late Posted January 12, 2020 Share #1 Posted January 12, 2020 The snob brands are making ebikes now. Pinarello just came out with their first, it's going to be about $9K here. Not sure it will sell here because the boost cuts out at 20mph. You can get a great ebike for half that that cuts out at about 27. That'd help in a sprint. That's not the big news, there's a decent Brit ebike for a 1,000 pounds now, the Carerra Crossroad. The list on my bike is 3 times that. So you'll see something similar here, sooner or later. One thing both bikes have in common is rear hub motors. I thought crankcase motors would dominate, but maybe not. I'm seeing a lot of new ebikes with motors in the rear wheel. Skip over the beginning, it's just yak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen ★ Posted January 12, 2020 Share #2 Posted January 12, 2020 I liked my crankcase motor on my Panasonic. I mated it to a CVT rear hub. It was a great bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted January 13, 2020 Share #3 Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, late said: The snob brands are making ebikes now. Pinarello just came out with their first, it's going to be about $9K here. Not sure it will sell here because the boost cuts out at 20mph. You can get a great ebike for half that that cuts out at about 27. That'd help in a sprint. That's not the big news, there's a decent Brit ebike for a 1,000 pounds now, the Carerra Crossroad. The list on my bike is 3 times that. So you'll see something similar here, sooner or later. One thing both bikes have in common is rear hub motors. I thought crankcase motors would dominate, but maybe not. I'm seeing a lot of new ebikes with motors in the rear wheel. Skip over the beginning, it's just yak. Well...for that brand and type of money, maybe the buyer is ...after the brand???? Seems like an oxymoron for a brand that gives the impression of uber fit cycling enthusiasts but it's electric. I've always wondered about that brand...for those who have enough coin or just love bikes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted January 13, 2020 Share #4 Posted January 13, 2020 18 hours ago, late said: The snob brands are making ebikes now. Pinarello just came out with their first, it's going to be about $9K here. Not sure it will sell here because the boost cuts out at 20mph. You can get a great ebike for half that that cuts out at about 27. That'd help in a sprint. That's not the big news, there's a decent Brit ebike for a 1,000 pounds now, the Carerra Crossroad. The list on my bike is 3 times that. So you'll see something similar here, sooner or later. One thing both bikes have in common is rear hub motors. I thought crankcase motors would dominate, but maybe not. I'm seeing a lot of new ebikes with motors in the rear wheel. Skip over the beginning, it's just yak. That video is from 2017. Hardly new by e-bike standards. The bike was first released in 2017 as a 2018 model. Do you understand the difference that the "snob" brands offer over the cheaper non-snob brands? The Orbea Gain weighs 25 lbs. What does your non-snob brand weigh? Can you actually ride it without the assist? You can with a 25 lb bike. Have you ever ridden one of these "snob" bikes or is your judgement based on ignorance? Yes, the assist cuts out at 20 mph and it does have a motor in the hub. The battery is in the down tube. Nice looking bikes I'd say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 13, 2020 Share #5 Posted January 13, 2020 18 hours ago, late said: The snob brands are making ebikes now. Pinarello just came out with their first, it's going to be about $9K here. Good to know a 65 year old bicycle company is "snobbish". I guess the "People's Bikes" from Walmart are where real folks should look for good stuff. 18 hours ago, late said: One thing both bikes have in common is rear hub motors. And Dennis has been writing about the Gain (see his post) for a couple years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share #6 Posted January 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Good to know a 65 year old bicycle company is "snobbish". I guess the "People's Bikes" from Walmart are where real folks should look for good stuff. And Dennis has been writing about the Gain (see his post) for a couple years now. Sigh. You didn't have an argument that wasn't laughable trying to say Pinarello wasn't part of the Road Snob community, so you dived for Walmart. My favorite bike is a Gunnar, same guys that make Waterford. The current price of my Sport for frame and fork is $1450. Not Walmart, but also not Snob approved.... Years ago I did several arguments on BF about tire size. I pointed out larger tires made more sense for most people, most of the time. Now even pros are running larger tires... The physics is pretty simple, but being Roadie is a religion... I wrote about that Pinarello mostly because it's about $9K, and I think it will have less appeal than some other e-bikes that are about half the price and faster. Part of the subtext is something I try to bring up regularly (and brought up again in that post), is that the tech is evolving. I think getting more people cycling is what we need to get the political clout to get badly needed improvements in cycling infrastructure. E-bikes are doing that in Europe, they ought to be doing it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 13, 2020 Share #7 Posted January 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, late said: Sigh. You didn't have an argument that wasn't laughable trying to say Pinarello wasn't part of the Road Snob community, so you dived for Walmart. My favorite bike is a Gunnar, same guys that make Waterford. The current price of my Sport for frame and fork is $1450. Not Walmart, but also not Snob approved.... Years ago I did several arguments on BF about tire size. I pointed out larger tires made more sense for most people, most of the time. Now even pros are running larger tires... The physics is pretty simple, but being Roadie is a religion... I wrote about that Pinarello mostly because it's about $9K, and I think it will have less appeal than some other e-bikes that are about half the price and faster. Part of the subtext is something I try to bring up regularly (and brought up again in that post), is that the tech is evolving. I think getting more people cycling is what we need to get the political clout to get badly needed improvements in cycling infrastructure. E-bikes are doing that in Europe, they ought to be doing it here. A $9,000 snob bike ridden 100 times a year is better than a $1,450 non-snob bike ridden fewer times a year. I don't let the "brand" or "cost" define the bike, I let the specific bike's actual time of use do that. Buy what works for you, but don't look down on the "snob" bike that you see while out riding, but instead maybe appreciate that they are actually out riding. An unridden bike is always dopier than a ridden bike. But trickle down is real, and that $9k bike makes way to the $5k bike to the $1k bike to the Walmart bike. Keep in mind, the Walmart bike was a bit of a joke here as they now sell the $5k+ bikes. We have lots of e-bike discussions here, and it's a pretty interesting discussion on many different fronts (as is the bike tire width one ). I just don't like chucking out the "snob" insult since it has really little relevance in the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share #8 Posted January 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: I just don't like chucking out the "snob" insult since it has really little relevance in the discussion. You dived for Walmart... The snobbery has a lot of relevance, and it ain't subtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 13, 2020 Share #9 Posted January 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, late said: You dived for Walmart... Feel free to buy one of their ebikes and laugh at the idiots on their snob bikes. Not sure why it is diving. I guess it's sort of the same as tossing out a $9k bike as snobbish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Razors Edge said: Feel free to buy one of their ebikes and laugh at the idiots on their snob bikes. Not sure why it is diving. I already have an ebike. Roadie religion does tire one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 13, 2020 Share #11 Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, late said: I already have an ebike. Roadie religion does tire one... What's roadie religion? Is it the idea that riding is a good thing? How long have you had your e-bike? What did you pay for it? How miles have you logged or how many hours in the saddle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted January 13, 2020 Share #12 Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, late said: Sigh. You didn't have an argument that wasn't laughable trying to say Pinarello wasn't part of the Road Snob community, so you dived for Walmart. My favorite bike is a Gunnar, same guys that make Waterford. The current price of my Sport for frame and fork is $1450. Not Walmart, but also not Snob approved.... Years ago I did several arguments on BF about tire size. I pointed out larger tires made more sense for most people, most of the time. Now even pros are running larger tires... The physics is pretty simple, but being Roadie is a religion... I wrote about that Pinarello mostly because it's about $9K, and I think it will have less appeal than some other e-bikes that are about half the price and faster. Part of the subtext is something I try to bring up regularly (and brought up again in that post), is that the tech is evolving. I think getting more people cycling is what we need to get the political clout to get badly needed improvements in cycling infrastructure. E-bikes are doing that in Europe, they ought to be doing it here. Felt makes a $14k road bike. Does that put them in the snob category? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 13, 2020 Share #13 Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, dennis said: Felt makes a $14k road bike. Does that put them in the snob category? Or an $11k MTB. And you get your choice of super-powered or human-powered! Trek is definitely known as a snobby brand and they feed the roadie religion with $11k mountain bikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, dennis said: Felt makes a $14k road bike. Does that put them in the snob category? The snobbery, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share #15 Posted January 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Razors Edge said: What's roadie religion? Is it the idea that riding is a good thing? How long have you had your e-bike? What did you pay for it? How miles have you logged or how many hours in the saddle? I think I can answer your question succinctly. I took my Sport to Italy, where I rode from the Adriatic to the Med with Ciclismo Classico. https://ciclismoclassico.com/tours/bike-across-italy/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 13, 2020 Share #16 Posted January 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, late said: I think I can answer your question succinctly. I took my Sport to Italy, where I rode from the Adriatic to the Med with Ciclismo Classico. https://ciclismoclassico.com/tours/bike-across-italy/ You have 346 miles or ~20 hours in the saddle? That seems like a steep cost per mile (or per hour ridden). Check back with us after 10,000 miles or so. I will appreciate your review of the Sport and what you loved vs what you would change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share #17 Posted January 13, 2020 36 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: You have 346 miles or ~20 hours in the saddle? That seems like a steep cost per mile (or per hour ridden). Check back with us after 10,000 miles or so. I will appreciate your review of the Sport and what you loved vs what you would change. I did my first bike trip in 1973. I went to New Hamster, and spent the weekend at a Battle of the Bands. The music was dreadful, but the ride was epic. I've had the Sport for over a decade. I've ridden it from here to Acadia, around Lake Champlain, a week long trip in New Hamster, and a tour of Maine's lake country, and more. I've used it for commuting yard saleing, grocery getting and more. Before the Sport I had a titanium bike. I have a custom I call Long Ride, but I was diagnosed with cancer a few months after I got it. One of our regular trips I suggest others try. You can go either way, we usually started in Portland, went to Brunswick where we'd have lunch, and then stay at the Driftwood Inn on Baileys Island. The next day we'd take the ferry back to Portland. Are with done with stupid now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 14, 2020 Share #18 Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, late said: Are with done with stupid now? So the Sport has been ridden enough, perhaps not 10,000 miles, to justify the cost? If so, sure we can move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted January 14, 2020 Share #19 Posted January 14, 2020 5 hours ago, late said: The snobbery, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars.. Well played Capt. Pretentious. Do you understand the difference that the "snob" brands offer over the cheaper non-snob brands? The Orbea Gain weighs 25 lbs. What does your non-snob brand weigh? Can you actually ride it without the assist? You can with a 25 lb bike. Have you ever ridden one of these "snob" bikes or is your judgement based on ignorance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share #20 Posted January 14, 2020 7 hours ago, Razors Edge said: So the Sport has been ridden enough, perhaps not 10,000 miles, to justify the cost? If so, sure we can move on. Somehow I doubt that. But feel free to prove me wrong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share #21 Posted January 14, 2020 4 hours ago, dennis said: Well played Capt. Pretentious. Do you understand the difference that the "snob" brands offer over the cheaper non-snob brands? The Orbea Gain weighs 25 lbs. What does your non-snob brand weigh? Can you actually ride it without the assist? You can with a 25 lb bike. Have you ever ridden one of these "snob" bikes or is your judgement based on ignorance? Tender spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted January 14, 2020 Share #22 Posted January 14, 2020 5 hours ago, late said: Tender spot? Not for me. I was curious if you could answer those questions. You didn't so I guess your judgement is based on ignorance, not personal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share #23 Posted January 14, 2020 2 hours ago, dennis said: Not for me. I was curious if you could answer those questions. You didn't so I guess your judgement is based on ignorance, not personal experience. I thought you were being snarky. Since then I watched some of your videos. My Cannondale and Ti bike were both about 20 pounds. For someone like me, which is to say a rec rider that likes long rides, my Sport is mind blowingly good. It changed my life. I like trying bikes, do you remember the XO1 and RB1? They both had tubing designed for bicycles, and for that era, were something really special. All of which is beside the point, to be honest. If you spend some time in europe, you will see tons of people on bikes. Very, very few will be wearing lycra. Mostly they have cheap bikes and just want a leisurely ride to work or a store. I knew that, but it didn't really sink in until I had a flat in Italy. I used to run 28s, and they didn't have any. They had a lot of cheap larger tires, some nice 23s, and one lone 25. Which I got. There are a lot of impediments to improving cycling infrastructure, I see Roadie guys as being one of them. I also find it quite interesting that everyone is trying to put me on the defensive. https://www.roadbikereview.com/product/frames-and-forks/frames/gunnar/sport.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 14, 2020 Share #24 Posted January 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, late said: If you spend some time in europe, you will see tons of people on bikes. Very, very few will be wearing lycra. Mostly they have cheap bikes and just want a leisurely ride to work or a store. I knew that, but it didn't really sink in until I had a flat in Italy. I used to run 28s, and they didn't have any. They had a lot of cheap larger tires, some nice 23s, and one lone 25. Which I got. There are a lot of impediments to improving cycling infrastructure, I see Roadie guys as being one of them. I also find it quite interesting that everyone is trying to put me on the defensive. Ah, the snobbish anti-snob! I like it Sure, I NEVER see folks in lycra riding in Europe You do realize, folks ride different bikes for different things. I can't say I've ever seen a downhill bike like @Dirtyhip's cruising through downtown DC or Seattle or Paris or Rome. Tons of hybrids and city bikes, but none of those wild Spec Demos or Trek Sessions Is, therefore, a downhill bike either snobbish and/or maybe the impediment to cycling infrastructure??? Hell, same with @dennis's beloved Fat Bikes! I rarely see them rolling around town. It's gotta be them holding us back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share #25 Posted January 14, 2020 43 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Ah, the snobbish anti-snob! I like it Sure, I NEVER see folks in lycra riding in Europe You do realize, folks ride different bikes for different things. I can't say I've ever seen a downhill bike like @Dirtyhip's cruising through downtown DC or Seattle or Paris or Rome. Tons of hybrids and city bikes, but none of those wild Spec Demos or Trek Sessions Is, therefore, a downhill bike either snobbish and/or maybe the impediment to cycling infrastructure??? Hell, same with @dennis's beloved Fat Bikes! I rarely see them rolling around town. It's gotta be them holding us back! As predicted, not that it was hard to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 14, 2020 Share #26 Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, late said: As predicted, not that it was hard to do. I'm just still wondering what an ebike from Pinarello has to do with snobs, "roadie religion", impediments to cycling infrastructure, lycra-clad cyclists, a trip across Italy, and a steel road bike. It's mind boggling, other than as a weird and outdated swipe at folks who ride bikes priced more than your chosen cost (apparently $1,500 is the magic number). I don't see why you don't get it, but maybe it's just three folks talking past each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share #27 Posted January 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: I don't see why you don't get it, but maybe it's just three folks talking past each other. Indeed. My last 3 bikes were all more than that. The frame on Long Ride was over 2500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 14, 2020 Share #28 Posted January 14, 2020 1 minute ago, late said: Indeed. My last 3 bikes were all more than that. The frame on Long Ride was over 2500. So you are the snob? Why are you self-hating about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted January 15, 2020 Share #29 Posted January 15, 2020 8 hours ago, late said: I thought you were being snarky. Since then I watched some of your videos. My Cannondale and Ti bike were both about 20 pounds. For someone like me, which is to say a rec rider that likes long rides, my Sport is mind blowingly good. It changed my life. I like trying bikes, do you remember the XO1 and RB1? They both had tubing designed for bicycles, and for that era, were something really special. All of which is beside the point, to be honest. If you spend some time in europe, you will see tons of people on bikes. Very, very few will be wearing lycra. Mostly they have cheap bikes and just want a leisurely ride to work or a store. I knew that, but it didn't really sink in until I had a flat in Italy. I used to run 28s, and they didn't have any. They had a lot of cheap larger tires, some nice 23s, and one lone 25. Which I got. There are a lot of impediments to improving cycling infrastructure, I see Roadie guys as being one of them. I also find it quite interesting that everyone is trying to put me on the defensive. https://www.roadbikereview.com/product/frames-and-forks/frames/gunnar/sport.html I didn't realize I had videos. Do I look good? I am a Handsome Devil. I'm not sure what any of your answers have to do with e-bikes. They say the third time is a charm. Do you understand the difference that the "snob" brands offer over the cheaper non-snob brands? The Orbea Gain weighs 25 lbs. What does your non-snob brand weigh? Can you actually ride it without the assist? You can with a 25 lb bike. Have you ever ridden one of these "snob" bikes or is your judgement based on ignorance? Yes, I am familiar with the Bridgestone line of bikes, but again, I am not sure what that has to do with e-bikes. Having a discussion with you is like explaining philosophy to an ape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
late Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share #30 Posted January 15, 2020 18 minutes ago, dennis said: Having a discussion with you is like explaining philosophy to an ape I know the feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted January 15, 2020 Share #31 Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, late said: I know the feeling. You still can't answer questions. You are a piece of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheep_herder ★ Posted January 15, 2020 Share #32 Posted January 15, 2020 37 minutes ago, dennis said: You still can't answer questions. You are a piece of work. You are persistent, as I would have given up on him long ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted January 15, 2020 Share #33 Posted January 15, 2020 9 hours ago, sheep_herder said: You are persistent, as I would have given up on him long ago. Thank you wise one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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