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So let's say you are flying along ....


donkpow

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17 minutes ago, donkpow said:

... and some other plane is coming right for you head on. What's the rule on that?

I was in a UH1 in the 2nd crew chief spot so had head phones on.  We were on approach at Dover and we could see a C5 off in the distance approaching in the opposite direction on the same runway. 

ATC gave us clearance to land but  the pilot said, Uh you sure were clear?  Confirm UH1 clear. Uh, we can put this down anywhere.. UH1 clear for approach.... We then see the C5 bank hard and pull up & off while we cruised in for landing.  

Seemed kinda odd to force the huge cargo plan yeild way to a helo so I’d say the bigger plane moves, the smaller one stays the course.

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10 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I was in a UH1 in the 2nd crew chief spot so had head phones on.  We were on approach at Dover and we could see a C5 off in the distance approaching in the opposite direction on the same runway. 

ATC gave us clearance to land but  the pilot said, Uh you sure were clear?  Confirm UH1 clear. Uh, we can put this down anywhere.. UH1 clear for approach.... We then see the C5 bank hard and pull up & off while we cruised in for landing.  

Seemed kinda odd to force the huge cargo plan yeild way to a helo so I’d say the bigger plane moves, the smaller one stays the course.

The aircraft being overtaken has the right of way in that instance. 

Not many controllers will deviate from their MANOPS. 

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2 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

The aircraft being overtaken has the right of way in that instance. 

Not many controllers will deviate from their MANOPS. 

I don’t know what overtaken means in pilot talk but I figured the C5 wasn’t given proper authorization so they made him yield to us.

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8 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

You are an A&P aren't you Jerry?  What is your take? 

I was P&W engine test and I've been a bit worried at the tendency for engines to throw parts at the plane lately.  Our designers said it was job one to ensure that an engine explosion was contained within the nacele.  I've been present for a 19 bird test and while the fan was severely damaged, it did not come apart.  It's not entirely clear to me yet however if this is a design flaw (although the NTSB has recommended a redesign) or a maintenance flaw.

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22 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

I was P&W engine test and I've been a bit worried at the tendency for engines to throw parts at the plane lately.  Our designers said it was job one to ensure that an engine explosion was contained within the nacele.  I've been present for a 19 bird test and while the fan was severely damaged, it did not come apart.  It's not entirely clear to me yet however if this is a design flaw (although the NTSB has recommended a redesign) or a maintenance flaw.

A good friend of mine did that at PWC Toronto. 

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1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

You are an A&P aren't you Jerry?  What is your take? 

I never got my A&P as the USAF didn't require it. I do keep up with the aircraft industry and safety. My current job deals directly with civilian airline and aircraft safety used to move military people and equipment. 

I've read a lot about the 737 Max issue. Seems to me that Boeing made a number of major changes to the 737 Max including much larger engines which messed with the weight and balance some. To keep costs down for the airlines, they passed off the Max as a minor upgrade to avoid a major rectification plus added training for the aircrews to qualify for that aircraft. Ironically if there had been more training, they may have not crashed.

MCAS was also downplayed so much that there was little literature about it in the manuals. What seems very crazy to me is that a system which would basically take control from the pilot didn't have any redundancy. All the aircraft that I worked on had two separate pitot static systems for judging airspeed and altitude. You could crosscheck these system and if they differed, then you knew at least one of then was wrong. In the Max's case, there was no redundancy as it worked off just one set of pitot static sensors. If it wasn't working properly, there wasn't much it could do to crosscheck itself. Boeing made a major mistake doing this. From what I gather, Boeing has things so compartmentalized that few people knew how the system was to work from start to finish. Some engineers were shocked to find out how there work was used in designing MCAS.

IMHO Boeing is a mess. Between the 737 Max and the KC-46 tanker issues, it's made some major errors. I'm glad that I don't have any Boeing stock.

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The major manufacturers based in the US are left alone during most of the certification these days.  I think it will be determined the failures are that of internal oversight at Boeing and FAA oversight of Boeing.  I have done the MCAS training module online and it is really a poorly covered topic with no definitive actions.  The Airbus I flew all had triple redundancy in the Alpha Protection System.  I am sure that redundancy has save the day many times. 

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2 hours ago, Wilbur said:

A good friend of mine did that at PWC Toronto. 

He can probably tell this same funny in some variation.

At the Wilgoose test facility we fired birds from a bird cannon into running jet engines attached to a large outdoor gantry.  It was the junior engineers job to take care of the birds, usually turkeys or chickens bought at a local grocery store and kept on site.  One day after all the pomp and circumstance was complete and the engine was up and running the engineer in charge pushed the button to fire the cannon and the engine literally blew up.  When everyone came out from under whatever they were hiding under the senior engineer looked at the junior engineer and calmly asked.........did you thaw out the fucking turkey?  There was silence?

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1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

He can probably tell this same funny in some variation.

At the Wilgoose test facility we fired birds from a bird cannon into running jet engines attached to a large outdoor gantry.  It was the junior engineers job to take care of the birds, usually turkeys or chickens bought at a local grocery store and kept on site.  One day after all the pomp and circumstance was complete and the engine was up and running the engineer in charge pushed the button to fire the cannon and the engine literally blew up.  When everyone came out from under whatever they were hiding under the senior engineer looked at the junior engineer and calmly asked.........did you thaw out the fucking turkey?  There was silence?

Well at least you now know what would happen if the engine was flying through a storm with turkey-sized hail stones.

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2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

He can probably tell this same funny in some variation.

At the Wilgoose test facility we fired birds from a bird cannon into running jet engines attached to a large outdoor gantry.  It was the junior engineers job to take care of the birds, usually turkeys or chickens bought at a local grocery store and kept on site.  One day after all the pomp and circumstance was complete and the engine was up and running the engineer in charge pushed the button to fire the cannon and the engine literally blew up.  When everyone came out from under whatever they were hiding under the senior engineer looked at the junior engineer and calmly asked.........did you thaw out the fucking turkey?  There was silence?

Junior engineer response: As God is my witness....

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  • 2 months later...

Soon but they are still squabbling about crew training syllabus.  There have been significant changes to the MCAS software.  Three layers of protection and failure detection, procedural changes in failure events and greater oversight of Boeing. I expect full approval by July.  

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