So, I won't be judging at debate tournaments anymore.

[MoseySusan]

One of the local coaches took offense to a comment I wrote on a student ballot, filed a complaint with the state board, and they sanctioned me. The coach was seeking to ban me from tournaments for a year, but the board chose the path of clemency taking other factors into consideration. I am no longer allowed to participate as a judge. 

I'm not happy.

Not because I feel justified in writing the comment; I own that it was of limited benefit to the student overall. But entirely because that student is being coached to express herself in a way I find offensive to the activity. My comment could have no effect in that environment. Usually, coaches read through ballots first, then throw away any that lack educational value before students see them. I'm not sure why the coach even let the student see the ballot if she had taken offense to it. 

I'm not happy because this is yet another moment of "We don't accept your kind, here." I'm exhausted by this lifelong struggle to define myself as someone worthwhile, who has much to contribute, instead of someone who, according to my dad, "will always be white trash." He refused to support my desire to go to college. That was beyond my raisin'. 

This situation feels a lot like "You don't belong here" because the members of the board agreed to sanction me instead of to remind the offended coach, "We usually just throw away ballots like that, and then talk to the judge/coach about it." 

Thanks for listening.    

[petitepedal ★]

Sorry you were treated that way ?

[maddmaxx ★]

Is there a defined period to that ban or is it forever?

[shootingstar]

I'm sorry to hear since you seem to be interested and dedicated to helping students long-term to think more critically and debate well through better self-expression.

 

[MoseySusan]

32 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Is there a defined period to that ban or is it forever?

It’s for the remainder of the year. But as I’m retiring this year, it’s how I’m exiting the activity. 

[MoseySusan]

32 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I'm sorry to hear since you seem to be interested and dedicated to helping students long-term to think more critically and debate well through better self-expression.

 

The other coach is win at any cost, even if it means emotionally manipulating your audience. I cannot stomach that extreme pathos is becoming the winning strategy. It’s probably best I leave.

[The_Karen_Cooper_Incident]

Well, we find you worthwhile.  Personally, I have always appreciated your point of view as it has nurtured critical thinking over the years I have known you. 

Mudkipz 

[shootingstar]

17 minutes ago, roadsue said:

The other coach is win at any cost, even if it means emotionally manipulating your audience. I cannot stomach that extreme pathos is becoming the winning strategy. It’s probably best I leave.

Appreciate what you mean.  There's a way of presenting facts without stooping too much.

On topic, I've always believed in the dept. we could market our services better and raise the level of awareness to the organization, by learning how to tell short effective stories how information....is valuable to business..and ultimately to citizens, whom we serve,  by being just abit flashier, big picture oriented rather sounding like work drones.  This is not about debating but how to communicate better at certain times..a form of persuasion which is what winning a debate is.

[donkpow]

You shouldn't allow yourself to associate this incident with your personal background. Stepping into any arena opens you to unwarranted attentions. Evaluate your behavior within these confines and judge yourself by your own values. 

[Randomguy]

People are horrible. At least you can have more free time, though.

[Wilbur ★]

Odd that a debate judge's position is ended in such a manner.  We have gotten into a nasty habit of eliminating voices we don't like rather than discussing issues.   Sorry you are going out that way.  It isn't right and is lacking the respect you deserve. 

[The_Karen_Cooper_Incident]

You could always be a debate judge for the Steelers / Browns thread. 

Mudkipz 

[Ralphie ★]

1 hour ago, Couch_Incident said:

Well, we find you worthwhile.  Personally, I have always appreciated your point of view as it has nurtured critical thinking over the years I have known you. 

Mudkipz 

Couch, you have totally redeemed yourself with this post.  The forum shirley recognizes the awesomeness that is roadsue. :)

 

[Kzoo]

7 minutes ago, Couch_Incident said:

You could always be a debate judge for the Steelers / Browns thread. 

Mudkipz 

no

[MoseySusan]

2 hours ago, Don Cherry said:

Odd that a debate judge's position is ended in such a manner.  We have gotten into a nasty habit of eliminating voices we don't like rather than discussing issues.   Sorry you are going out that way.  It isn't right and is lacking the respect you deserve. 

Score one more for cancel culture. 

[MoseySusan]

2 hours ago, donkpow said:

You shouldn't allow yourself to associate this incident with your personal background. Stepping into any arena opens you to unwarranted attentions. Evaluate your behavior within these confines and judge yourself by your own values. 

I appreciate the advice. My sadness comes from exhaustion, battling against the voice that says I shouldn’t be here. 

[MoseySusan]

1 hour ago, Kzoo said:

no

Now, how can I resist?

[Kirby]

I'm sorry that your efforts to help kids ended up with unpleasantness. I'd be annoyed at the Board and their nonsense. Frankly, I wouldn't want to do anything that involved dealing with them again, but you're nicer than I am.  I'm also sorry that you're still hearing that voice from your childhood.  As others have already mentioned, the other people in your life (including us at the Forum) can see how kind, smart and caring you are and can clearly see how special you are.  But I recognize sometimes  people can be harder on themselves than they are on other people.

The Board sounds like a bunch of petty administrators carried away with their own importance and eager to appease the coaches so that nobody bothers them.  Good riddance to them!

[maddmaxx ★]

9 hours ago, roadsue said:

The other coach is win at any cost, even if it means emotionally manipulating your audience. I cannot stomach that extreme pathos is becoming the winning strategy. It’s probably best I leave.

You are witnessing modern life impinging on you debate contests.  We are becoming an entire nation of win at all costs.  The civility train has left the station.

[donkpow]

Students can receive an effective lesson when the cost to the teacher is higher than usual. You could have hope that the student has received a life lesson in this case.

[Wilbur ★]

2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

We are becoming an entire nation of win at all costs.

The US isn't alone in that.  Sorry, it is traditional western culture. 

[donkpow]

22 minutes ago, Don Cherry said:

The US isn't alone in that.  Sorry, it is traditional western culture. 

It's the manifest destiny.

[MoseySusan]

1 hour ago, donkpow said:

Students can receive an effective lesson when the cost to the teacher is higher than usual. You could have hope that the student has received a life lesson in this case.

This team bullies. I’ve watched them fabricate evidence, support their case with satire because a community judge wouldn’t know the difference, contradict themselves, and intimidate others. The primary lesson for the student is that wealth and privilege is well protected, and they can say anything in their speech even if it’s abusive to the audience. 

[maddmaxx ★]

29 minutes ago, Don Cherry said:

The US isn't alone in that.  Sorry, it is traditional western culture. 

Although it should have been obvious earlier, I began to realize this when parents began assaulting my young referee students following 6 year old no score games in youth soccer saturday morning fun time.  When womaxx and I had to go to all those games to provide some backup and protection for the budding young referees it was too much for her and she quit.  I simply became a "stop the game and don't restart until the fans get it under control" sort of referee for the younger player games.  One of the lessons was that I could not referee in the town in which I lived.  

[donkpow]

1 hour ago, roadsue said:

This team bullies. I’ve watched them fabricate evidence, support their case with satire because a community judge wouldn’t know the difference, contradict themselves, and intimidate others. The primary lesson for the student is that wealth and privilege is well protected, and they can say anything in their speech even if it’s abusive to the audience. 

In that case, I know a guy who knows a guy ...

[Road Runner]

13 hours ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

The forum shirley recognizes the awesomeness that is roadsue.

She has the best avatar on the internet.  

[MoseySusan]

Here’s the update. mr. has convinced me to write an open letter of protest to several factors related to this event and share it with every coach in the district. He saw immediately that the board is protecting the personal preferences of a single individual instead of providing an inclusive activity for students.

I’m not leaving this activity with my little tail between my legs. I’m leaving it in protest. 

[Wilbur ★]

Are you the type that likes to get the last word?  If so, have I got a thread for you.

[Kzoo]

8 minutes ago, Don Cherry said:

Are you the type that likes to get the last word?  If so, have I got a thread for you.

Yes.  Oh wait, you were talking to RS.

 

I agree with Mr. Road.  You are more articulate than most and more convincing than many.  I say go out with both barrels blazing. 
 

It’s for the children.

[Wilbur ★]

2 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

Yes.  Oh wait, you were talking to RS.

 

I agree with Mr. Road.  You are more articulate than most and more convincing than many.  I say go out with both barrels blazing. 
 

It’s for the children.

I have never found many post-decision battles to be all that effective at righting a perceived wrong.   It gets it off your chest though, and that can be worth the effort. 

[JerrySTL ★]

17 hours ago, roadsue said:

I'm not happy because this is yet another moment of "We don't accept your kind, here." I'm exhausted by this lifelong struggle to define myself as someone worthwhile, who has much to contribute, instead of someone who, according to my dad, "will always be white trash." He refused to support my desire to go to college. That was beyond my raisin'. 

Sounds like your dad was as ass. Obviously you have prove him wrong. 

One of the most liberating things that I have done was stop worrying about what most people think of me and being happy knowing that a pretty good JerrySTL. Of course there's room for improvement as I'm not perfect. You should give it a try.

[MoseySusan]

1 hour ago, Kzoo said:

Yes.  Oh wait, you were talking to RS.

 

I agree with Mr. Road.  You are more articulate than most and more convincing than many.  I say go out with both barrels blazing. 
 

It’s for the children.

In our climate of school shootings, I’ll choose a different idiom. 

[MoseySusan]

23 minutes ago, JerrySTL said:

Sounds like your dad was as ass. Obviously you have prove him wrong. 

My dad is a middle-school dropout whose own father used him as a whipping boy. He’s not versed in encouraging messages. But he provided for his family, against the odds his own parenting gave him. 

[MoseySusan]

1 hour ago, Don Cherry said:

I have never found many post-decision battles to be all that effective at righting a perceived wrong.   It gets it off your chest though, and that can be worth the effort. 

I agree. My peace with this issue requires that my students know I brought the issue to the attention of the people who are ostensibly looking out for them. 

[Road Runner]

2 hours ago, Kzoo said:

I agree with Mr. Road.

I believe the correct forum terminology is Mr. Sue or HoS.  HoS is preferred as it has a certain humorous ring to it.   

[Kzoo]

20 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

I believe the correct forum terminology is Mr. Sue or HoS.  HoS is preferred as it has a certain humorous ring to it.   

no

[Kzoo]

53 minutes ago, roadsue said:

In our climate of school shootings, I’ll choose a different idiom. 

Understood.  But since idiom isn’t in my vocabulary you can say it any way you want.

#chewemupandspitemout

[Road Runner]

1 minute ago, Kzoo said:

no

Don't make me rip your helmet off and hit you in the head with it.   

[Kzoo]

Just now, Road Runner said:

Don't make me rip your helmet off and hit you in the head with it.   

Don’t make me kick you in the nads.

[donkpow]

Can't we all just get along ...

So I can be in charge?

[Kzoo]

Just now, donkpow said:

Can't we all just get along ...

So I can be in charge?

no

[donkpow]

1 minute ago, Kzoo said:

no

Listen you little nad kicker, I am a force to be reckoned with.

[Kzoo]

Just now, donkpow said:

Listen you little nad kicker, I am a force to be reckoned with.

Pfffft.

You got be shak’n in my boots.

Actually my boots are outside.

[KrAzY]

I am sorry this has happened to you. Give us the email or address of the dirtbag, and we can sign him up for a bunch of free internet items. He can have the gift of crap all year round. 

[Road Runner]

2 minutes ago, donkpow said:

Listen you little nad kicker, I am a force to be reckoned with.

My nads are not little.  

[Kzoo]

Just now, Road Runner said:

My nads are not little.  

Maybe that needed another comma or something.  Where’s our grammar peep?

#letseatgrandma

[MickinMD ★]

19 hours ago, roadsue said:

One of the local coaches took offense to a comment I wrote on a student ballot, filed a complaint with the state board, and they sanctioned me. The coach was seeking to ban me from tournaments for a year, but the board chose the path of clemency taking other factors into consideration. I am no longer allowed to participate as a judge. 

I'm not happy.

Not because I feel justified in writing the comment; I own that it was of limited benefit to the student overall. But entirely because that student is being coached to express herself in a way I find offensive to the activity. My comment could have no effect in that environment. Usually, coaches read through ballots first, then throw away any that lack educational value before students see them. I'm not sure why the coach even let the student see the ballot if she had taken offense to it. 

I'm not happy because this is yet another moment of "We don't accept your kind, here." I'm exhausted by this lifelong struggle to define myself as someone worthwhile, who has much to contribute, instead of someone who, according to my dad, "will always be white trash." He refused to support my desire to go to college. That was beyond my raisin'. 

This situation feels a lot like "You don't belong here" because the members of the board agreed to sanction me instead of to remind the offended coach, "We usually just throw away ballots like that, and then talk to the judge/coach about it." 

Thanks for listening.    

As a retired teacher who, over 3 decades, had to deal with politically correct people who would accept no politically incorrect arguments and ridiculous policies I had to publicly support, I feel for you.

[Wilbur ★]

30 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

My nads are not little.  

Okay, enough low hanging fruit talk.. 

[MoseySusan]

Besides, husband of roadsue is not HoS. 

Wait for it...

 

[Kzoo]

Waiting