Jump to content

humans are despicable animals


12string
 Share

Recommended Posts

We visited the Holocaust Museum this weekend.

wow.

Sickening.

Not just the people in charge, even as you move down the chain of command.  Even considering the propaganda they believed about the Jews, et al, I can't imagine following those orders, I'd rather be killed myself.  And some of them took perverse pleasure in the horrible actions.  Not to mention far too many people and leaders who ignored it as someone else's problem, hoping it would fade away before coming to their shores.  Even with the misunderstanding of the true breadth of the genocide, it was still inexcuseable as humans to allow it.  To go out and collect and exterminate 2/3 of Europe's Jews simply because one man deemed them substandard, just, indescribable.

The museum itself is incredible, unlike any other.  You can't pick and choose, you have to experience it all from start to end.  From the moment you begin by being jammed too many people into a small elevator smelling of metal and oil and stale air, dark passages crammed too close, smells, sounds.  The discomfort was intentional.  The near total silence from the crowds, so few cell phones, clearly it was effective.  The journey goes from Hitler's rise to the liberation (I can't imagine those soldiers shock at seeing the horror up close).  Thankfully, there was also a good deal of information about people who risked their own lives to save strangers.

It's a museum everyone should be required to visit.

 

The next day we went to the American History Museum, where they also had an exhibit about the internment of Japanese during WWII.  An incomparable scale , but also a despicable act.

 

  • Sad 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites



1 hour ago, 12string said:

I can't imagine following those orders, I'd rather be killed myself. 

In all seriousness, I don't think it is that big of a stretch that people followed those orders.  I am sure it didn't seem real, but then the soldiers saw what happened to their mates when they themselves didn't follow orders.  Getting shot will motivate you when you have told that it is gonna happen to you if you don't do your job.  

You know it is crazy, but you might have people depending on you being alive when all is said and done.  Plus, you have been trained and brainwashed that you follow orders and that thinking is a luxury for the officers in HQ.  These are not nice people who design this type of program, and life is apparently cheap and expendable.  If you don't follow orders, you are shot as an example to others who have to make the same choices, all the while knowing that your lives are valued at only a little more than the people you are guarding.

War sucks, and all manner of corruption of the human spirit is bound to occur.  People are despicable animals at times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My German teacher showed a film on the concentration camps. It was a French or German language film with subtitles. It was quite graphic and left indelible images in my mind of the horrors inflicted. 

A part of me wanted to excuse the people because they didn't have internet or other forms of communication readily available. But then I see so many things going on, now that seem to be history repeating itself. A few horrible people thrust into power give license for others to unleash their horrible that had previously been contained. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

In all seriousness, I don't think it is that big of a stretch that people followed those orders.  I am sure it didn't seem real, but then the soldiers saw what happened to their mates when they themselves didn't follow orders.  Getting shot will motivate you when you have told that it is gonna happen to you if you don't do your job.  

You know it is crazy, but you might have people depending on you being alive when all is said and done.  Plus, you have been trained and brainwashed that you follow orders and that thinking is a luxury for the officers in HQ.  These are not nice people who design this type of program, and life is apparently cheap and expendable.  If you don't follow orders, you are shot as an example to others who have to make the same choices, all the while knowing that your lives are valued at only a little more than the people you are guarding.

War sucks, and all manner of corruption of the human spirit is bound to occur.  People are despicable animals at times.

I can't condemn those following orders, I do understand that my choice would not necessarily be common.  They were well indoctrinated in the horrible Jews that were the source of all of their problems.  But some of the acts indicated people who had crossed a line of humanity.  It's hard to say, propaganda is a powerful tool, especially when there was so little access to the truth.  Much as I've tried to deny the comparisons, there are a scary number of similarities to today.   But today, we also have more access to the truth, more checks on that kind o power grab, more access to truth, instant global communication - I don't see how it could repeat.  I'd also like to believe that most of humanity learned some lessons.

I suppose part of my reaction has to do with unsavory bits of my heritage.  I found out later in life that my family history has a dark side.  My Great-Grandfather was high in the Kaiser's circle of command in WWI, and apparently had some level of responsibility for the atrocities against civilians.  My aunt still has some letters from the Kaiser commending him.  Not sure of the details, I've long lost what I knew of German script.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to diminish the atrocities committed by the Nazis but the Japanese committed horrible acts upon the peoples of the countries they conquered.  The atrocities committed by the Japanese on China are known to an extent but Koreans, Philipinos, Indonesians and many others suffered similar fates.

It bothers me that we won’t let the world forget what the Nazis did to the Jews but there is little mention to what the Japanese did.  

Granted I take this more personally than most as my family was directly impacted as both of my grandfathers were killed by the Japanese during the Japanese occupation of Indonesia.  My mom spoke of horrible acts committed  in the camps by the Japanese and alluded that they did some stuff to her but wouldn’t go into details. (She was 12-15 during the occupation). I posted before that my dad was a POW and nearly starved to death in the camps. He was actually placed in an area they put all of the deceased by the medics who liberated them.  He knew it was a death sentence so crawled out of there where they placed him in a hospital instead.

But we don’t have museums in DC of this now do we?  

  • Awesome 1
  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, 12string said:

We visited the Holocaust Museum this weekend.

wow.

Sickening.

Not just the people in charge, even as you move down the chain of command.  Even considering the propaganda they believed about the Jews, et al, I can't imagine following those orders, I'd rather be killed myself.  And some of them took perverse pleasure in the horrible actions.  Not to mention far too many people and leaders who ignored it as someone else's problem, hoping it would fade away before coming to their shores.  Even with the misunderstanding of the true breadth of the genocide, it was still inexcuseable as humans to allow it.  To go out and collect and exterminate 2/3 of Europe's Jews simply because one man deemed them substandard, just, indescribable.

The museum itself is incredible, unlike any other.  You can't pick and choose, you have to experience it all from start to end.  From the moment you begin by being jammed too many people into a small elevator smelling of metal and oil and stale air, dark passages crammed too close, smells, sounds.  The discomfort was intentional.  The near total silence from the crowds, so few cell phones, clearly it was effective.  The journey goes from Hitler's rise to the liberation (I can't imagine those soldiers shock at seeing the horror up close).  Thankfully, there was also a good deal of information about people who risked their own lives to save strangers.

It's a museum everyone should be required to visit.

 

The next day we went to the American History Museum, where they also had an exhibit about the internment of Japanese during WWII.  An incomparable scale , but also a despicable act.

 

I was extremely moved at the Holocaust Museum in Israel, which is more inclusive than most such museums of all the groups (97% of Gypsies, 8 million Catholics, etc.) who were murdered by the Nazis.

The Holocaust Museum in Washington also includes all groups.  Do they still do the same thing of assigning you the identity of one of the victims when you enter - which may be Jewish or other religious or ethnic group?

I have mixed feelings about Japanese internment. Note that it was Japanese Americans who supplied Japan with the intelligence it needed to be so successful bombing Pearl Harbor. It's easy to lay blame now, but it's hard to evaluate today whether or not it was justifiably considered too risky to do otherwise then, based on available information. Note that they were not death camps.  German-, Italian-, etc. Americans were much better integrated into American society.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Not to diminish the atrocities committed by the Nazis but the Japanese committed horrible acts upon the peoples of the countries they conquered.  The atrocities committed by the Japanese on China are known to an extent but Koreans, Philipinos, Indonesians and many others suffered similar fates.

It bothers me that we won’t let the world forget what the Nazis did to the Jews but there is little mention to what the Japanese did.  

Granted I take this more personally than most as my family was directly impacted as both of my grandfathers were killed by the Japanese during the Japanese occupation of Indonesia.  My mom spoke of horrible acts committed  in the camps by the Japanese and alluded that they did some stuff to her but wouldn’t go into details. (She was 12-15 during the occupation). I posted before that my dad was a POW and nearly starved to death in the camps. He was actually placed in an area they put all of the deceased by the medics who liberated them.  He knew it was a death sentence so crawled out of there where they placed him in a hospital instead.

But we don’t have museums in DC of this now do we?  

It is an interesting issue for sure. There have been a LOT of awful war crimes in the past 100+ years - essentially all events we should be able to easily document and detail and caution future generations about.  From the clear winner of pure EVIL - the German Holocaust - to the most recent stuff going on in parts of the modern world like Syria or Myanmar.  Japan was ruthless and inhumane in their war crimes in WWII - notably in China, but also pretty much anywhere they went.  Obviously Russia had mass murder for decades, and China as well.  We will never know the millions upon millions killed over the past century. Jeebus, how many were killed by Pol Pot?  Or in Rwanda? Or down in Argentina with the Disappeared? Or the wars in the Balkans? Or China's current Uighur persecution? Add Vietnam and N. Korea to the list. Its a big list with many others I haven't mentioned.

So, there is a need for ALL those horrors to be explored and documented, but political pressure is unlikely to get much traction from most of those victim groups. China is the only real "power" from the oppressed list, but they are now comfortable oppressors and not too likely to push for a US museum of world atrocities.

  • Awesome 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

...we took my mom to that museum, back when it first opened.  It would have been unusual not to do so, because there were relatives (her mother's siblings) living in Brooklyn when I was a kid who had been in those camps, and only two of them survived.  Years later, here in the Big Tomato, I actually got to know a guy who worked at the Friends of the Library book warehouse who was a Holocaust denial guy.

So it was interesting listening to him, in light of my own personal experience with those guys in Brooklyn.

 

A museum would not have done this guy any good, and he would have had an "alternative" explanation for the bayonet scar in my Great Uncle Sam's back.  Sam's wife, Sally, had snow white hair. I never heard her speak a word, in the visits we made to them. I got the story once, that she had been one of the people who hid out like Anne Frank in some dark hole for some months.  So she wasn't gonna say much either.

I guess the museum does some good. I don't know.  I used to stop an Manzanar (it's right off California 395) on my drives down the east front of the Sierra. At the time it was deserted, left to its own fortunes in the California high desert.  I heard they finally turned it into a museum.  But I can't imagine a museum that could make a more sobering statement than the place as it was, fenced off and with the buildings boarded up.  All you could hear there was the sound of the wind, which seems to blow without a pause.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

I used to stop an Manzanar

I watched an interesting documentary with George Takei on Manzanar.  It was pretty well done, but the part I found oddest (and ties back to Chris' point) is that it was on my NHK network which is essentially some sort of Japanese public television.  A little shitty for them to be calling out the US mistakes when they were setting up sex camps, labor camps, and doing some pretty awful stuff in Asia at that same time.

Still, if you don't lower yourself to your enemy's level (and Manzanar was not really at their level), you won't need to have this mistake/cruelty to apologize for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

I used to stop an Manzanar (it's right off California 395) on my drives down the east front of the Sierra. At the time it was deserted, left to its own fortunes in the California high desert.  I heard they finally turned it into a museum.  But I can't imagine a museum that could make a more sobering statement than the place as it was, fenced off and with the buildings boarded up.  All you could hear there was the sound of the wind, which seems to blow without a pause.

 

 

Yeah Manzanar has been turned into a museum.  I stopped by a few years ago while on my way to Mammoth.  Interesting place and they did a good job telling the stories of the internees.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

I watched an interesting documentary with George Takei on Manzanar.  It was pretty well done, but the part I found oddest (and ties back to Chris' point) is that it was on my NHK network which is essentially some sort of Japanese public television.  A little shitty for them to be calling out the US mistakes when they were setting up sex camps, labor camps, and doing some pretty awful stuff in Asia at that same time.

Still, if you don't lower yourself to your enemy's level (and Manzanar was not really at their level), you won't need to have this mistake/cruelty to apologize for.

...not certain you realize the enormity of what we did to the Japanese internees here on the West coast in WW 2.  Maybe you have to live in California for a while to figure it out.  In many cases, they waited until the crop was ready for harvest before rounding up the farmers around here on short notice and loading them onto buses.  The majority of those houses and farms got sold for pennies on the dollar, because the Japanese who owned them were uncertain if they were ever going to be allowed to return.  And a farm goes to hell in a hurry without someone cultivating it.

 

The idea that somehow we were less awful than the Japanese in our practices during the big war ignores a lot of things.  What it ignores most obviously is that we did this to our own citizens, not some nameless, faceless conquered peoples.  I'm sorry, but I cannot see it any other way.  Like I said, maybe you have to live here and encounter some of the places and people who were directly involved.  What's ironic to me is that when I had to ask about internment when I was taking the retirement claims of Japanese Americans here in the Central Valley, some of them were reluctant to talk about it. Even though there was a law on the books granting Social Security credit for internment years at that point, they still felt great shame over the history of internment.

 

That's fucked up.

  • Confused 1
  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...not certain you realize the enormity of what we did to the Japanese internees here on the West coast in WW 2.  Maybe you have to live in California for a while to figure it out.  In many cases, they waited until the crop was ready for harvest before rounding up the farmers around here on short notice and loading them onto buses.  The majority of those houses and farms got sold for pennies on the dollar, because the Japanese who owned them were uncertain if they were ever going to be allowed to return.  And a farm goes to hell in a hurry without someone cultivating it. 

 

The idea that somehow we were less awful than the Japanese in our practices during the big war ignores a lot of things.  What it ignores most obviously is that we did this to our own citizens, not some nameless, faceless conquered peoples.  I'm sorry, but I cannot see it any other way.  Like I said, maybe you have to live here and encounter some of the places and people who were directly involved.  What's ironic to me is that when I had to ask about internment when I was taking the retirement claims of Japanese Americans here in the Central Valley, some of them were reluctant to talk about it. Even though there was a law on the books granting Social Security credit for internment years at that point, they still felt great shame over the history of internment.

 

That's fucked up.

You seem to be trying to find something to argue about, but that's your prerogative. I can easily sleep well knowing what the US did to the Japanese-Americans in WWII was not in the same league of magnitude as a rape camp or labor camp or a place where POWs were routinely executed with no "legal" justification.  Everything you wrote is true about the mistakes we made sending Japanese-Americans to internment camps, but please don't tell me it is just as bad.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...not certain you realize the enormity of what we did to the Japanese internees here on the West coast in WW 2.  Maybe you have to live in California for a while to figure it out.  In many cases, they waited until the crop was ready for harvest before rounding up the farmers around here on short notice and loading them onto buses.  The majority of those houses and farms got sold for pennies on the dollar, because the Japanese who owned them were uncertain if they were ever going to be allowed to return.  And a farm goes to hell in a hurry without someone cultivating it.

 

The idea that somehow we were less awful than the Japanese in our practices during the big war ignores a lot of things.  What it ignores most obviously is that we did this to our own citizens, not some nameless, faceless conquered peoples.  I'm sorry, but I cannot see it any other way.  Like I said, maybe you have to live here and encounter some of the places and people who were directly involved.  What's ironic to me is that when I had to ask about internment when I was taking the retirement claims of Japanese Americans here in the Central Valley, some of them were reluctant to talk about it. Even though there was a law on the books granting Social Security credit for internment years at that point, they still felt great shame over the history of internment.

 

That's fucked up.

I'm not condoning it but this shit has been going on since -- well since man walked the earth.  Vetting out enemies is a hard thing to do.  It's horrible what was done -- and it's horrible what is done in war.  It leaves a bad scar on the country.  But I don't suspect this practice in this country or any others will be going away anytime soon. 

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...not certain you realize the enormity of what we did to the Japanese internees here on the West coast in WW 2.  Maybe you have to live in California for a while to figure it out.  

Seattle too. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Japanese_in_Seattle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

You seem to be trying to find something to argue about, but that's your prerogative. I can easily sleep well knowing what the US did to the Japanese-Americans in WWII was not in the same league of magnitude as a rape camp or labor camp or a place where POWs were routinely executed with no "legal" justification.  Everything you wrote is true about the mistakes we made sending Japanese-Americans to internment camps, but please don't tell me it is just as bad.

 

To play devils advocate what about the bombing of civilians which was a common practice by the US Airforce.  How many German & Japanese civilians got annihalated in Dresden, Tokyo, Nagasaki & Hiroshima?  

Maybe we are just as bad?

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

To play devils advocate what about the bombing of civilians which was a common practice by the US Airforce.  How many German & Japanese civilians got annihalated in Dresden, Tokyo, Nagasaki & Hiroshima?  

Maybe we are just as bad?

Yeah, and FUCK THOSE DAMN INJUNS!  Bastards, always getting in the way, possibly scalping somebody or other.  Maybe our government also decides from time to time to experiment with psychiatric drugs on prisoners against their will or without their consent, or undermine other governments or start shadow wars for somebody's benefit, etc, etc, etc..

Face it, our government is often a gang of fuckers, and not much better comparatively than the nazi's.

  • Awesome 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Yeah, and FUCK THOSE DAMN INJUNS!  Bastards, always getting in the way, possibly scalping somebody or other.  Maybe our government also decides from time to time to experiment with psychiatric drugs on prisoners against their will or without their consent, or undermine other governments or start shadow wars for somebody's benefit, etc, etc, etc..

Face it, our government is often a gang of fuckers, and not much better comparatively than the nazi's.

Yeah I was trying to keep within similar time periods but you are correct.  

This could easily get pulled into not P& so I’ll leave it at that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, ChrisL said:

Yeah I was trying to keep within similar time periods but you are correct.  

This could easily get pulled into not P& so I’ll leave it at that.

I just asked about the relative hotness of indian chicks to keep this on track.

Who was hotter, indian chicks or white chicks?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

You seem to be trying to find something to argue about, but that's your prerogative. I can easily sleep well knowing what the US did to the Japanese-Americans in WWII was not in the same league of magnitude as a rape camp or labor camp or a place where POWs were routinely executed with no "legal" justification.  Everything you wrote is true about the mistakes we made sending Japanese-Americans to internment camps, but please don't tell me it is just as bad.

 

...if you really want to discuss something here (it will probably end up in teh P+R, but what the hell), what you're doing is a spouting rhetorical device commonly used in justifying outrageous acts.   Thus: "Well sure we did some bad stuff (insert bad stuff here) in someplace when we had a war (insert country here).  But those guys did much worse stuff than we did. (Insert the fire bombing of Dresden here). Because our cause was just and our hearts were pure.

Once you start quantifying "How bad was it, on the scale of historical bad stuff ?", you're lost in this discussion.

  • Whatever 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dottles said:

I'm not condoning it but this shit has been going on since -- well since man walked the earth.  Vetting out enemies is a hard thing to do.  It's horrible what was done -- and it's horrible what is done in war.  It leaves a bad scar on the country.  But I don't suspect this practice in this country or any others will be going away anytime soon. 

 

 

 

...shit happens because we let it. That's about all I've learned in 70 years on earth.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Page Turner said:

...shit happens because we let it. That's about all I've learned in 70 years on earth.

Problem is we don't know if it's going on. It took how many months before we knew what was going on at the border?  How long was/is that/this shit going on at Guantanamo Bay? Half the population doesn't want to know or care -- or feels helpless.  That's exactly how this shit takes hold.

  • Awesome 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Page Turner said:

...if you really want to discuss something here (it will probably end up in teh P+R, but what the hell), what you're doing is a spouting rhetorical device commonly used in justifying outrageous acts.   Thus: "Well sure we did some bad stuff (insert bad stuff here) in someplace when we had a war (insert country here).  But those guys did much worse stuff than we did. (Insert the fire bombing of Dresden here). Because our cause was just and our hearts were pure.

Once you start quantifying "How bad was it, on the scale of historical bad stuff ?", you're lost in this discussion.

You've sort of done a reverse-Godwin on us, PT.  Taking something incredibly horrific (likely the #1 worst documented event in the 20th century), and then flipping the script!  Good work doing that :D  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

You've sort of done a reverse-Godwin on us, PT.  Taking something incredibly horrific (likely the #1 worst documented event in the 20th century), and then flipping the script!  Good work doing that :D  

...whataboutism is a real thing, man.  Using whataboutism you can basically write off any sort of objectionable behavior, because there's always somebody who did something worse.  All those Catholic priests might have abused children sexually, but at least they didn't kill and eat them, like Idi Amin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Page Turner said:

...whataboutism is a real thing, man.  Using whataboutism you can basically write off any sort of objectionable behavior, because there's always somebody who did something worse.  All those Catholic priests might have abused children sexually, but at least they didn't eat them, like Idi Amin. 

The OP is about the Holocaust. Are we comfortable saying the Holocaust was WORSE, but Manzanar was pretty darn awful? Or do we need to hold them equally awful?  I can find it in my heart to consider both worthy of being in the "never again" column.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup, humans suck, that was the point.  Go to the Holocaust Museum.  It will change you in a way that you will be open to stopping other humans to screw it up for the rest of us.  they did a great job of pointing out how it got so bad because too many people looked the other way, and it wasn't as bad as it could have been because some people risked everything to help right a wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

The OP is about the Holocaust. Are we comfortable saying the Holocaust was WORSE, but Manzanar was pretty darn awful? Or do we need to hold them equally awful?  I can find it in my heart to consider both worthy of being in the "never again" column.

...where do you come down on "enhanced interrogation" ? Do you see my problem here ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, 12string said:

Yup, humans suck, that was the point.  Go to the Holocaust Museum.  It will change you in a way that you will be open to stopping other humans to screw it up for the rest of us.  they did a great job of pointing out how it got so bad because too many people looked the other way, and it wasn't as bad as it could have been because some people risked everything to help right a wrong.

We all have a monster inside us I am afraid.  I know I do. What brings it out differs for all of us, but we need to be keenly aware that it exists.

I heard some local radio personalities talking about the lunch counter experience at the National Center for Civil and Human rights in Atlanta.  It brought them to tears at the time they experienced it and it brought them to tears just speaking about it after the fact on the radio.

https://www.civilandhumanrights.org/lessons-lunch-counter/

I think until one actually experiences a bit of what the Jews, or African Americans or any other opressed minority experiences on a daily basis, one cannot even begin to fully grasp the entirety of what these people went through.

We are not that far removed from the animals and never will be I fear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...where do you come down on "enhanced interrogation" ? Do you see my problem here ?

Atrocious. Not proven more effective or better than traditional (legal) techniques. Often borderline or flat out torture.  Still not on the scale of the Holocaust.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

Atrocious. Not proven more effective or better than traditional (legal) techniques. Often borderline or flat out torture.  Still not on the scale of the Holocaust.

...yet if we go back to the immediate post war history of the event, we find that the majority of the German people responding to questions about it reply that they knew nothing about what was going on with regard to the Final Solution.  Not making this up, you can easily verify it for yourself.

 

My point here (and I do have one), is that in order to remedy the problem (i.e. that people in general suck, whatever the reason), we have to be clear on drawing the lines between acceptable behavior and not acceptable behavior.  Even the least harmful behaviors in this regard almost always lead to horrific events due to mission creep.  Again, not making this up....it's pretty evident in the historical record.  And scaling the unacceptable ones as either more or less unacceptable is not a particularly helpful position to take in discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Page Turner said:

And scaling the unacceptable ones as either more or less unacceptable is not a particularly helpful position to take in discussion. 

Well, my neighborhood sidewalk is still unshoveled and it is 1pm! That rates an "unacceptable" in my book!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jsharr said:

We all have a monster inside us I am afraid.  I know I do. 

I've seen this in you.  I honestly cannot say I find it attractive but then I don't sleep with you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing that differentiates the holocaust from, oh,  Rwanda. is the German efficiency, they didn't just get all up in bloodlust, they industrialized it and documented horrendous deeds as research. 

And they very well could have taken control of the world.

Rwanda's big lesson is how it was pretty much ignored

  • Awesome 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...