So high school dress policy updated

[shootingstar]

https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/06/tdsb-dress-code-toronto/

Yea, it's just clothing.  I get it.  Agree, getting fussed over spaghetti straps for gals is nuts ..but..anyway. 

[groupw]

As the father of 2 daughters, 1 tall enough to struggle finding “fingertip length” shorts and dresses, it’s good to see less emphasis on blaming the girls for what they wear, and maybe making boys and teachers more accountable to act and think in respectful manner regardless of how one is dressed. 

[Green Grass]

34 minutes ago, groupw said:

As the father of 2 daughters, 1 tall enough to struggle finding “fingertip length” shorts and dresses, it’s good to see less emphasis on blaming the girls for what they wear, and maybe making boys and teachers more accountable to act and think in respectful manner regardless of how one is dressed. 

Bullshit.  

3 daughters, 2 sons.  Somehow they knew/know how to dress appropriately.  

[maddmaxx ★]

Womaxx has to maintain a stash of clothing at school that she can loan to students who otherwise would be sent home.  Given the freedom posted above some of the girls will make clothing choices that would make a sailor blush.  Think braless finger length loose bottomed halter top.  Let's not blame the boys for that.  They are after all 14/18.

High School is not the place for Harley Quinn.

[shootingstar]

So how does one explain to a young women 2 generations younger than many of us, how to dress for office jobs?  Suddenly...their freedom will be impeded.  

I must admit when I saw my then-24 yr. niece in her first engineering job, she wore pinstriped suit with starched white long sleeved top, no décolletage...and she was presenting at a mining conference for 90% 150+ male audience, of which many men were her FATHER's  AGE, I was relieved.  She is a younger millennial.....so she doesn't need to be told anyway.

Most young women are probably fine in high school in terms of attire...though I am not a teacher.  I know groups of teen girls would deem others a little slutty anyway, despite declarations of METOO

 

[MickinMD ★]

9 hours ago, groupw said:

As the father of 2 daughters, 1 tall enough to struggle finding “fingertip length” shorts and dresses, it’s good to see less emphasis on blaming the girls for what they wear, and maybe making boys and teachers more accountable to act and think in respectful manner regardless of how one is dressed. 

While I agree, it worth noting that hormones run wild in teenagers and there is some justification to the claim that lipstick, short dresses, etc. are designed to provoke that reaction in males.  From my observations as a high school teacher, it's clear the girls are aware of that provocation and often do much to magnify it.

When you are a teacher trying to address the problems those outfits create, you wonder what the parents were thinking if they allowed their kids - boys as well as girls - to dress as they do.  It sure makes it more difficult to teach.

My high school kept a bunch of long tee shirts that girls and boys were made to wear, unless they wanted a suspension, to cover up accented body parts or shirts with dirty/political slogans.;

[Ralphie ★]

3 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

From my observations as a high school teacher, it's clear the girls are aware of that provocation and often do much to magnify it.

I am always confusled how in the animal kingdom, it is the males who do that. So it is sort of like a powder keg for human females to magnify their attractiveness to us poor males.  

Ill give them a few decades to STOP IT!

[MickinMD ★]

I'm no prude, but I taught enough decades to fully understand the distraction that exposed body parts cause in teenage gatherings.

If any of you think that girls exposing "midriffs...cleavage...and thighs" advances education and does not promote underage sex, you are deluding yourselves.

Even with gifted kids, there were times I had to send an underdressed girl to an administrator because every time I turned around from the board, most of the boys were looking at her and didn't have a clue what I had said.  The school kept a large number of long tee shirts to address that problem.

Midriff, cleavage, and thigh exposure to high-hormone teenagers is the equivalent of have a nude woman sit in an adult meeting or class.  Would that help accomplish the purpose of the meeting or class?  Of course not.

[ChrisL]

I spent a lot of time on campus as a booster and although there was a dress code it wasn’t that restrictive.  It had more to do with messages & images on the clothing and of course revealing clothing. 

My daughter & her friends wore pretty short shorts that were & still are popular and spaghetti straps but the tops weren’t low cut.  It’s also hot in SoCal most of the school year and our school was outdoors (classes inside of course).

The only thing I didn’t care for were the super short & tight volley ball shorts the girls wore.

[ChrisL]

4 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

I'm no prude, but I taught enough decades to fully understand the distraction that exposed body parts cause in teenage gatherings.

If any of you think that girls exposing "midriffs...cleavage...and thighs" advances education and does not promote underage sex, you are deluding yourselves.

Even with gifted kids, there were times I had to send an underdressed girl to an administrator because every time I turned around from the board, most of the boys were looking at her and didn't have a clue what I had said.  The school kept a large number of long tee shirts to address that problem.

Midriff, cleavage, and thigh exposure to high-hormone teenagers is the equivalent of have a nude woman sit in an adult meeting or class.  Would that help accomplish the purpose of the meeting or class?  Of course not.

Do you think some of this is regionally based too?  Boys in SoCal beach communities see girls in bikinis most of the year.  Exposed thighs & midriff is a thing most of the school year as both boys & girls wear shorts to school.  

They drew the line with plunging tops or clothes that revealed girls nipples but it wasn’t uncommon to see a guy walking on campus shirtless during lunch or walking to class.  

Surfing is probably bigger than football at my kids school and there is a manner if dress that is accepted. 

 

[shootingstar]

5 hours ago, ChrisL said:

Do you think some of this is regionally based too?  Boys in SoCal beach communities see girls in bikinis most of the year.  Exposed thighs & midriff is a thing most of the school year as both boys & girls wear shorts to school.  

They drew the line with plunging tops or clothes that revealed girls nipples but it wasn’t uncommon to see a guy walking on campus shirtless during lunch or walking to class.  

Surfing is probably bigger than football at my kids school and there is a manner if dress that is accepted. 

 

It is an interesting point. A bikini by the river bank here in prairie city would be highly noticeable.  And they wear them....when they go lazy rafting floating /kayaking.  Actually mosquitoes would discourage a lot of women from bikini wear for many hours because of the tall grasses by the river banks.

A bikini at the beaches in Vancouver by the ocean inlets would be common in certain areas.  But not walking into a cafe at all. 

[ChrisL]

32 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

It is an interesting point. A bikini by the river bank here in prairie city would be highly noticeable.  And they wear them....when they go lazy rafting floating /kayaking.  Actually mosquitoes would discourage a lot of women from bikini wear for many hours because of the tall grasses by the river banks.

A bikini at the beaches in Vancouver by the ocean inlets would be common in certain areas.  But not walking into a cafe at all. 

I rode SART from Huntington Beach to home today and passed numerous 20+ bikini clad girls riding their bikes on SART to the beach.  

It’s a thing out here..

[shootingstar]

1 hour ago, ChrisL said:

I rode SART from Huntington Beach to home today and passed numerous 20+ bikini clad girls riding their bikes on SART to the beach.  

It’s a thing out here..

All the years I've cycled by the Vancouver beaches, I've never seen a woman bike to the beach in her bikini.  She would probably be wearing a long shirt, short sundress or shorts to the beach and take that off at the beach.   It can get hot...meaning 25-29 degrees C. in Vancouver which to SolCal is not hot enough.  

One needs to shave enough to do a lot of active movement in a bikini, instead of just lying around.

[Randomguy]

21 hours ago, MickinMD said:

I'm no prude, but I taught enough decades to fully understand the distraction that exposed body parts cause in teenage gatherings.

If any of you think that girls exposing "midriffs...cleavage...and thighs" advances education and does not promote underage sex, you are deluding yourselves.

Even with gifted kids, there were times I had to send an underdressed girl to an administrator because every time I turned around from the board, most of the boys were looking at her and didn't have a clue what I had said.  The school kept a large number of long tee shirts to address that problem.

Midriff, cleavage, and thigh exposure to high-hormone teenagers is the equivalent of have a nude woman sit in an adult meeting or class.  Would that help accomplish the purpose of the meeting or class?  Of course not.

 I think you are looking at this the wrong way, in that schools in general are not really meant to advance education so much as you think.  Schools are more of society's warehousing and desensitization centers, which I will explain.

The main purpose of a school is to get young people to be at least minimally functioning members of society and learn how to control basic urges so they can later sit in cubicles or open office plans and not masturbate for longer than is natural.  When they get into high school, I think the whole idea is to train them not to kill each other and how to disguise hard-ons for males and how to be bitchy to other chicks and dress all trampy and cause hard-ons  in males.  

If you can introduce new ideas and they learn anything beyond very basic reading and math, then you have done well, as dealing with society is what they will primarily learn during this period.  I am very firmly convinced that this is the main achieved objective during schooling.

You can really arouse interest in academics in university as the mind matures somewhat, but a large chunk of the subconscious will still be dealing with being a walking hormone factory.  That said, you have seen it all by that time and now you aren't super-tuned at all moments to supple skin and newly engorged body parts because you are now used to it and it is no big deal.  

So there you go.

[Wilbur ★]

When you are 16, chicks are hot no matter how they are dressed.    

[MickinMD ★]

1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

 I think you are looking at this the wrong way, in that schools in general are not really meant to advance education so much as you think.  Schools are more of society's warehousing and desensitization centers, which I will explain.

The main purpose of a school is to get young people to be at least minimally functioning members of society and learn how to control basic urges so they can later sit in cubicles or open office plans and not masturbate for longer than is natural.  When they get into high school, I think the whole idea is to train them not to kill each other and how to disguise hard-ons for males and how to be bitchy to other chicks and dress all trampy and cause hard-ons  in males.  

If you can introduce new ideas and they learn anything beyond very basic reading and math, then you have done well, as dealing with society is what they will primarily learn during this period.  I am very firmly convinced that this is the main achieved objective during schooling.

You can really arouse interest in academics in university as the mind matures somewhat, but a large chunk of the subconscious will still be dealing with being a walking hormone factory.  That said, you have seen it all by that time and now you aren't super-tuned at all moments to supple skin and newly engorged body parts because you are now used to it and it is no big deal.  

So there you go.

If schools are not meant to advance education as much as I think, why are schools forced to spend thousands of dollars to bring in education specialists to improve the schools if they don't meet certain standards?  Why are schools measured against each other as to the %age of students passing functional tests, their SAT scores, etc.?

I think that a career in teaching as well as coaching and running clubs has left me extremely well informed on how much schools are expected to advance education and how much their are to develop socials skills.  Part of social skills is following rules.  I has NEVER been a function of schools to allow students to dress in sexually promoting outfits so that the students can learn to control their urges!  Note that most businesses have similar rules for workers: they want them focused on their jobs.

[Randomguy]

51 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

It has NEVER been a function of schools to allow students to dress in sexually promoting outfits so that the students can learn to control their urges! 

When you fight nature, nature inevitably wins.  

Teenagers will inevitably fixate on what they are attracted to, so it is about time that schools acknowledge that most kids are not little Einsteins and that they are aware of their surroundings and boobs and such.  If you cover the boobs, the boobs are still visible, just with clothing on top.  Yeah, the schools and teachers really do try and do what they can, but most parents by this point are just happy that their kids aren't getting arrested this weekend.  Plus, you gotta rate teachers and schools some way so the parents that don't get that their kids aren't super gifted can be satisfied that everyone is doing their best with the raw material they have been given.

Back to the statement, though.  You have captive students, and is it really the school's job or in its purview to tell private citizenry how to dress?  I think not, it is up to the students and parents to help kids learn that spaghetti straps are not the tool of the devil, it is just normal clothing.   What happens to societies where burkas are the everyday uniform?  Nothing good, I can tell you that.  Sure, some kids will dress trampy for a while, some will be tramps, that is just how people are wired.  The earlier you deal with them having to decide for themselves how they dress and how they are perceived because of it, the earlier they start thinking for themselves, which is really what kids ought to be taught to do anyway.

[maddmaxx ★]

One of the jobs of educating children is to teach them what the world (or most of it obviously) accepts as the norm.

[shootingstar]

30 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

One of the jobs of educating children is to teach them what the world (or most of it obviously) accepts as the norm.

Which both sad and good...it is partially teaching children how to conform.  That's ok if the school standard is respectful and teaches a broad range of history, cultures, politics that helps students question, analyze, debate.

A lot of teenage girls know full well how style of dress or non-dress can interest guys (or if they are gay.....).  For girls, they want to experiment and some hang on forever later into decades of their life to put in an element of sexiness often.  

I see dress especially in teen years and into their 20's, as part of someone's need to figure out their individuality.  Part of the reason at all-girls' private schools to wear uniforms is to divert over-focus and competition among girls based on just fashion, beauty standards, etc.  and get them to focus and appreciate people for how they are ...as people, beyond the clothing.

There IS in the real world with a real double standard and it's played out particularily in strict Muslim and Mennonite communities.

[MickinMD ★]

12 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

When you fight nature, nature inevitably wins.  

Teenagers will inevitably fixate on what they are attracted to, so it is about time that schools acknowledge that most kids are not little Einsteins and that they are aware of their surroundings and boobs and such.  If you cover the boobs, the boobs are still visible, just with clothing on top.  Yeah, the schools and teachers really do try and do what they can, but most parents by this point are just happy that their kids aren't getting arrested this weekend.  Plus, you gotta rate teachers and schools some way so the parents that don't get that their kids aren't super gifted can be satisfied that everyone is doing their best with the raw material they have been given.

Back to the statement, though.  You have captive students, and is it really the school's job or in its purview to tell private citizenry how to dress?  I think not, it is up to the students and parents to help kids learn that spaghetti straps are not the tool of the devil, it is just normal clothing.   What happens to societies where burkas are the everyday uniform?  Nothing good, I can tell you that.  Sure, some kids will dress trampy for a while, some will be tramps, that is just how people are wired.  The earlier you deal with them having to decide for themselves how they dress and how they are perceived because of it, the earlier they start thinking for themselves, which is really what kids ought to be taught to do anyway.

I wish you had spent time in a classroom and observed the difference in attention span when there's a scantily clad girl and when there's not.  In such a case YES, it's the schools' job to tell the students how to dress because otherwise they'll be sued silly by the parents.

Note that most businesses tell their employees how to dress and in most places it is illegal to walk down the street nude.  So the schools are also preparing students to enter the work force.

I wish you had to deal with parents - one who came to our school with a shotgun over his daughter and a boy - who demand behavioral and education standards from the school.

I appreciate your effort to support freedom, but if you were a teacher or administrator and made your pitch in front of parents, you'd start a riot.

[Ralphie ★]

Yesterday at a graduation party there was a woman with her outsized boobs on quite ostentatious display!  It was definitely distracting!

[Randomguy]

1 hour ago, MickinMD said:

I wish you had spent time in a classroom and observed the difference in attention span when there's a scantily clad girl and when there's not.  In such a case YES, it's the schools' job to tell the students how to dress because otherwise they'll be sued silly by the parents.

Note that most businesses tell their employees how to dress and in most places it is illegal to walk down the street nude.  So the schools are also preparing students to enter the work force.

I wish you had to deal with parents - one who came to our school with a shotgun over his daughter and a boy - who demand behavioral and education standards from the school.

I appreciate your effort to support freedom, but if you were a teacher or administrator and made your pitch in front of parents, you'd start a riot.

You are definitely in a tough spot. I would raise all of hell if a public school had ANY issue with how I would dress RO for school, you can bet there would be some action of some sort.  

One one hand, teach the subjects, on the other, you have to learn how society works.  Administration is screwed no matter what   

As far as workplace attire, not relevant at all, a public school is not private, so fuck all if they try and teach their standards of dress no matter the reason. That said, it wouldn’t be an issue anyway, RO is not dressing strangely at this point.  

Really though, part of learning is dealing with distraction. Trampy dress girl will be normalized internally after time, so everybody has to deal within a normal range of personality types and cultures and attire and just get used to it. 

Anyhow, we are talking extremes now, but I don’t think the original post was about extremes. Hot days and shorts and spaghetti straps is not risqué in chicks, or for the dudes. Maybe spaghetti straps on the dudes is a bit much, but you get the point. 

[The_Karen_Cooper_Incident]

12 hours ago, Randomguy said:

masturbate for longer than is natural.

It takes as long as it takes. But for men, we have a sign to stop. 

Shu Fang 

[Randomguy]

1 hour ago, Shu Fang said:

But for men, we have a sign to stop.