Razors Edge ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #1 Posted February 21, 2019 ...this crazy sheot can happen! OH THE HUMANITY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySTL ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #2 Posted February 21, 2019 Reports said that Nike stocks lost 2% within a few minutes of that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheep_herder ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #3 Posted February 21, 2019 Going to be really interesting to see the results from this situation. I've not checked for updates on the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #4 Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, JerrySTL said: Reports said that Nike stocks lost 2% within a few minutes of that happening. A broken shoe hurts worse than endorsing Kolin Krapernick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share #5 Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, jsharr said: A broken shoe hurts worse than endorsing Kolin Krapernick? One would think. Building shoddy stuff should always be a losing situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #6 Posted February 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, sheep_herder said: Going to be really interesting to see the results from this situation. I've not checked for updates on the player. Minor knee sprain is what they are saying. 14 minutes ago, jsharr said: A broken shoe hurts worse than endorsing Kolin Krapernick? Sales and stock rose after the Kaepernick ad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share #7 Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, dennis said: Minor knee sprain is what they are saying. Whoa! Since when do you care???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #8 Posted February 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Whoa! Since when do you care???? Read it on NPR. I like college hoops, but I don't have any TV service so I don't get to watch it much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #9 Posted February 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, dennis said: Minor knee sprain is what they are saying. Sales and stock rose after the Kaepernick ad. ED ZACHARY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #10 Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, jsharr said: ED ZACHARY!!! The ad did it's job. Marketing, people like it and responded in a positive manner. Shoe falls apart, people don't like it and respond in a negative manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #11 Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, dennis said: The ad did it's job. Marketing, people like it and responded in a positive manner. Shoe falls apart, people don't like it and respond in a negative manner. Not if they spin it right! Nike, we pull for the underdogs! If they can make Krapernick work, they can find a way to spin this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #12 Posted February 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, jsharr said: Not if they spin it right! Nike, we pull for the underdogs! If they can make Krapernick work, they can find a way to spin this too. I bet they are working on it now. Why do you call him Krapernick? Do you insult these guys too? Isn't the first amendment part of who we are? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share #13 Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, dennis said: Why do you call him Krapernick? These pro quarterbacks are in the 1% of the 1%, but it is fun to tease them knowing they could pop us like pimples How much fun have we had at Tom Brady or Ben Rothlisberger's expense? A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #14 Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, dennis said: I bet they are working on it now. Why do you call him Krapernick? Do you insult these guys too? Isn't the first amendment part of who we are? To me the protest above is much more real. They did nothing disrespectful. Different time and place. My choice of words and name calling is in poor taste and childish. I feel his protest, while valid, may not have been presented in the best way and I am not sure it was not a play to be able to sue the NFL for an undisclosed amount, as it was clear that his NFL career was coming to a end, one that he had a big part in by the choices he made prior to the protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeman564™ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #15 Posted February 21, 2019 had a mechanical 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #16 Posted February 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, jsharr said: To me the protest above is much more real. They did nothing disrespectful. Different time and place. My choice of words and name calling is in poor taste and childish. I feel his protest, while valid, may not have been presented in the best way and I am not sure it was not a play to be able to sue the NFL for an undisclosed amount, as it was clear that his NFL career was coming to a end, one that he had a big part in by the choices he made prior to the protest. I think we have the benefit of time and hindsight. Mexico 1968, this was huge. It ruined their careers, right? Now we look back in a different light. Vietnam protesters were viewed as hoodlums. Now many are political leaders. Honestly, I don't follow football closely, but I don't have a problem with taking a knee to shine a light on cops shooting black men. It's a problem, we know it's a problem. I heard David Parks(son of Gordon Parks) speak about it. He talked about the double standard we have in this country. I think someone of prominence saying hey, we need to pay attention to this is okay in my book. And he has the first amendment to stand behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #17 Posted February 21, 2019 I didn't intend to make this political. Sorry about that. I'm pretty sure Tommie Smith has a new book coming out next year about his experience. I believe it's a graphic novel for youth. I look forward to reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted February 21, 2019 Share #18 Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, dennis said: And he has the first amendment to stand behind. Not so true. His was a workplace issue that he created. The 1st amendment does not extend to the workplace. It's only between you and the government. I can agree with his cause but disagree with his methods. I have several black friends. I know I don't have to deal with the issues they do. I also have several LEO that are friends and I would never want to walk a day in their shoes. Being on the right side and being right can be two different things. #headedtoP&R 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted February 21, 2019 Share #19 Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, dennis said: I didn't intend to make this political. Sorry about that. I'm pretty sure Tommie Smith has a new book coming out next year about his experience. I believe it's a graphic novel for youth. I look forward to reading it. I remember '68 and Mexico. It was a HUGE deal. Like you said, it cost them. Have you ever read the story of the white guy that didn't participate? I forget his name right now (too lazy to Google it) but his version is fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #20 Posted February 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, dennis said: I think we have the benefit of time and hindsight. Mexico 1968, this was huge. It ruined their careers, right? Now we look back in a different light. Vietnam protesters were viewed as hoodlums. Now many are political leaders. Honestly, I don't follow football closely, but I don't have a problem with taking a knee to shine a light on cops shooting black men. It's a problem, we know it's a problem. I heard David Parks(son of Gordon Parks) speak about it. He talked about the double standard we have in this country. I think someone of prominence saying hey, we need to pay attention to this is okay in my book. And he has the first amendment to stand behind. No, it did not ruin Carlos and Smith. They were reaccepted into track and field gradually and both had careers in the NFL. The white guy, Peter Norman the Australian who stood with them and wore the medal of the Olympic Project for Human Rights, his career was ruined and he sank into depression and alcoholism and drug abuse and died without being recognized for his achievements. Carlos and Smith, the US sprinters, were pall bearers at his funeral. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #21 Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, sheep_herder said: Going to be really interesting to see the results from this situation. I've not checked for updates on the player. Slightly sprained knee, not as bad as first feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted February 21, 2019 Share #22 Posted February 21, 2019 So how do people protest if something is amiss? You pretty much gotta be a rich person to get the attention of the other rich people in government or the media, with few exceptions. I think you take whatever platform you have available to you, so that is what some of the athletes did. I don't fault them for it, as it did appear that things change slowly or sometimes not at all. Everybody has their thing, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #23 Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Razors Edge said: These pro quarterbacks are in the 1% of the 1%, but it is fun to tease them knowing they could pop us like pimples How much fun have we had at Tom Brady or Ben Rothlisberger's expense? A lot. Not for racial reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted February 21, 2019 Share #24 Posted February 21, 2019 50 minutes ago, dennis said: I think we have the benefit of time and hindsight. Mexico 1968, this was huge. It ruined their careers, right? Now we look back in a different light. Vietnam protesters were viewed as hoodlums. Now many are political leaders. Honestly, I don't follow football closely, but I don't have a problem with taking a knee to shine a light on cops shooting black men. It's a problem, we know it's a problem. I heard David Parks(son of Gordon Parks) speak about it. He talked about the double standard we have in this country. I think someone of prominence saying hey, we need to pay attention to this is okay in my book. And he has the first amendment to stand behind. It was one of the most powerful symbols of the fight for equality. It's an icon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted February 21, 2019 Share #25 Posted February 21, 2019 Keapernick did nothing wrong. We don't have to salute the flag if we do not want to. I have loyalty to my fellow human being more than my loyalty to a flag. Police brutality is real. This is what he has been trying to shine a light on. There may not be real justice for everyone in our country. Supposedly we are all equals. Some are more equal than others. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Share #26 Posted February 22, 2019 15 hours ago, Dirtyhip said: Keapernick did nothing wrong. We don't have to salute the flag if we do not want to. I have loyalty to my fellow human being more than my loyalty to a flag. Police brutality is real. This is what he has been trying to shine a light on. There may not be real justice for everyone in our country. Supposedly we are all equals. Some are more equal than others. If your employer has a code of conduct, that is legal, and you violate it, there are consequences. The choices we make carry consequences. People vote with the dollars and voices and actions every day. I respect any fighter for moral justice. I have doubts about Kaepernicks convictions and motive. I do not respect his subsequent whining and the law suit he filed against the NFL that he was not playing due to his stance. He was not playing because he was not good enough and I felt then and now that his "stance" was a money play with a financial windfall as an end goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted February 22, 2019 Share #27 Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, jsharr said: If your employer has a code of conduct, that is legal, and you violate it, there are consequences. The choices we make carry consequences. People vote with the dollars and voices and actions every day. I respect any fighter for moral justice. I have doubts about Kaepernicks convictions and motive. I do not respect his subsequent whining and the law suit he filed against the NFL that he was not playing due to his stance. He was not playing because he was not good enough and I felt then and now that his "stance" was a money play with a financial windfall as an end goal. What does flag saluting have to do with employment? Did the NFL tell him he had to, and that it was a rule for all NFL players to follow? I don't watch football. Personally, it seems boring and lame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Share #28 Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: What does flag saluting have to do with employment? Did the NFL tell him he had to, and that it was a rule for all NFL players to follow? I don't watch football. Personally, it seems boring and lame. Yes, the NFL has a rule in place. Here’s what the NFL game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson: The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted February 22, 2019 Share #29 Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, jsharr said: Yes, the NFL has a rule in place. Here’s what the NFL game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson: The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses. well, then he violated rules of conduct. I am wrong. I had no idea they had that rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share #30 Posted February 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: well, then he violated rules of conduct. I am wrong. I had no idea they had that rule. "Should" is a lot different than "must". And not sure " Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline " applies at all to the discussion. A fuller write up at Snopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted February 22, 2019 Share #31 Posted February 22, 2019 39 minutes ago, jsharr said: Yes, the NFL has a rule in place. Here’s what the NFL game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson: The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses. What's True The NFL's rulebook says nothing about player conduct during the pre-game playing of the U.S. national anthem. What's False The NFL's game operations manual may contain a policy stating that players must be present on the sidelines during the national anthem, but not that they must stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Share #32 Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Randomguy said: What's True The NFL's rulebook says nothing about player conduct during the pre-game playing of the U.S. national anthem. What's False The NFL's game operations manual may contain a policy stating that players must be present on the sidelines during the national anthem, but not that they must stand. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/05/23/nfl-national-anthem-policy-kneeling-protest/637050002/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Share #33 Posted February 22, 2019 41 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: well, then he violated rules of conduct. I am wrong. I had no idea they had that rule. There is nothing in the rules concerning this so he violated no rules. That quote is from the NFL operations manual and involves the word "may" rather than "must". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share #34 Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, jsharr said: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/05/23/nfl-national-anthem-policy-kneeling-protest/637050002/ Kapernick didn't play last year. the NFL on Wednesday passed a revised policy that mandates players and team personnel present on the sideline “shall stand and show respect for the flag and the Anthem.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Share #35 Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Razors Edge said: Kapernick didn't play last year. the NFL on Wednesday passed a revised policy that mandates players and team personnel present on the sideline “shall stand and show respect for the flag and the Anthem.” This is true. This current rule was made after he kneeled and as a result of that kneeling. He violated no rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted February 22, 2019 Share #36 Posted February 22, 2019 48 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: well, then he violated rules of conduct. I am wrong. I had no idea they had that rule. No, he didn't. The player's collective bargaining agreement allowed the players to do what they want during the anthem. If the "rule" was an actual rule, there would have been no settlement at all. The settlement came about from the obvious collusion of at least half the owners saying that they wouldn't employ him because of the kneel-down. He was blacklisted. As far as saying he didn't have the talent or attributes, that isn't true by any objective measure. He wasn't the best in the league, but he took a team to the Superbowl and did well in the right system and was obvious he could do so again. If he didn't get at least mediocre starting QB money, he would have gotten top back-up money for sure. I am positive he didn't go into this whole thing as a money grab idea, that has too many moving pieces to really be probable at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share #37 Posted February 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: This is true. This current rule was made after he kneeled and as a result of that kneeling. He violated no rule. Oh, and let's BE VERY CLEAR - the US pays A LOT of MONEY to fund the anthem and assorted "national pride" stuff at a football game. When the DoD's investment is at stake, they step in to make sure their "patriotic" message is getting through, not some other group's ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Share #38 Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Razors Edge said: Oh, and let's BE VERY CLEAR - the US pays A LOT of MONEY to fund the anthem and assorted "national pride" stuff at a football game. When the DoD's investment is at stake, they step in to make sure their "patriotic" message is getting through, not some other group's ideas. The fan base likes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share #39 Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, maddmaxx said: The fan base likes it. They didn't realize it until they realized it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Share #40 Posted February 22, 2019 So the guy's shoe broke? Isn't that odd? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share #41 Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, dennis said: So the guy's shoe broke? Isn't that odd? Don't HIJACK MY THREAD! Oh, wait, yeah, the shoe just exploded, and he got injured. And they lost without him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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