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Another Reason Not To Outsource Jobs!


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14 minutes ago, sheep_herder said:

Going to be really interesting to see the results from this situation.  I've not checked for updates on the player.

Minor knee sprain is what they are saying.

 

14 minutes ago, jsharr said:

A broken shoe hurts worse than endorsing Kolin Krapernick?

Sales and stock rose after the Kaepernick ad. 

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Just now, dennis said:

The ad did it's job. Marketing, people like it and responded in a positive manner. Shoe falls apart, people don't like it and respond in a negative manner. 

Not if they spin it right!  Nike, we pull for the underdogs!  If they can make Krapernick work, they can find a way to spin this too.

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5 minutes ago, jsharr said:

Not if they spin it right!  Nike, we pull for the underdogs!  If they can make Krapernick work, they can find a way to spin this too.

I bet they are working on it now. 

Why do you call him Krapernick? Do you insult these guys too? Isn't the first amendment part of who we are?

Image result for tommie smith 1968

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Just now, dennis said:

I bet they are working on it now. 

Why do you call him Krapernick? Do you insult these guys too? Isn't the first amendment part of who we are?

Image result for tommie smith 1968

To me the protest above is much more real.  They did nothing disrespectful.  Different time and place.  My choice of words and name calling is in poor taste and childish.  I feel his protest, while valid, may not have been presented in the best way and I am not sure it was not a play to be able to sue the NFL for an undisclosed amount, as it was clear that his NFL career was coming to a end, one that he had a big part in by the choices he made prior to the protest.

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8 minutes ago, jsharr said:

To me the protest above is much more real.  They did nothing disrespectful.  Different time and place.  My choice of words and name calling is in poor taste and childish.  I feel his protest, while valid, may not have been presented in the best way and I am not sure it was not a play to be able to sue the NFL for an undisclosed amount, as it was clear that his NFL career was coming to a end, one that he had a big part in by the choices he made prior to the protest.

I think we have the benefit of time and hindsight. Mexico 1968, this was huge. It ruined their careers, right? Now we look back in a different light. Vietnam protesters were viewed as hoodlums. Now many are political leaders. Honestly, I don't follow football closely, but I don't have a problem with taking a knee to shine a light on cops shooting black men. It's a problem, we know it's a problem. I heard David Parks(son of Gordon Parks) speak about it. He talked about the double standard we have in this country. I think someone of prominence saying hey, we need to pay attention to this is okay in my book. And he has the first amendment to stand behind. 

 

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1 minute ago, dennis said:

And he has the first amendment to stand behind. 

Not so true.  His was a workplace issue that he created.  The 1st amendment does not extend to the workplace.  It's only between you and the government.  I can agree with his cause but disagree with his methods.  I have several black friends.  I know I don't have to deal with the issues they do.  I also have several LEO that are friends and I would never want to walk a day in their shoes. 

Being on the right side and being right can be two different things.

#headedtoP&R

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1 minute ago, dennis said:

I didn't intend to make this political. Sorry about that. 

I'm pretty sure Tommie Smith has a new book coming out next year about his experience. I believe it's a graphic novel for youth. I look forward to reading it. 

I remember '68 and Mexico.  It was a HUGE deal.  Like you said, it cost them.  Have you ever read the story of the white guy that didn't participate?  I forget his name right now (too lazy to Google it) but his version is fascinating.

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28 minutes ago, dennis said:

I think we have the benefit of time and hindsight. Mexico 1968, this was huge. It ruined their careers, right? Now we look back in a different light. Vietnam protesters were viewed as hoodlums. Now many are political leaders. Honestly, I don't follow football closely, but I don't have a problem with taking a knee to shine a light on cops shooting black men. It's a problem, we know it's a problem. I heard David Parks(son of Gordon Parks) speak about it. He talked about the double standard we have in this country. I think someone of prominence saying hey, we need to pay attention to this is okay in my book. And he has the first amendment to stand behind. 

 

No, it did not ruin Carlos and Smith.  They  were reaccepted into track and field gradually and both had careers in the NFL.  The white guy, Peter Norman the Australian who stood with them and wore the medal of the Olympic Project for Human Rights, his career was ruined and he sank into depression and alcoholism and drug abuse and died without being recognized for his achievements.  Carlos and Smith, the US sprinters, were pall bearers at his funeral.

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So how do people protest if something is amiss?  You pretty much gotta be a rich person to get the attention of the other rich people in government or the media, with few exceptions.  I think you take whatever platform you have available to you, so that is what some of the athletes did.  I don't fault them for it, as it did appear that things change slowly or sometimes not at all.  Everybody has their thing, I suppose.

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50 minutes ago, dennis said:

I think we have the benefit of time and hindsight. Mexico 1968, this was huge. It ruined their careers, right? Now we look back in a different light. Vietnam protesters were viewed as hoodlums. Now many are political leaders. Honestly, I don't follow football closely, but I don't have a problem with taking a knee to shine a light on cops shooting black men. It's a problem, we know it's a problem. I heard David Parks(son of Gordon Parks) speak about it. He talked about the double standard we have in this country. I think someone of prominence saying hey, we need to pay attention to this is okay in my book. And he has the first amendment to stand behind. 

 

It was one of the most powerful symbols of the fight for equality.  It's an icon.

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Keapernick did nothing wrong.  We don't have to salute the flag if we do not want to.   I have loyalty to my fellow human being more than my loyalty to a flag.  Police brutality is real. This is what he has been trying to shine a light on.  There may not be real justice for everyone in our country.  Supposedly we are all equals.  Some are more equal than others.

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15 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

Keapernick did nothing wrong.  We don't have to salute the flag if we do not want to.   I have loyalty to my fellow human being more than my loyalty to a flag.  Police brutality is real. This is what he has been trying to shine a light on.  There may not be real justice for everyone in our country.  Supposedly we are all equals.  Some are more equal than others.

If your employer has a code of conduct, that is legal, and you violate it, there are consequences.   The choices we make carry consequences.   People vote with the dollars and voices and actions every day.   I respect any fighter for moral justice.  I have doubts about Kaepernicks convictions and motive.   I do not respect his subsequent whining and the law suit he filed against the NFL that he was not playing due to his stance.  He was not playing because he was not good enough and I felt then and now that his "stance" was a money play with a financial windfall as an end goal.

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2 minutes ago, jsharr said:

If your employer has a code of conduct, that is legal, and you violate it, there are consequences.   The choices we make carry consequences.   People vote with the dollars and voices and actions every day.   I respect any fighter for moral justice.  I have doubts about Kaepernicks convictions and motive.   I do not respect his subsequent whining and the law suit he filed against the NFL that he was not playing due to his stance.  He was not playing because he was not good enough and I felt then and now that his "stance" was a money play with a financial windfall as an end goal. 

What does flag saluting have to do with employment?  Did the NFL tell him he had to, and that it was a rule for all NFL players to follow? 

I don't watch football.  Personally, it seems boring and lame.

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2 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

What does flag saluting have to do with employment?  Did the NFL tell him he had to, and that it was a rule for all NFL players to follow? 

I don't watch football.  Personally, it seems boring and lame.

Yes, the NFL has a rule in place.  Here’s what the NFL game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

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Just now, jsharr said:

Yes, the NFL has a rule in place.  Here’s what the NFL game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

well, then he violated rules of conduct.  I am wrong.  I had no idea they had that rule.  

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16 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

well, then he violated rules of conduct.  I am wrong.  I had no idea they had that rule.  

"Should" is a lot different than "must".  And not sure " Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline " applies at all to the discussion.

A fuller write up at Snopes.

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39 minutes ago, jsharr said:

Yes, the NFL has a rule in place.  Here’s what the NFL game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

What's True

The NFL's rulebook says nothing about player conduct during the pre-game playing of the U.S. national anthem.

What's False

The NFL's game operations manual may contain a policy stating that players must be present on the sidelines during the national anthem, but not that they must stand.

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1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

What's True

The NFL's rulebook says nothing about player conduct during the pre-game playing of the U.S. national anthem.

What's False

The NFL's game operations manual may contain a policy stating that players must be present on the sidelines during the national anthem, but not that they must stand.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/05/23/nfl-national-anthem-policy-kneeling-protest/637050002/

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41 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

well, then he violated rules of conduct.  I am wrong.  I had no idea they had that rule.  

There is nothing in the rules concerning this so he violated no rules.  That quote is from the NFL operations manual and involves the word "may" rather than "must".

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1 minute ago, jsharr said:

Kapernick didn't play last year.

the NFL on Wednesday passed a revised policy that mandates players and team personnel present on the sideline “shall stand and show respect for the flag and the Anthem.”

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1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

Kapernick didn't play last year.

the NFL on Wednesday passed a revised policy that mandates players and team personnel present on the sideline “shall stand and show respect for the flag and the Anthem.”

This is true.  This current rule was made after he kneeled and as a result of that kneeling.  He violated no rule.

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48 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

well, then he violated rules of conduct.  I am wrong.  I had no idea they had that rule.  

No, he didn't.  The player's collective bargaining agreement allowed the players to do what they want during the anthem.  If the "rule" was an actual rule, there would have been no settlement at all.  The settlement came about from the obvious collusion of at least half the owners saying that they wouldn't employ him because of the kneel-down.  He was blacklisted.

As far as saying he didn't have the talent or attributes, that isn't true by any objective measure.  He wasn't the best in the league, but he took a team to the Superbowl and did well in the right system and was obvious he could do so again.    If he didn't get at least mediocre starting QB money, he would have gotten top back-up money for sure.  

I am positive he didn't go into this whole thing as a money grab idea, that has too many moving pieces to really be probable at all.

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4 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

This is true.  This current rule was made after he kneeled and as a result of that kneeling.  He violated no rule.

Oh, and let's BE VERY CLEAR - the US pays A LOT of MONEY to fund the anthem and assorted "national pride" stuff at a football game. When the DoD's investment is at stake, they step in to make sure their "patriotic" message is getting through, not some other group's ideas.

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Oh, and let's BE VERY CLEAR - the US pays A LOT of MONEY to fund the anthem and assorted "national pride" stuff at a football game. When the DoD's investment is at stake, they step in to make sure their "patriotic" message is getting through, not some other group's ideas.

The fan base likes it.

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