Suppose you were suffering from painful back problems

[Road Runner]

You are currently somewhat mobile and can still ride a bike, but the back problems are gradually worsening.  You could get major surgery that most likely would help a lot, but the full recovery time is almost 6 months.  During recovery, your ability to do stuff would be very limited and your back would still be painful as hell while it is healing, maybe even requiring several weeks of opioid use.

A significant factor in all of this is your age.  In this example, you are 71.  You may have only a few decent years left to screw around on this orb.  Do you opt for the surgery and give up 6 months of the limited time you have left, or opt to stick it out as is, living with the pain but trying to maximize your remaining time?  Nothing in this equation is a given.  The surgery might be great, but it might cause other problems.  Your remaining time might be 6 months or several years.

It is a quandary.    

What say you?

[Kirby]

Is there an age limit for the surgery?  I'd probably delay the surgery as long as possible, if the pain was manageable and didn't limit my actions too much, but I wouldn't wait past the time I could have the surgery or that I felt I'd be able to do the necessary rehab.

[Road Runner]

Just now, Kirby said:

Is there an age limit for the surgery?  I'd probably delay the surgery as long as possible, if the pain was manageable and didn't limit my actions too much, but I wouldn't wait past the time I could have the surgery or that I felt I'd be able to do the necessary rehab.

This exact train of thought is what occurred to me as well.  I do not know the answer but I will be asking the question.  Thanks, Kirby.  

[Longjohn ★]

My dad had old school back surgery and the recovery was longer than that back then. When he recovered he went on to live a good life for many years with no regrets. The surgery has improved a lot over the years, I’d say research good lazer spine surgeons and get it done. Living alone might make the first month pretty tough. Can you find a live in girlfriend to help out for awhile?

[Randomguy]

Second the concubine suggestion, and get the surgery.  You need a functional back when you get older, and recovery is much harder the older you get.   

Now. 

[Prophet Zacharia]

1 hour ago, Longjohn said:

Can you find a live in girlfriend to help out for awhile?

Maybe a former jeopardy player?

I’d defer while the pain was tolerable and not significantly impacting the quality of my life, but once pain became a significant limiter, I’d try the surgery if there is reasonable expectation of significant improvements after rehab.

[Ralphie ★]

4 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

Maybe a former jeopardy player?

My thoughts eggzactly.

This is a tough question (of course, that is why it is being asked!).  I tend to put off any surgery as long as possible, mainly because if it doesn;t work oot perfectly it could make things worse.  Of course this is snot very logical and is all dependent on what probability you assign to various outcomes. There are average numbers available but every person and situation is of course different.

This is snot a good question for Mr. Kimball.

 

[Ralphie ★]

Todd Rundgren might agree that we have to get RR a woman.

 

[Ralphie ★]

Don;t give me that confused shit! 

 

[Road Runner]

4 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

Don;t give me that confused shit! 

Kirstin has no use for an old guy with a broken back...   

[Ralphie ★]

3 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

Kirstin has no use for an old guy with a broken back...   

You are a fun gi though!  You want someone a little older anyhoo, who can relate to your references.

[Road Runner]

[Dirtyhip]

I would get the surgery, take the drugs, eat pot brownies, buy some tv upgrades like cable, check out some books from the library, and get a big sharpie and a calendar ready. The calendar and sharpie will add some joy as I X off each day in the count down. 

I might  buy some puzzles or other things to play with for when I could sit up more and help me pass the hours.

[petitepedal ★]

71 is not that old!!! ..how confident are you in the surgeon? Did you get a second opinion?  I have a resident who had back surgery this week...he is in his 80's....He went from walking to barely moving...BOOM surgery and soon...like this week in his case.  If you have it as an option try to plan your down time accordingly...have the surgery when it will interfere less with cycling and "life"...if you lived here...January...cos unless you are a diehard...not much cycling January & February...

[Ralphie ★]

4 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

OK, you can consider her your virtual daughter or granddaughter.

This new one has a nose ring. :(

 

[Ralphie ★]

We used to have a young engineer at work who looked and acted very similar to her.  Same age as daughter #1. 

It will be interesting to see how the new Jeopardy babe plays oot.  Sure, a big demerit for the nose ring but quirky personalities can be entertaining.

[Road Runner]

All the joking aside, if I was still married, I would probably have already had the surgery.  Recuperating on my own from major back surgery is a significant concern.

[Ralphie ★]

4 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

All the joking aside, if I was still married, I would probably have already had the surgery.  Recuperating on my own from major back surgery is a significant concern.

How much help do you think you'd need?  You should be able to get a visiting nurse or something, ramping it down as you improve.  What did the doctor say aboot the recovery period?

[petitepedal ★]

At your age..you should qualify for some recovery in a nursing home type setting..yeah I know the name nursing home is scary..but many offer after hospitalization transitional care...talk to your doc about that too...remind him you are on your own..and if you might want to check with pt people beforehand so you can add a grab bar before if necessary. It is doable

[2Far ★]

I'd ask a random, nonmedical, Internet forum for advice. 

Anyhow, if the surgery was inevitable,  I would prolly go ahead and have it now while I was in better physical shape so the recovery would be faster. 

[Randomguy]

1 minute ago, 2Far said:

I'd ask a random, nonmedical, Internet forum for advice. 

Anyhow, if the surgery was inevitable,  I would prolly go ahead and have it now while I was in better physical shape so the recovery would be faster. 

I will come down and help, but I am not wiping your butt. 

[Ralphie ★]

6 minutes ago, 2Far said:

 

I'd ask a random, nonmedical, Internet forum for advice

 

Me too!

[MoseySusan]

This random non medical internet persona says stick it out without surgery. Get you to a PT for rehabilitation of whatever healthy tissue you still have and avoid opiates of any kind. Life partly lived is still life, and even if your new normal has you walking bent over with a cane, there’s a story to be told in that. Get a recumbent bike. 

[Road Runner]

39 minutes ago, 2Far said:

I'd ask a random, non-medical, Internet forum for advice. 

This is good advice.    

Actually, there are several life issues (sort of non-medical) involved with this situation that I thought "regular" people might be able to help me with.  Most of you have done just that.  I thank all of you for taking the time to respond.  

[maddmaxx ★]

13 hours ago, Road Runner said:

You are currently somewhat mobile and can still ride a bike, but the back problems are gradually worsening.  You could get major surgery that most likely would help a lot, but the full recovery time is almost 6 months.  During recovery, your ability to do stuff would be very limited and your back would still be painful as hell while it is healing, maybe even requiring several weeks of opioid use.

A significant factor in all of this is your age.  In this example, you are 71.  You may have only a few decent years left to screw around on this orb.  Do you opt for the surgery and give up 6 months of the limited time you have left, or opt to stick it out as is, living with the pain but trying to maximize your remaining time?  Nothing in this equation is a given.  The surgery might be great, but it might cause other problems.  Your remaining time might be 6 months or several years.

It is a quandary.    

What say you?

I'd also check with the laser spine surgery folks to get an appreciation of whether or not there is modern technology that's different from what your current doctor knows.  It might be quackery or it might only cover simple problems, but it's worth looking into.

[Road Runner]

52 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I will come down and help, but I am not wiping your butt. 

This is one of my major concerns.  If you don't wipe my butt, things are going to get pretty nasty down there.  Maybe I will have to stop eating.  

[Ralphie ★]

2 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

This is one of my major concerns.  If you don't wipe my butt, things are going to get pretty nasty down there.  Maybe I will have to stop eating.  

RG is mean.

 

[Road Runner]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

I'd also check with the laser spine surgery folks to get an appreciation of whether or not there is modern technology that's different from what your current doctor knows.  It might be quackery or it might only cover simple problems, but it's worth looking into.

Thanks for the suggestion, but without going into a whole lot of gory details, my problems are way beyond laser spine surgery.

My brother thinks I should try acupuncture.    

[Ralphie ★]

Just now, Road Runner said:

My brother thinks I should try acupuncture.    

I would maybe try accupressure, not the puncture!

[Ralphie ★]

2 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

Thanks for the suggestion, but without going into a whole lot of gory details, my problems are way beyond laser spine surgery.

My brother thinks I should try acupuncture.    

Where is your brother?  Tell him to get his ass over and wipe your butt!

 

[Road Runner]

Just now, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

Where is your brother?  Tell him to get his ass over and wipe your butt!

 

Atlanta.  He is older than me and has enough trouble wiping his own butt.  

He doesn't know the extent of my problems.  He thinks I am just going through the usual old guy back pain stuff.  I'm surprised he didn't recommend the Teeter.    

[late]

It's a gamble either way..

A number of things, like arthritis, could take the option of surgery off the table.

I'm in PT for my back right now. Going to a hot tub manana to give it a break.

Whatever you choose, good luck, and don't forget pot is good for pain.

[MickinMD ★]

12 hours ago, Road Runner said:

"You could get major surgery that most likely would help a lot, but the full recovery time is almost 6 months."

"A significant factor in all of this is your age.  In this example, you are 71.  You may have only a few decent years left to screw around on this orb."

The choice is a personal one and the person suffering should make sure to be informed of all the plusses and minuses before deciding for or against the operation.

This is my basic attitude:

Those who reach 71 have a remaining life expectancy of 13.73 years for males and 15.82 years for females.  Add a few years to that for non-smokers.

So I, now at 69 or in my 70's, wouldn't - and haven't - avoided surgery.  6 months recovery vs over a decade of pain?  I'll take the 6 months.  For back problems that might mean a very restricted ability to get around, but I'd buy/build/arrange things so I could.  My total recovery for extensive rotator cuff surgery was a year and a half.

Of course, it also depends on what degree of recovery you can get from an operation.  If it only minimally cures the problem or is a delaying measure before the same problem returns, then maybe it's not worth it.  But if there's a reasonable chance of a permanent total or near-total recovery, I'd go for it if it was me at almost any age.  I have an 81 year-old cousin who has been trying to recover from knee problems and is willing to undergo any procedure so she's eventually more mobile.

I have friends who have the same kind of ankle and shoulder issues I had who have the attitude of "why go through the pain and take so long to recover when you're older?"

Now their problems are worse, they're in pain when they move in certain ways, and I'm free of problems and able to things like whitewater rafting 13 months after surgery (that's me at top left being engulfed by the wave):

From 2015-17, my shoulder never completely healed after therapy alone. Like the old Dion Warwick/Burt Bacharach song, there was "always something there to remind me."  I had to watch what position I put my arm in, how much weight I lifted with it, and woke up with a sore shoulder if I moved into the wrong position while sleeping.  What a curse!  I wasn't going to live with it as I wasted away over the next couple decades!

I had the rotator cuff operation on June 22, 2017 - doc also noted there's no hint of arthritis whatsoever. The other rotator cuff was operated on around 2003.  Before and after that were hip (therapy cured) and Achilles Tendon (one operation, one therapy alone) problems.  In EVERY case, I wished afterward that I had gone to the specialist sooner.

In 2019, for the first time in the 2000's, I have NO connective tissue or other problems except I've had to be patient about getting back into shape.  Range of motion is great and pain free.  I reached age 69 on Oct. 1 and expect to be active: cycling or walking a few days/week, swimming and other physically demanding activities for the next decade.  If I have another joint problem when I'm 71, I'll go right to the surgeon and get it taken care of ASAP.  My body may detiorate sooner than expected, but why pass up the chance to be more active?

[Allen ★]

I had the surgery (fused and plated my neck). I felt better the moment I woke up. Well worth the 6 months. My pain meds was one bottle of loratab. 

[MoseySusan]

22 minutes ago, Allen said:

I had the surgery (fused and plated my neck). I felt better the moment I woke up. Well worth the 6 months. My pain meds was one bottle of loratab. 

Or, do this. 

Suffer well is often the road not taken. 

[Square Wheels]

Install a bidet.

Get fixed.

[maddmaxx ★]

14 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Install a bidet.

Get fixed.

Why aren't you on vacation........................Don't you trust us?

[Square Wheels]

Just now, maddmaxx said:

Why aren't you on vacation........................Don't you trust us?

On a plane.  I hate just sitting for hours............................... nope, but I have @Dirtyhip now.

[Dirtyhip]

I used my powers today for good.  Call me Glenda, if you want

[Indy]

I suffer from constant back problems, have since I was 17.  I go to a chiropractor once a month and that usually does the trick for a month.

[donkpow]

The state of the science includes a regenerative therapy now in phase III trials. Mesoblast Limited is an Australian company specializing in these types of products. "Disc degeneration" is the target and supposedly one injection provides three years of pain relief.

"MPC-06-ID is a Phase 3 product candidate for the treatment of chronic low back pain caused by disc degeneration (CLBP). It is being developed for patients who have exhausted conservative treatment options, may have failed epidural steroid injections and have no further treatment option other than invasive and costly surgical interventions."

[Randomguy]

18 hours ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

RG is mean.

 

Don’t worry, I don’t wipe my own butt, either.  

[team scooter]

For years Mrs had cartilage growing on her spine, crushing her nerves. It progressively got worse where she would be walking, twist the wrong way, and fall to the ground in severe pain. They removed the growth with part of her spine and fused that section. She has been pain free for ten years.

Had a friend who lived with extreme back pain for 30 years. They told him the surgery would be risky with a 50/50 chance it might paralyze him.  When his self medicating started effecting his life negatively, he final had enough and had the surgery. It was successful and he wishes he had those 30 painful years back.

[Ralphie ★]

5 minutes ago, team scooter said:

50/50 chance

Well his hesitation was understandable!  Darn butt-covering doctors!

[Airehead]

There might be a possibility of a short stay in rehab or daily in home aide.  Senior care is not just for seniors who need long term care and actually not just for seniors.   When Mr Aire came home from “the airplane incident we don’t talk about”   We had a person who came for three hours mid day. She made sure he had food and did basic clean up of him and the house.  The price was very reasonable although I think the Air Force, workman’s comp for civil air patrol, actually paid for it.   If you go this route, make a notebook with written lists before the surgery. Do the intake before the surgery and have the list then. 

22 hours ago, Road Runner said:

All the joking aside, if I was still married, I would probably have already had the surgery.  Recuperating on my own from major back surgery is a significant concern.

I our case the home care allowed me to go into work for a couple hours a day and gave us some sense of normal. 

[Longjohn ★]

 

[Page Turner]

...given the limited information you've provided, it's impossible to give you a decent answer. As you are doubtless by now aware, the back is a complex structure.  Many of the things that go wrong with it respond well to surgery, but there are a great many that do not.  While I'd love to assume the physicians.surgeons you're paying for advice have a handle on how well your particular issue will be resolved, That's not realistic to assume.  

I speak to you as the world's foremost authority on my own history if back issues.  Mine, though significant on both x-ray imaging and the fancy MRI/CT scanning of the time, did not appear to be especially good candidates for surgical repair.  So it hurt a lot, and for a long time.  But I also was compelled to become somewhat expert in alternatives to surgery, like Yoga, Feldenkrais, Tai Chi, Chi Gung, and mind-body techniques for dealing with protracted pain.  A chiropractor did seem to help me at times, but the adjustments never lasted to the point where the issue was resolved.  Yoga was, I think, the one thing that led me in the direction of some more permanent fix, both through a consciousness off alignment of the spine, an awareness of the muscles involved in my special issues, and the stretching, balancing, and strengthening of them.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that as time went on, some stuff that was busted back there kind of stitched itself back together. And I'm certain that some of the nerves that were transmitting the pain sensations died over the months and years it lasted.  I guess I don't really have much in the way of practical advice.  I only checked in because I know it kind of wears you down after a while, and thought maybe it might help to hear from someone who ended up more or less OK.

 

[MoseySusan]

56 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...given the limited information you've provided, it's impossible to give you a decent answer. As you are doubtless by now aware, the back is a complex structure.  Many of the things that go wrong with it respond well to surgery, but there are a great many that do not.  While I'd love to assume the physicians.surgeons you're paying for advice have a handle on how well your particular issue will be resolved, That's not realistic to assume.  

I speak to you as the world's foremost authority on my own history if back issues.  Mine, though significant on both x-ray imaging and the fancy MRI/CT scanning of the time, did not appear to be especially good candidates for surgical repair.  So it hurt a lot, and for a long time.  But I also was compelled to become somewhat expert in alternatives to surgery, like Yoga, Feldenkrais, Tai Chi, Chi Gung, and mind-body techniques for dealing with protracted pain.  A chiropractor did seem to help me at times, but the adjustments never lasted to the point where the issue was resolved.  Yoga was, I think, the one thing that led me in the direction of some more permanent fix, both through a consciousness off alignment of the spine, an awareness of the muscles involved in my special issues, and the stretching, balancing, and strengthening of them.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that as time went on, some stuff that was busted back there kind of stitched itself back together. And I'm certain that some of the nerves that were transmitting the pain sensations died over the months and years it lasted.  I guess I don't really have much in the way of practical advice.  I only checked in because I know it kind of wears you down after a while, and thought maybe it might help to hear from someone who ended up more or less OK.

 

The path less taken, that of suffer well.