But there are areas set aside for abuse. It's the will of the people.

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DH, I respect your opinion and all that you do for cycling and access to mtb trails. I can't speak for every town or community, but for here, e-bikes work. We have a traffic problem. E-bikes offer a lot of people the opportunity to use a bike for transportation that would otherwise drive. I believe that reducing auto traffic is a good thing. 

Here's an analogy to consider. Ferrari(or any sports car company) designs cars to go 100 mph. Yet, we have traffic laws and speed limits. Those cars are legal as long as the driver obeys the law. Riders of e-bikes have to obey the laws and use commonsense. Most will, some won't. The same is true for drivers. Most obey the laws, some don't. We're not outlawing cars because some drivers don't follow the rules or commonsense. 

A person I know wrote a great piece about why she bought an e-bike for commuting. I'll see if I can dig it up. The e-bike allows her to ride to work pulling her daughter in a trailer. That's not a bad thing. 

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I don't really want to start something up but I also remember when mtn bikers were ripping up the wilderness. You know, erosion from tracks, etc. Things changed. People began to take action to mitigate damage. They didn't stop riding, though.

It's just a development thing, I suppose.

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5 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

There is a big difference between an Ebike and an E-assist bike.  As long as you are hung up on the exact words of the law........probably safer to never drive a car.  I have yet to meet the perfect driver who doesn't break a law every now and then.  For example, do you know anyone who stops at a stop sign for a full 3 seconds when there is no other traffic around...........Do you know anyone who does it on a bike?

You mean people break laws they don't like!?!? ?

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3 hours ago, donkpow said:

I don't really want to start something up but I also remember when mtn bikers were ripping up the wilderness. You know, erosion from tracks, etc. Things changed. People began to take action to mitigate damage. They didn't stop riding, though.

It's just a development thing, I suppose.

It seems mtn bikers are the most passionate about ebikes as they do present a threat to their trails, many of which are off limits to  bikes.  

It is a controversial subject which I also have mixed feelings on.  I agree with @dennis in that one more car off the roads is a good thing.  But I don't want to see ebikes on my off road trails or mups either.

Theres going to be a legal breaking in period as the laws haven't quiet caught up with the technology.  Over time I think a middle ground will be met.  

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As we already have conventional bikers sailing along at speed on MUPs without concern for pedestrians it should be clear that it's not the vehicle that's questionable but the rider.  I do agree that the advent of ebikes will probably bring us more riders who don't care about some common sense rules and regulations but I don't see that as a reason to flat out condemn whole classes of riders who aren't currently part of the problem.

People, not bikes are the problem.

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11 hours ago, donkpow said:

The code makes the distinction between motorized bikes and e-bikes. Motorized bikes are defined differently in the law and there is a maximum hp permitted. E-bikes, by design are electrically powered. That's how the vehicle is designed. The three categories of e-bikes have the same wattage and speed limits. The difference between each has to do with how assist is enabled and disabled. I believe cat-3 e-bikes are e-bikes that can be powered by the electric without the pedals being turned.

I understand that is your opinion on the matter but the definition applied differentiates the two different power sources. Along with the strictly human powered bicycle.

Stop being reasonable and quoting the difference between e-assist and other categories.....it's irritating to those who want to ignore the difference and condemn the lot. E-assist bikes usually cut-out below or at 20mph and one has to pedal if one wants to go faster. Those e-bikes outwith this category and those that need no pedalling, in my opinion, should be banned from non-motorized cycle paths.

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Pedal assist requires one to pedal at all times I believe, just kicking in for a bit when the load exceeds the input such as on a hill.  I know one gentleman, in his upper 70's perhaps, who wouldn't be riding at all without it.  With the exception of a relatively small battery stashed in his bottle cage one would have to look very closely to see that the bike was an assist at all.  I believe that it was some sort of home conversion of a standard bike.

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7 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Pedal assist requires one to pedal at all times I believe, just kicking in for a bit when the load exceeds the input such as on a hill.  I know one gentleman, in his upper 70's perhaps, who wouldn't be riding at all without it.  With the exception of a relatively small battery stashed in his bottle cage one would have to look very closely to see that the bike was an assist at all.  I believe that it was some sort of home conversion of a standard bike.

Yep.......like mine which was a Moulton I had converted and used a small Bosch battery with a range of around 26 miles.

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...this guy has been writing an ongoing series of reviews about trying an e-bike as a commuter.  It's kind of interesting to me, because I see that as probably the best use of them.  And it might (emphasis might) get more people here commuting by e-bike.  Still, it's tough to get people out of their cars until the commute times approach what poor @Square Wheels has to deal with every day.

 

https://boingboing.net/2018/12/11/cyclingebikesgadgetsurban-t.html

https://boingboing.net/2018/12/13/the-great-e-bike-experiment-t.html

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17 minutes ago, No One said:

...this guy has been writing an ongoing series of reviews about trying an e-bike as a commuter.  It's kind of interesting to me, because I see that as probably the best use of them.  And it might (emphasis might) get more people here commuting by e-bike.  Still, it's tough to get people out of their cars until the commute times approach what poor @Square Wheels has to deal with every day.

 

https://boingboing.net/2018/12/11/cyclingebikesgadgetsurban-t.html

https://boingboing.net/2018/12/13/the-great-e-bike-experiment-t.html

My wife is thinking of turning in her leased car and we share a car.  I have a 20 mile one way commute and am considering getting an ebike for my commute or vice versa.  

Time and not getting to work sweaty are the main factors for me.

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Commuting is a perfect use for an e-bike - full or pedal assisted.  But, like DH worries with her MTB trails, I worry about the existing rail trails and bike lanes when e-bikes get any more popular than today. I am already seeing increased idiocy regarding speeds and passing, so e-bikes will be a H-U-G-E factor in "bike" discussions in the coming years.  They ARE coming, and it is going to disrupt everything we think about cycling.  I welcome almost anything that gets folks on bikes (or foot or skis or skateboards or ...) and out of a car/SUV/truck or off the couch, but there will be pros and cons to the changes as there always are.

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