Pulling your own plug

[Further]

When you have out lasted your life, is it wrong to check out on your own terms ?

My wife says you go 'home' when God calls you. She is in a bad way and needs something to hold on to. My daughter has had some issues and my wife is her rock, so she may be disabled but she has a purpose, I think she hangs on for Annie.

I'm not so sure about God. I would like to check out peacefully, but I'd rather pull the trigger than linger on in dementia or life support. I would rather crawl under a rock and let the end come than waste what little I've accumulated keeping me alive for nothing. 

[ChrisL]

I had to watch both parents and a brother suffer painful deaths at cancers hands and would hate to go that way but I think I would fight on to the end.

I can’t quit, it’s not in my nature and I suspect my end will be when it will be...

Sorry you are going through this.  Strength brother.

[petitepedal ★]

I wont say in all cases..but dang. I feel like you have a "job"..and as long as you are needed to do that job..you hang in there..once it is complete..you can go in peace. 

[Further]

19 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Sorry you are going through this.  Strength brother.

I'm just doing what I said I said I would. She struggles,she often calls for God to take her home. I wonder how I would cope in her position. She is Annie's rock and I think that is what she gets out of bed for.

And buying crap on Amazon   

[sheep_herder ★]

Hang in there and just keep bringing in those boxes. We'll keep you in our thoughts and prayers.

[shootingstar]

You and your wife are incredible. 

[Randomguy]

I wanna pull my own plug.

Quality of life is way more important than quantity, and your daughter has to let her go on her mom’s terms.  It sucks for everybody, but it affords some dignity.  

I don’t think god has a hand at this level at all; physical laws are in place and we have no choice but to obey them.  Why live the downward spiral when it offers nothing but increasing pain?

[Page Turner]

38 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Why live the downward spiral when it offers nothing but increasing pain?

...this is actually a profound philosophical question.  There's no way to discuss it adequately in the cafe, though.

[onbike1939]

I'm tidying up my affairs at the moment having had my third heart attack earlier this week. I can't expect to continue to be lucky so it makes sense to make sure there are no loose ends for my daughter to worry about. I've always wanted the security of knowing I can leave this life on my terms, and do so without causing anyone distress but it's a difficult one. The decision to do so is not really a big deal for me as I see death as merely part of life and as a natural event. 

[Scrapr ★]

Is she on hospice? I think we have used hospice 4 times in the last 2 years.  Just wonderful, caring people. They have some rules since it is a Federal program. But overall it is just great. I would highly recommend. Hospice will evaluate and determine eligibility...like within 6 months of the end. And you stop curative treatments. It is just "comfort" care

Some states have Death with Dignity laws. People travel to use the program. It takes about 2 weeks or a little more to get the process rolling. For  WoScrapr it was a Godsend. Very very peaceful. 

[donkpow]

Consider the value to humanity that one offers when the decision is to endure and survive. 

[Randomguy]

14 minutes ago, donkpow said:

Consider the value to humanity that one offers when the decision is to endure and survive. 

What value is that?  There is a point where stoicism turns into stupidity.  Unending and increasing pain is not a fate that is worthwhile to chase.  

[donkpow]

1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

What value is that?  There is a point where stoicism turns into stupidity.  Unending and increasing pain is not a fate that is worthwhile to chase.  

WTF are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

[Page Turner]

9 hours ago, Page Turner said:

...this is actually a profound philosophical question.  There's no way to discuss it adequately in the cafe, though.

 

1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

What value is that?  There is a point where stoicism turns into stupidity.  Unending and increasing pain is not a fate that is worthwhile to chase.  

 

1 hour ago, donkpow said:

WTF are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

...I feel exactly like the prophet in his own house who is without honor.  

[donkpow]

1 minute ago, Page Turner said:

...I feel exactly like the prophet in his own house who is without honor.  

"Exactly" or approximately?

[Further]

2 hours ago, Scrapr said:

Is she on hospice?

She is nowhere near death, just in pain and depressed by the pain and her inability to do much. She is still able to care for herself but her condition continues to worsen and I'm sure she is frightened by what's coming 

[jsharr ★]

I want to leave this world with dignity.  If I am reduced to some drooling visage of my former self, sitting in a bed or chair for hours, days and weeks on end, wearing a diaper and having no idea who the people around me are, I have no value to anyone other than the industry that revolves around keeping me alive.

I would prefer to leave on my own terms, with the support of my friends and family.

I was there as cancer sucked the life out of my father in law.  I will never forget him crying out in pain as I had to carry him back to bed from the bathroom after I cleaned him up, as he could not stand to get off the toilet.   I do not want to put my sons through that, or their spouses, or my spouse.

Further, I am sorry you are going through this and I hope you find your answer, the one that is right for you and your wife, not everyone else.

Sorry it took me so long to respond, but this is one of those questions that deserves a honest, well thought out response.

Peace and strength brother.

[Scrapr ★]

3 minutes ago, Further said:

She is nowhere near death, just in pain and depressed by the pain and her inability to do much. She is still able to care for herself but her condition continues to worsen and I'm sure she is frightened by what's coming 

I'm sorry. It's so very hard to watch the love of your life in pain. 

Perhaps pallative care can help moderate the pain?  There are solutions that can help

[Square Wheels]

further, you are one of the nicest people I've never met.

[donkpow]

God appreciates people who are long suffering. The example of Job is provided for this.

[2Far ★]

Yeah. I think medical technology has outrun the ability of our humanity to cope. Quinlin and Schiavo come to mind as poster people.

[Airehead]

12 hours ago, onbike1939 said:

I'm tidying up my affairs at the moment having had my third heart attack earlier this week. I can't expect to continue to be lucky so it makes sense to make sure there are no loose ends for my daughter to worry about. I've always wanted the security of knowing I can leave this life on my terms, and do so without causing anyone distress but it's a difficult one. The decision to do so is not really a big deal for me as I see death as merely part of life and as a natural event. 

Oh dear--- third heart attack.  Sorry to hear this.  Keeping things tidy is a gift to those who survive us.

[Randomguy]

13 hours ago, onbike1939 said:

I'm tidying up my affairs at the moment having had my third heart attack earlier this week. I can't expect to continue to be lucky so it makes sense to make sure there are no loose ends for my daughter to worry about. I've always wanted the security of knowing I can leave this life on my terms, and do so without causing anyone distress but it's a difficult one. The decision to do so is not really a big deal for me as I see death as merely part of life and as a natural event. 

I am always sorry to hear about heart stuff.  My father has pretty much everything taken care of for himself and my mother, I guess you have to when my mom has had three DNR situations in the last five years (she is doing well now).

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

I am always sorry to hear about heart stuff.  My father has pretty much everything taken care of for himself and my mother, I guess you have to when my mom has had three DNR situations in the last five years (she is doing well now).

...I thought I had pre-planned just about everything with my mom.  Turns out there were some interesting surprises.  A couple of them were so complicated that I jjust walked away from any money that was there.  By far my best story is the one about getting handcuffed in the IRS office trying to file a partial return for her year of death.  

When I tell that one, people just can't stop chuckling. ?

[Randomguy]

8 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...I thought I had pre-planned just about everything with my mom.  Turns out there were some interesting surprises.  A couple of them were so complicated that I jjust walked away from any money that was there.  By far my best story is the one about getting handcuffed in the IRS office trying to file a partial return for her year of death.  

When I tell that one, people just can't stop chuckling. ?

Go on....

[Further]

1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

Go on....

Yeah...

[Kirby]

It's  hard to know how I'd feel at the time, and I can respect the decision a person makes.  I do think having someone who depends on you or a purpose you feel strongly is an important factor.

And I once again am impressed by the people here at SW. 

[Page Turner]

...so I'm standing there in line, see. It's a looooong line, because the IRS has cut way back on field office staff and services.  It's my second  trip, because the first one where I also stood in the looooong line, I did not have documents adequate to the requirements of the person at the desk (who is there to "help"me).  This time I've got everything in the file, including both the death cert and the official signed copy of the power of attorney, and the will naming me executor.  What I need is enough info from last year's return (lost in the shuffle of closing out the apartment and getting rid of all my mother's stuff), so that as the executor, I can pay the four or five thousand dollars she always owes in taxes.   Because nobody was keeping up on the quarterly advance payments in the last year of her life.  The whole last year or two was kind of a nightmare, and there were so many other things going on with repeat hospital admissions and just keeping up with finding a care situation that I wasn't really paying attention to the small stuff.

Stop me if you've heard this one before.

So I get up to the front of the line (for the second time now), and I say to the guy (who is there to "help" me), "I need my mother's last year's tax info, and also info on any quarterly payments that were made for this partial tax year of her death, so I can file that final return and pay whatever the estate owes de gubb'mint."  So he asks to see my official papers, citing the privacy issues with releasing such data. I provide these documents.  He looks at them, shakes his head, and tells me, "There's no raised seal.  I can only use these if there's  raised seal."  

So I (very coolly) 'splain to him in words of one or two syllables that they are originals.  There's no raised seal because they are not copies.

"NO, I can only accept these sufficient proof for the release of this information if there's a raised seal.  That means they've been filed with the county and are official. Sorry, you'll need to do that at county records first.  Next in line please."

So at the point, I tell him I;m not going anywhere, and he better get his manager. He does so. She is one of those frightful women who rise to the level of managing a field office for the federal gubb'mint using nothing more than guts, determination, backstabbing, and assorted deviant social skills.  I can see that when she walks out, but I repeat exactly what I've told her underling, and add that I worked in a federal position for 8 years, using just such documents to validate Social Security claims. And that I believe more training might be needed for her office staff. It's obvious she wants me gone at this point, she repeats the raised seal/file with the county nonsense and tells me to leave. The line is getting longer as this goes on, and there's only one line for help.

So at this point I make her what I think is a reasonable offer. "If you'll type out a short note that I appeared in person here today with these documents, and you refused to provide me with the information I needed to fulfill my legal obligation as executor, and sign it, I'm out the door and you'll never see me again." Because this way, three years later when the IRS sends me a delinquency notice and wants a bunch of money and penalties, my ass is covered.

 

But this manager woman is so invested in the size of her dick versus the size of my dick at this point that she says no, and calls her private security guard over (a quiet little retired guy who is just supplementing his meager fixed income with another job), repeats the order to leave immediately, and then instructs him to restrain and arrest me. "Cuff 'im. Danno" comes to mind.

 

They sit me down in a chair away from, but in full view of the line, with my hands cuffed behind me, where I wait until they can get an official Federal Protective Service cop (who tuns out to be another asshole...there's a surprise). They also put in a call to county sheriff, and two deputies stop by while we're waiting on the fed cop to see if I'm any immediate danger to life and property. At least I served as a valuable object lesson to all the other people in the line that day.

Fed cop writes me a 300 buck ticket for refusing to leave a gubb'mint facility,trespassing, (and creatin' a nuisance). But it takes him well over an hour and a half to arrive from wherever he was banging some chick while on duty to arrive and do so. I had to get a court date and some sympathetic public defender's office guy to beat the rap and get it dropped.  He was not surprised when he talked the whole story to the federal DA's flunky and the guy didn't want to move on to a trial.

 

I did come out 4 or 5,000 bucks ahead on the deal, which is not bad for a few days work.  This is not as good as @Kirby would tell it.  Just fill in whatever appropriate emotions you think I should have been feeling at the various points in time.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Randomguy]

17 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...so I'm standing there in line, see. It's a looooong line, because the IRS has cut way back on field office staff and services.  It's my second  trip, because the first one where I also stood in the looooong line, I did not have documents adequate to the requirements of the person at the desk (who is there to "help"me).  This time I've got everything in the file, including both the death cert and the official signed copy of the power of attorney, and the will naming me executor.  What I need is enough info from last year's return (lost in the shuffle of closing out the apartment and getting rid of all my mother's stuff), so that as the executor, I can pay the four or five thousand dollars she always owes in taxes.   Because nobody was keeping up on the quarterly advance payments in the last year of her life.  The whole last year or two was kind of a nightmare, and there were so many other things going on with repeat hospital admissions and just keeping up with finding a care situation that I wasn't really paying attention to the small stuff.

Stop me if you've heard this one before.

So I get up to the front of the line (for the second time now), and I say to the guy (who is there to "help" me), "I need my mother's last year's tax info, and also info on any quarterly payments that were made for this partial tax year of her death, so I can file that final return and pay whatever the estate owes de gubb'mint."  So he asks to see my official papers, citing the privacy issues with releasing such data. I provide these documents.  He looks at them, shakes his head, and tells me, "There's no raised seal.  I can only use these if there's  raised seal."  

So I (very coolly) 'splain to him in words of one or two syllables that they are originals.  There's no raised seal because they are not copies.

"NO, I can only accept these sufficient proof for the release of this information if there's a raised seal.  That means they've been filed with the county and are official. Sorry, you'll need to do that at county records first.  Next in line please."

So at the point, I tell him I;m not going anywhere, and he better get his manager. He does so. She is one of those frightful women who rise to the level of managing a field office for the federal gubb'mint using nothing more than guts, determination, backstabbing, and assorted deviant social skills.  I can see that when she walks out, but I repeat exactly what I've told her underling, and add that I worked in a federal position for 8 years, using just such documents to validate Social Security claims. And that I believe more training might be needed for her office staff. It's obvious she wants me gone at this point, she repeats the raised seal/file with the county nonsense and tells me to leave. The line is getting longer as this goes on, and there's only one line for help.

So at this point I make her what I think is a reasonable offer. "If you'll type out a short note that I appeared in person here today with these documents, and you refused to provide me with the information I needed to fulfill my legal obligation as executor, and sign it, I'm out the door and you'll never see me again." Because this way, three years later when the IRS sends me a delinquency notice and wants a bunch of money and penalties, my ass is covered.

 

But this manager woman is so invested in the size of her dick versus the size of my dick at this point that she says no, and calls her private security guard over (a quiet little retired guy who is just supplementing his meager fixed income with another job), repeats the order to leave immediately, and then instructs him to restrain and arrest me. "Cuff 'im. Danno" comes to mind.

 

They sit me down in a chair away from, but in full view of the line, with my hands cuffed behind me, where I wait until they can get an official Federal Protective Service cop (who tuns out to be another asshole...there's a surprise). They also put in a call to county sheriff, and two deputies stop by while we're waiting on the fed cop to see if I'm any immediate danger to life and property. At least I served as a valuable object lesson to all the other people in the line that day.

Fed cop writes me a 300 buck ticket for refusing to leave a gubb'mint facility,trespassing, (and creatin' a nuisance). But it takes him well over an hour and a half to arrive from wherever he was banging some chick while on duty to arrive and do so. I had to get a court date and some sympathetic public defender's office guy to beat the rap and get it dropped.  He was not surprised when he talked the whole story to the federal DA's flunky and the guy didn't want to move on to a trial.

 

I did come out 4 or 5,000 bucks ahead on the deal, which is not bad for a few days work.  This is not as good as @Kirby would tell it.  Just fill in whatever appropriate emotions you think I should have been feeling at the various points in time.  

 

 

 

 

 

This makes so many emotions surface.  I am happy at the ending, frustrated for you in the beginning and the middle.  Government workers are often the most horrible of creatures, with little redeeming characteristics that could possibly mark them as human.  There are some good ones, too, to be sure, but the subhumans rule the roost in most places.

Congrats on telling a very compelling tale!

[Page Turner]

41 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Congrats on telling a very compelling tale!

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair." ---Page Dickens

[Prophet Zacharia]

On 7/20/2019 at 10:59 AM, Further said:

She is nowhere near death, just in pain and depressed by the pain and her inability to do much. She is still able to care for herself but her condition continues to worsen and I'm sure she is frightened by what's coming 

I am sorry, Further. Chronic pain is so debilitating. Is she getting treatment for depression?