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Steelers and Browns Thursday night


Dottleshead

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17 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Ah no.  I'm not going to bother watching the replay.  It's all the same to me anyway.  Needs bread to be complete.  IMO football is slowly destroying itself.

So not going to watch, but going to argue even though it is all the same to you anyway?  Do I have that right?  Asking for a friend.  Also, be careful not to fall off the edge of the earth.  It is flat you know.

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"Garrett’s action was not unprovoked. Garrett took Rudolph to the ground after Rudolph completed a pass. He did not get off Rudolph and then Rudolph appeared to try to kick Garrett off him while attempting to remove Garrett’s helmet. Garrett retaliated for the world to see."

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/browns/nfl-could-banish-browns-garrett-for-remainder-of-season-for/article_b6b4bd92-07ab-11ea-a557-db3dede77522.html

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"Garrett has been suspended without pay indefinitely -- at a minimum of the remainder of the regular season and postseason -- and must meet with the commissioner's office prior to a decision on his reinstatement. He was also fined an additional amount. Garrett violated the unnecessary roughness and unsportsmanlike conduct rules, as well as fighting, removing the helmet of an opponent and using the helmet as a weapon.

"Pouncey has been suspended without pay for one game and fined an additional amount for fighting, including punching and kicking an opponent.

"Ogunjobi has been suspended without pay for one game and fined an additional amount for unnecessary roughness, specifically for shoving an opposing player to the ground during an altercation.

"Additional discipline for other players will be forthcoming through the standard accountability process, including those players that left the bend to enter the fight area.

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24 minutes ago, jsharr said:

He had one hand under the back of the helmet and if you watch the replay, had the helmet well off of Garrett's head before he lost his grip, possibly because Steelers linemen were pulling Garrett off.   

image.png.a9167f8682a5a5ef11929d4b7c4a669a.png

 

Watch the video starting at around 1:45 and watch how far Rudolph yanked the helmet off Garretts head before he lost his grip.
 

 

The only thing that would matter to me is if Rudolph swung a helmet at Garrett first. For anything else, this is a grossly inappropriate act, akin to Marty McSorley swinging his hockey stick at Donald Brasher’s head. Possibly because Don wasn’t wearing a poppy? This was McSorley’s last NHL game, IIRC, and he stood trial for assault.

 

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6 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

"Garrett has been suspended without pay indefinitely -- at a minimum of the remainder of the regular season and postseason -- and must meet with the commissioner's office prior to a decision on his reinstatement. He was also fined an additional amount. Garrett violated the unnecessary roughness and unsportsmanlike conduct rules, as well as fighting, removing the helmet of an opponent and using the helmet as a weapon.

"Pouncey has been suspended without pay for one game and fined an additional amount for fighting, including punching and kicking an opponent.

"Ogunjobi has been suspended without pay for one game and fined an additional amount for unnecessary roughness, specifically for shoving an opposing player to the ground during an altercation.

"Additional discipline for other players will be forthcoming through the standard accountability process, including those players that left the bend to enter the fight area.

Seems surprisingly reasonable.

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10 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

The only thing that would matter to me is if Rudolph swung a helmet at Garrett first. For anything else, this is a grossly inappropriate act, akin to Marty McSorley swinging his hockey stick at Donald Brasher’s head. Possibly because Don wasn’t wearing a poppy? This was McSorley’s last NHL game, IIRC, and he stood trial for assault.

 

I think Garrett should be tried for assault with a deadly weapon, intent to do bodily harm, general assholery and douchebagginess at the very least.  I would have no problem with him serving time for this.  It was uncalled for, regardless of provocation.   Like I said, the refs lost control early on, the Browns were thugs most of the night on D and the end result was a vicious attack, 

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22 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

"Garrett has been suspended without pay indefinitely -- at a minimum of the remainder of the regular season and postseason -- and must meet with the commissioner's office prior to a decision on his reinstatement. He was also fined an additional amount. Garrett violated the unnecessary roughness and unsportsmanlike conduct rules, as well as fighting, removing the helmet of an opponent and using the helmet as a weapon.

"Pouncey has been suspended without pay for one game and fined an additional amount for fighting, including punching and kicking an opponent.

"Ogunjobi has been suspended without pay for one game and fined an additional amount for unnecessary roughness, specifically for shoving an opposing player to the ground during an altercation.

"Additional discipline for other players will be forthcoming through the standard accountability process, including those players that left the bend to enter the fight area.

Garrett is suspended for the playoffs too? I thought he played for the Browns. That seems excessive.

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So Garrett's suspension is the longest ever handed out.  The previous one was for a similar incident involving my Cowboys.  I do not remember this.

Before Garrett, the longest ban in NFL history came in 2006, when then-Tennessee Titans defensive lineman Albert Haynesworth was suspended five games for ripping the helmet off of Dallas Cowboys center Andre Gurode and kicking and stomping on his face.

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1 hour ago, Dottie said:

The NFL has got to come down hard on this. I mean really hard. This cannot be acceptable in the game, period.

As I see it, Rudolph reacted to a possible roughing by escalating beyond what the context demanded and was clearly unreasonable.  He clearly wanted Garrett’s helmet off forcibly, instigating a retaliatory response.  That is all on Rudolph so far.  If it stopped there, two ejections, and a. one game suspension for each player is fine, along with a fine for both. Rudolph especially, as the QB, should be smarter than to take on a DE and just let an official call roughing if needed.  Instead he went all dim witted, you get what you get there.  

Garrett should have calmed himself down once the helmet was off, but the hatless village idiot decided to again go in for a shove and got bopped in return.  

Tempers flaring, boys will be boys.  

In my book, Rudolph is gone for a game, Garrett two games, Pouncey is clear. 

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37 minutes ago, jsharr said:

So Garrett's suspension is the longest ever handed out.  The previous one was for a similar incident involving my Cowboys.  I do not remember this.

Before Garrett, the longest ban in NFL history came in 2006, when then-Tennessee Titans defensive lineman Albert Haynesworth was suspended five games for ripping the helmet off of Dallas Cowboys center Andre Gurode and kicking and stomping on his face.

This has the added element of being a hate crime.

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8 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

As I see it, Rudolph reacted to a possible roughing by escalating beyond what the context demanded and was clearly unreasonable.  He clearly wanted Garrett’s helmet off forcibly, instigating a retaliatory response.  That is all on Rudolph so far.  If it stopped there, two ejections, and a. one game suspension for each player is fine, along with a fine for both. Rudolph especially, as the QB, should be smarter than to take on a DE and just let an official call roughing if needed.  Instead he went all dim witted, you get what you get there.  

Garrett should have calmed himself down once the helmet was off, but the hatless village idiot decided to again go in for a shove and got bopped in return.  

Tempers flaring, boys will be boys.  

In my book, Rudolph is gone for a game, Garrett two games, Pouncey is clear. 

You may want to reconsider your position, knowing that you and OJ Simpson are the only two people in America seeing things this way.

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Just now, Prophet Zacharia said:

You may want to reconsider your position, knowing that you and OJ Simpson are the only two people in America seeing things this way.

As attested to by those who have already handed out the punishment for suspended games.

 

RG you are still the moran here.

 

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Just now, Prophet Zacharia said:

It’s a big think up there, I hear.

I can't post what I wanna post because it will get this thread locked.  It's a thin line, that thing trolling is now adays.

Wheels, make this thread a sticky!  It will tick of RG and make this forum 100% more interesting.

Mudkipz

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2 hours ago, Kzoo said:

"Garrett has been suspended without pay indefinitely -- at a minimum of the remainder of the regular season and postseason -- and must meet with the commissioner's office prior to a decision on his reinstatement. He was also fined an additional amount. Garrett violated the unnecessary roughness and unsportsmanlike conduct rules, as well as fighting, removing the helmet of an opponent and using the helmet as a weapon.

"Pouncey has been suspended without pay for one  three game and fined an additional amount for fighting, including punching and kicking an opponent.

"Ogunjobi has been suspended without pay for one game and fined an additional amount for unnecessary roughness, specifically for shoving an opposing player to the ground during an altercation.

"Additional discipline for other players will be forthcoming through the standard accountability process, including those players that left the bend to enter the fight area.

Actually it's worse for Pouncy:

Browns' Myles Garrett suspended indefinitely; Steelers' Maurkice Pouncey gets 3-game ban

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16 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

He didn’t even connect, the dude had his helmet on, and the guy had just tried to literally kill his QB. While I agree it was suspension worthy, I think one game would have been appropriate.

The very first report I saw said Pouncey got one game.  I think that error was a rush to publish.  I think 3 games is appropriate based on others' offenses.  If he'd of just fallen on him and "given him the business" maybe a fine or one game.  They can't let kicking to the head go without a serious punishment.  One game for knocking Rudolph on his butt after the fact was probably excessive but again they have to make a statement.

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I didn't see all of the game, but in the little bit i did see, i counted four hits to the helmet by Cleveland players. Was Garrett also involved in any of them? 

As longtime sad sacks finally (arguably) on the cusp of something good, i think the Browns endeared themselves to a lot of casual fans. I wonder how much of that goodwill last night's performance burned up?  Hell, they're no better than those hooligans a couple hours down I-71.

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3 minutes ago, TrentonMakes said:

I didn't see all of the game, but in the little bit i did see, i counted four hits to the helmet by Cleveland players. Was Garrett also involved in any of them? 

As longtime sad sacks finally (arguably) on the cusp of something good, i think the Browns endeared themselves to a lot of casual fans. I wonder how much of that goodwill last night's performance burned up?  Hell, they're no better than those hooligans a couple hours down I-71.

I am looking forward to seeing them play each other again on 12/1. either a clean game will be played, or it will look like a street fight... don't know, but should be interesting. 

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5 hours ago, jsharr said:

NFL lost control of that game early on

This.

I only saw up to halftime.  (Hard to admit this, but I was watching with some Stillers fans)  It was quite clear we were watch 2 teams who know their seasons are toast so at least they could beat on a rival.  There should have been a couple ejections in the first quarter to get it under control.

Garrett needs to be done for the year.  Maybe a game for the kick.  Otherwise, fines all around.

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I'm fine with Garret getting suspended for this year, and next year. Pouncey should get nothing. The fat guy wearing 65 should get a game for his cheap blind side shot on the QB (as he wasn't trying to cripple the guy). But swinging a helmet at a helmetless guy's head - a measly QB at that - is an act worthy of jealous admiration from Suh and Haynesworth for its brazen criminality.

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7 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

The only thing that would matter to me is if Rudolph swung a helmet at Garrett first. For anything else, this is a grossly inappropriate act, akin to Marty McSorley swinging his hockey stick at Donald Brasher’s head. Possibly because Don wasn’t wearing a poppy? This was McSorley’s last NHL game, IIRC, and he stood trial for assault.

 

McSorley acted criminally.   But that was determined by the severity of injury.  If Garrett has caused significant injury, the league wouldn't be handling the discipline, the courts would. 

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7 minutes ago, Don Cherry said:

McSorley acted criminally.   But that was determined by the severity of injury.  If Garrett has caused significant injury, the league wouldn't be handling the discipline, the courts would. 

I think it is only good fortune that Rudolph isn’t more seriously injured. And the slash doesn’t look as bad today as I remember it did back then, tbh.

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13 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

But you have to admit that Rudolph was colossally stupid, though, right?  Like an idiot, or a mule or somesuch. 

I mean, I wouldn’t run after a large angry man with a weapon, but surely it was an emotional night. Usually these these get snuffed out with a few linemen, which was about to happen.

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Here is an interesting article:

SI Article

Quote

The NFL handed down punishments for the actions of three players involved in the brawl between the Cleveland Browns and Pittsburgh Steelers. Defensive end Myles Garrett received the harshest punishment, getting the rest of the season, if not longer, for swinging a helmet and hitting another player. 

Larry Ogunjobi was suspended one game for his actions, shoving a player down and Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey was suspended three games for punching and kicking in the brawl. Those punishments are perfectly reasonable. The lack of action against Mason Rudolph, the one who started everything that would transpire and escalated the situation is troubling and now raises questions about race.

Garrett, Ogunjobi and Pouncey were all suspended, fairly, for their actions. They also happen to be black. Rudolph, the quarterback who grabbed at Garrett's helmet, kicked him in the groin and then charged him while he was being restrained, received no punishment. Whether coincidence or not, he happens to be white.

It's not a question of over-punishing the three African American players here. It's entirely a question of refusing to hold the one player, who started the entire thing, responsible. And in so doing, it's impossible not to notice his race. 

 

None of this happens if Rudolph doesn't go after Garrett. That doesn't mean that Garrett isn't responsible for his part or that Pouncey and Ogunjobi aren't responsible for theirs, but Rudolph lit the match when he started going after Garrett. He lit the fire when he kicked him in the groin. Then he fanned the flames by chasing after him when Garrett was being restrained by David DeCastro. To this point, he's not being held accountable for any of it.

The NFL holds the right to carry out further action, but their initial statement here is appalling. The video is freely available and quite clear. Rudolph is getting a pass for grabbing another player's helmet, kicking them in the groin and then chasing after them. The NFL is reacting to what happened without bother to getting to the root of the issue.

Rudolph deserves to be suspended multiple games; it seemed reasonable that he'd get at least one. The fact he's not missing any games and will get to play next week while the three other players will all be suspended is absurd on its face. A fine, however massive it might be, will not be enough.. The person who started everything will be going to be out there trying to help his team win while these three will be unable to helps theirs. That leaves an indelible image.

Everything about the events at the end of the game are awful. Awful for the players, the league and the sport itself. Allowing the instigator to go unpunished doesn't discourage further action or send the necessary message. The league, as it so often does, takes something that should be straight forward and makes it far worse. Now, it becomes a discussion about race.

 

Mudkipz

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I don't think there's any question he started.... After he was driven into the ground, taunted, and refused to get up. I don't care who that was, I would have reacted too. Race possibly. More likely a defenseless quarterback getting mauled on the last play of an already decided game. I am quite confident if that was Russell Wilson the same result would have occurred. 

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