12string Posted August 20, 2019 Share #1 Posted August 20, 2019 and earth is the one in a zillion to support life (as we know it), why all the talk about learning how to colonize Mars so we'll have a place to hang out after we screw up earth? Mars is about -80F. Wouldn't it be cheaper to figure out how to survive an earth that's a couple degrees warmer than try to get to Mars and make it liveable? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted August 20, 2019 Share #2 Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, 12string said: Wouldn't it be cheaper to figure out how to survive an earth that's a couple degrees warmer than try to get to Mars and make it liveable? That's just boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 21, 2019 Share #3 Posted August 21, 2019 How much is a planet worth, that can support life? Get back to me when you figure it out, include avoided risk numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted August 21, 2019 Share #4 Posted August 21, 2019 Cause humans have a history of simply doing things just to see if they can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted August 21, 2019 Share #5 Posted August 21, 2019 What is the problem with the extinction of a species? Why colonize anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 21, 2019 Share #6 Posted August 21, 2019 Two words - Tang and velcro! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 21, 2019 Share #7 Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, wilbur said: What is the problem with the extinction of a species? Why colonize anywhere? So now it's not enough to pretend Mars would have no value, you want to kill us off so we will have no value. Civilisations need resources. We will tap the vast wealth in the Belt first. The tech we develop for that will make terraforming Mars possible. At that point, it will be the next obvious step. That will be several centuries from now, assuming we don't devalue ourselves out of existence first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 21, 2019 Share #8 Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Razors Edge said: Two words - Tang and velcro! The Moon program paid for itself from the tech it developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted August 21, 2019 Share #9 Posted August 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, late said: So now it's not enough to pretend Mars would have no value, you want to kill us off so we will have no value. Civilisations need resources. We will tap the vast wealth in the Belt first. The tech we develop for that will make terraforming Mars possible. At that point, it will be the next obvious step. That will be several centuries from now, assuming we don't devalue ourselves out of existence first. This planet and this solar system will end. What does it matter who is at the helm when it does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12string Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share #10 Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, wilbur said: This planet and this solar system will end. What does it matter who is at the helm when it does? I guess it was a total waste of time to put the eggs back on the shelf and pick up the box with the later expiration date. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted August 21, 2019 Share #11 Posted August 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, 12string said: I guess it was a total waste of time to put the eggs back on the shelf and pick up the box with the later expiration date. You can carry that regret to your deathbed knowing it never really mattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted August 21, 2019 Share #12 Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, wilbur said: This planet and this solar system will end. What does it matter who is at the helm when it does? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 21, 2019 Share #13 Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Zealot said: Homestead II seems like a cool adventure, and the trip pretty uneventful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 21, 2019 Share #14 Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, wilbur said: This planet and this solar system will end. What does it matter who is at the helm when it does? That's a lot of death to avoid you know what... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 21, 2019 Share #15 Posted August 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Homestead II seems like a cool adventure, and the trip pretty uneventful. A craft like that, if it lost the ability to protect itself (with some sort of power shield) could erode into dust in seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 21, 2019 Share #16 Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, late said: A craft like that, if it lost the ability to protect itself (with some sort of power shield) could erode into dust in seconds. For sure. That forward shield is powerful, but the guidance system made a mistake not avoiding that monster sized space rock. It was smart enough to "heal" and redirect resources back to the shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted August 21, 2019 Share #17 Posted August 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Razors Edge said: Two words - Tang and velcro! Cordless power tools, Barbarella, Moonraker, Space Food Bars, Hookers from Mars 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 21, 2019 Share #18 Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: For sure. That forward shield is powerful, but the guidance system made a mistake not avoiding that monster sized space rock. It was smart enough to "heal" and redirect resources back to the shield. They really had to stomp all over common sense to turn that into a love story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 21, 2019 Share #19 Posted August 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, jsharr said: Cordless power tools, Barbarella, Moonraker, Space Food Bars, Hookers from Mars Back then, Maine had one or two computers. I am sure the big insurance company had one, and there might have been one elsewhere. If you count computer devices at least as strong as the one that went to the Moon, we have millions, maybe more than 10 million. Just in Maine, a state with only about a million people.. That was the first small computer, by the way, the one that went to the Moon. Computer companies didn't want to make a small computer, NASA eventually resorted to bribery. I don't imagine you have a computer. Or a bunch of chips in your car, or your cellphone, or... Welcome to Earth. Since this is your first time on my planet, I'd be glad to fill you in on all those details you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12string Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share #20 Posted August 21, 2019 In case you need help staying up at night: http://neo.ssa.esa.int/risk-page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickinMD ★ Posted August 21, 2019 Share #21 Posted August 21, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 11:37 AM, 12string said: and earth is the one in a zillion to support life (as we know it), why all the talk about learning how to colonize Mars so we'll have a place to hang out after we screw up earth? Mars is about -80F. Wouldn't it be cheaper to figure out how to survive an earth that's a couple degrees warmer than try to get to Mars and make it liveable? It would be even cheaper to do the things that will keep Earth from getting a couple degrees warmer, but humanity won't do it. Consequently, we should be putting a lot of government research money into things like cheap desalination and transport of sea water, better irrigation systems - where most of our fresh water is used but 50% of it evaporates. But we won't even do that - until there's a severe drought, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted August 21, 2019 Share #22 Posted August 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Razors Edge said: Homestead II seems like a cool adventure, and the trip pretty uneventful. That looks pretty cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted August 21, 2019 Share #23 Posted August 21, 2019 12 hours ago, late said: How much is a planet worth, that can support life? Get back to me when you figure it out, include avoided risk numbers. Too late now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 22, 2019 Share #24 Posted August 22, 2019 4 hours ago, maddmaxx said: Too late now. Maybe, maybe not. NASA thinks it will have a fusion drive engine in about 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted August 22, 2019 Share #25 Posted August 22, 2019 4 hours ago, late said: Maybe, maybe not. NASA thinks it will have a fusion drive engine in about 20 years. So do the Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 22, 2019 Share #26 Posted August 22, 2019 3 hours ago, maddmaxx said: So do the Russians. Out tech is a lot more sophisticated, and you know that far better than most of us. IOW, you have an entirely different reason... the same one you always have, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted August 22, 2019 Share #27 Posted August 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, late said: Out tech is a lot more sophisticated, and you know that far better than most of us. IOW, you have an entirely different reason... As I've posted before I used to work next door to the remains of CANEL's hot lab. If built in orbit or beyond and confined to deep space it would at least be dangerous only to the crew and passengers. Your constant conspiracy's about my reasons are just bullshit from what appears to be a damaged imagination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 22, 2019 Share #28 Posted August 22, 2019 Just now, maddmaxx said: As I've posted before I used to work next door to the remains of CANEL's hot lab. If built in orbit or beyond and confined to deep space it would at least be dangerous only to the crew and passengers. Has to be developed down here. Of course, if we had built a proper Space station at L5, things might be different. But our nattering nabobs of negativity kept that from happening. It's worth it, that drive could make mining the Belt possible, which would make the Gold Rush look like pocket change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted August 22, 2019 Share #29 Posted August 22, 2019 NERVA was tested at Jackass Flats in the Nevada test site. It was a prophetic name for such a test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 22, 2019 Share #30 Posted August 22, 2019 37 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: NERVA was tested at Jackass Flats in the Nevada test site. It was a prophetic name for such a test. NERVA died in the early 70s, almost a half century ago. Newsflash, Nixon isn't president, and Francisco Franco is still dead! https://www.space.com/fusion-powered-spacecraft-could-launch-2028.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted August 22, 2019 Share #31 Posted August 22, 2019 The researchers have not yet demonstrated fusion with their device, but aim to do so by 2019 to 2020. Paluszek detailed his company's research June 3 at The Dawn of Private Space Science Symposium in New York. https://www.space.com/37146-nuclear-fusion-rockets-interstellar-spaceflight.html This might take another grant or 20. The goal looks like it's still "producing more power out than fed in". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted August 22, 2019 Share #32 Posted August 22, 2019 3 hours ago, late said: Of course, if we had built a proper Space station at L5, things might be different. And this thinking is just as far off the rocker as the FES. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 22, 2019 Share #33 Posted August 22, 2019 18 hours ago, Zealot said: That looks pretty cool! It was neat. And the movie was fun. Lightweight, but fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 22, 2019 Share #34 Posted August 22, 2019 2 hours ago, maddmaxx said: The researchers have not yet demonstrated fusion with their device, but aim to do so by 2019 to 2020. Paluszek detailed his company's research June 3 at The Dawn of Private Space Science Symposium in New York. https://www.space.com/37146-nuclear-fusion-rockets-interstellar-spaceflight.html This might take another grant or 20. The goal looks like it's still "producing more power out than fed in". These engines are going to require Helium 3, and we can mine it out of the Moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted August 22, 2019 Share #35 Posted August 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, late said: These engines are going to require Helium 3, and we can mine it out of the Moon. That will certainly facilitate the 2028 launch date. Now we're looking at about 40 more grants. Researchers love those sorts of grants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted August 22, 2019 Share #36 Posted August 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: That will certainly facilitate the 2028 launch date. Now we're looking at about 40 more grants. Researchers love those sorts of grants. Actually, they quietly hate them. Back in the old millennium, business in Space went over a billion/yr. We do more business in Space every year, and the sky is not the limit. It will keep going up to a trillion/yr and more. Although that will take a long time. Civilisations need resources, and there are vast amounts of the things we will need in the Belt. Make the Gold Rush look like pocket change. The first country to mine the Belt will be the top dog for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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