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Best way to do a European vacation?


petitepedal

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You need to answer some questions.

List the order of importance of your goals. Do you want a the louvre, architecture, fine dining, romance, experiences like Oktoberfest?

There is always a quantity versus quality equation. You could do a bike tour, or take the train from Italy to Norway. You could also focus on 2 to 4 countries. One option would be to fly into Vienna, get over jet lag there. Then take the night train to Paris, and after a couple days go on to London, and fly out of there. I can, and have, designed a hundred european vacations. You could spend a year there and still miss tons.

Do you want to experience things for yourself, or join a tour (there's lots and lots of different types of tours. I can warmly suggest Ciclismo Classico)

Some pieces of advice, first, forget boats. There are a bunch of Youtube videos on river cruises. Or just skip them.

 

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47 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Will you fit in my carry on? I'm going in April. 3 weeks. First put Google flights tracking on speed dial. Fly into a gateway. London Paris Amsterdam Frankfurt.  Then use rail to get around. Best rail source is maninseat61.com. Then find your hotel bnb or hostel

 

Easy peasy

:desk: I'm in..I am not keen on traveling Europe solo.

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31 minutes ago, petitepedal said:

:desk: I'm in..I am not keen on traveling Europe solo.

Meet me in Paris!

$551 Chicago to Paris RT

$646 MSP- Paris RT

my first time in 30 years traveling solo. I have a 6 day tour of Paris with Rick Steves. A few days in Dijon (thanks @shootingstar) wine tasting and cafe lounging. Then back to Paris for more Bistro exploration

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7 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Meet me in Paris!

$551 Chicago to Paris RT

$646 MSP- Paris RT

my first time in 30 years traveling solo. I have a 6 day tour of Paris with Rick Steves. A few days in Dijon (thanks @shootingstar) wine tasting and cafe lounging. Then back to Paris for more Bistro exploration

We watch Rick Steves all the time.  I am jealous - sounds like a great trip.

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9 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Meet me in Paris!

$551 Chicago to Paris RT

$646 MSP- Paris RT

my first time in 30 years traveling solo. I have a 6 day tour of Paris with Rick Steves. A few days in Dijon (thanks @shootingstar) wine tasting and cafe lounging. Then back to Paris for more Bistro exploration

I've done a fair amount of solo travel.  Looking forward to a solo trip this fall. Might do another birdwatching trip  I've really enjoyed it. There's some awkward moments where being solo sticks out, but all in all the pros outweigh the cons.  Have a great time,

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3 hours ago, petitepedal said:

Best way to do a European vacation?

Any suggestions on the best way to go for an inexperienced traveler?  Yeah...I am thinking about it...Have some $$ put aside,but not a lot...

I have a bazillion suggestions and tips and recommendations, but it makes no sense to just throw out all sorts of random "answers" without knowing the details of your goal/dreams for the trip.

I would first ask if you had ever been to Europe. Then I'd ask if you had a destination(s) in mind. Then I'd ask how comfortable you are with foreign languages. And then I'd wonder what sort of things you like to do on a vacation.

For example, I find Europe super easy to visit since I've been there many times. BUT, for my first trip to Europe, my wife (gf at the time) made it easy for me by choosing England & Wales for our destination. It totally removed the foreign language (Welsh was impossible) problem for me, and only left the cultural differences to challenge me. This was pre-Internet/e-mail, so we used guidebooks exclusively, and it still worked out okay.

If you have a specific destination - Paris or Rome or Greek Isles or Tuscany etc. - it is MUCH easier for folks to give you some targeted advice as the French are different than the Germans are different from the Brits, and many folks here have been to an assortment of places in Europe (even lived there).

Regarding language differences, I generally stink at learning languages, but I find I can spend a bit of time prior to a trip brushing up on all the "travel" essentials, and then rely on 1) my wife's much better language skills, 2) the average European's skill at English, and 3) the general ease a touristy area has with polite foreign visitors.  If you HATE feeling stupid (speaking pidgin French or Italian can make you feel really stupid), then a big city or the UK is your best bet for not feeling out of place. If you love a challenge, there is little in Europe that will kill you simply because you can't speak a language. In Hungary, I couldn't even come close to learning the language beyond very simple words/phrases, yet I survived. It was tough but doable, and it really made me appreciate it when I had a translator who was fluent to help, but I'd still return without that sort of help.

Finally, weather is diverse in Europe, and they also have a lot of cultural events that take place at certain times of the year - like Oktoberfest or the running of the bulls or the Christmas markets - so knowing what interests you is helpful.  Likewise, if only going for a short amount of time, it really helps to remember to pay attention to the specific places you want to visit like their hours of operation and advance ticket options/requirements!  For example, the Louvre is closed on Tuesday, so if you have two days in Paris, you better plan accordingly. Or the Last Supper now has a LOT of restrictions in ticketing, and you would want to make sure, if visiting Milan specifically to see it, that you have a reservation.

Finally, my advice for general planning is get the "big" guidebooks (Frommers, Fodors, Rick Steves, Moon, Lonely Planet) from the library - 2020 or 2019 versions only - and read and start planning. Have some alerts set up for airfares too.  Start getting into the mood and start building a wish list of things to see and do, and then try to fit in as much as you can with the understanding nothing ever goes exactly as planned.

Let us know when and where and what you are thinking about!

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30 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I have a bazillion suggestions and tips and recommendations, but it makes no sense to just throw out all sorts of random "answers" without knowing the details of your goal/dreams for the trip.

I would first ask if you had ever been to Europe. Then I'd ask if you had a destination(s) in mind. Then I'd ask how comfortable you are with foreign languages. And then I'd wonder what sort of things you like to do on a vacation.

For example, I find Europe super easy to visit since I've been there many times. BUT, for my first trip to Europe, my wife (gf at the time) made it easy for me by choosing England & Wales for our destination. It totally removed the foreign language (Welsh was impossible) problem for me, and only left the cultural differences to challenge me. This was pre-Internet/e-mail, so we used guidebooks exclusively, and it still worked out okay.

If you have a specific destination - Paris or Rome or Greek Isles or Tuscany etc. - it is MUCH easier for folks to give you some targeted advice as the French are different than the Germans are different from the Brits, and many folks here have been to an assortment of places in Europe (even lived there).

Regarding language differences, I generally stink at learning languages, but I find I can spend a bit of time prior to a trip brushing up on all the "travel" essentials, and then rely on 1) my wife's much better language skills, 2) the average European's skill at English, and 3) the general ease a touristy area has with polite foreign visitors.  If you HATE feeling stupid (speaking pidgin French or Italian can make you feel really stupid), then a big city or the UK is your best bet for not feeling out of place. If you love a challenge, there is little in Europe that will kill you simply because you can't speak a language. In Hungary, I couldn't even come close to learning the language beyond very simple words/phrases, yet I survived. It was tough but doable, and it really made me appreciate it when I had a translator who was fluent to help, but I'd still return without that sort of help.

Finally, weather is diverse in Europe, and they also have a lot of cultural events that take place at certain times of the year - like Oktoberfest or the running of the bulls or the Christmas markets - so knowing what interests you is helpful.  Likewise, if only going for a short amount of time, it really helps to remember to pay attention to the specific places you want to visit like their hours of operation and advance ticket options/requirements!  For example, the Louvre is closed on Tuesday, so if you have two days in Paris, you better plan accordingly. Or the Last Supper now has a LOT of restrictions in ticketing, and you would want to make sure, if visiting Milan specifically to see it, that you have a reservation.

Finally, my advice for general planning is get the "big" guidebooks (Frommers, Fodors, Rick Steves, Moon, Lonely Planet) from the library - 2020 or 2019 versions only - and read and start planning. Have some alerts set up for airfares too.  Start getting into the mood and start building a wish list of things to see and do, and then try to fit in as much as you can with the understanding nothing ever goes exactly as planned.

Let us know when and where and what you are thinking about!

Good advice. I have found the Belgians & Dutch are far more fluent in English and will try to converse with you.  I had a lot of language issues in France & Germany as they won’t try to communicate if you don’t speak their language.  But learning basic phrases and a big smile does go a long way.

I have it easy when we travel to Holland. I basically just have to get there. I always have a place to stay and willing tour guides.  But I have also done numerous site seeing trips for my Dutch family so they are happy to oblige. 

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I've only done it on business, but we're hoping to vacation there in September. 

 

My sister took my mother on one of those river cruises.  Apparently she found it helpful to purchase an expensive, high end camera so she could share her trip with the rest of the family using crappy pictures taken with an expensive, high end camera.

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Simple version:

1) Pick 3 countries, list in order of preference, don't think about it, it doesn't matter.

2) What are the things you want most to do. List 3. This is the important question.

3) What's the most you are willing to spend.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Zackny said:

Backpack and Eurorail. 

Pretty much this. I have traveled 3 times over there and have a lot of info. Best thing you can do is read up on Rick Steve's guides.  This is your must purchase. $18

Rick Steves Europe Through the Back Door: The Travel Skills Handbook https://www.amazon.com/dp/1631216252/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_x4ZjEbJWA1HK1

You can't do it any better or cheaper. Great way to go.

@petitepedal

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44 minutes ago, Dottles said:
5 hours ago, Zackny said:

Backpack and Eurorail. 

Pretty much this.

Are you guys paying attention to the target audience? Maybe you should suggest she stay in hostels too? :wacko:

Sure, trains have their place in European travel (far more than in the US), but way before I suggested the backpack & train idea, I would first affirm destination(s) and her ideas.  For example, say she's into a chateaus of the Loire valley experience. Clearly, a car makes WAY more sense. Maybe even a coach tour or a river tour.  A train tour would be last of my choices for that sort of trip.  Sure, taking the TGV from Paris to Tours saves some drive time, so picking up a car at the train station (rather than by the airport) might be a good idea, but for a lot of Europe (non-city) travel a car remains the best way to get around. 

She certainly can put together a whirlwind trip of the capital cities of Europe(!) and use the train system to get around, but I'd wait to see her thoughts on this trip first. I find picking a country, narrowing it to a region or two, and focusing my time/energy there rather than going too big of a scope and spending hours in planes, trains, and automobiles. 

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6 hours ago, petitepedal said:

Any suggestions on the best way to go for an inexperienced traveler?  Yeah...I am thinking about it...Have some $$ put aside,but not a lot...

 

5 hours ago, Zackny said:

Backpack and Eurorail. 

 

52 minutes ago, Dottles said:

Pretty much this. I have traveled 3 times over there and have a lot of info. Best thing you can do is read up on Rick Steve's guides.  This is your must purchase. $18

Rick Steves Europe Through the Back Door: The Travel Skills Handbook https://www.amazon.com/dp/1631216252/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_x4ZjEbJWA1HK1

You can't do it any better or cheaper. Great way to go.

@petitepedal

I don't think there is a cheaper, better way of doing it than this.  Fly into a hub and travel by train.  Unlike here in America, the trains in Europe drop you off right in the heart of town. Everything essentially was developed around train travel and automobiles came afterwards. So you can be in the greatest of places and stay on the cheap and not have to worry about your safety.  The only thing to be concerned about is theft but you're going to leave your purse at home and have a money belt I know, right? I would follow most of Rick's book suggests.  It may be common sense stuff but he provides a great view for the independent traveler.  If you want posh shit, either save way more money or get a job like @Wilbur.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Are you guys paying attention to the target audience? Maybe you should suggest she stay in hostels too? :wacko:

Sure, trains have their place in European travel (far more than in the US), but way before I suggested the backpack & train idea, I would first affirm destination(s) and her ideas.  For example, say she's into a chateaus of the Loire valley experience. Clearly, a car makes WAY more sense. Maybe even a coach tour or a river tour.  A train tour would be last of my choices for that sort of trip.  Sure, taking the TGV from Paris to Tours saves some drive time, so picking up a car at the train station (rather than by the airport) might be a good idea, but for a lot of Europe (non-city) travel a car remains the best way to get around. 

She certainly can put together a whirlwind trip of the capital cities of Europe(!) and use the train system to get around, but I'd wait to see her thoughts on this trip first. I find picking a country, narrowing it to a region or two, and focusing my time/energy there rather than going too big of a scope and spending hours in planes, trains, and automobiles. 

Hey bozo.  I stayed in a lot of B&Bs there (and hostels too).  Place to sleep, fill your stomach, and go see the world.  My first trip was to England, Scotland, and Ireland because I didn't want to deal with the language barrier and easier to get used to the environments.  But having traveled in Central Europe, one can easily get by with English alone.  Still, going to see the English/Scottish countryside and taking a ferry over to Ireland is a great way to start.  Take the trains and don't listen to RE.  He doesn't know what he is talking about.

If you want to keep the costs down, get the hell out of the large cities and out into the country side.  Besides, you can see all the big city stuff by watching it on YouTube.

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4 minutes ago, Dottles said:

Hey bozo.  I stayed in a lot of B&Bs there.  Place to stay, fill your stomach, and go see the world.  My first trip was to England, Scotland, and Ireland because I didn't want to deal with the language barrier and get used to the environments.  But having traveled in Central Europe, one can easily get by with English alone.  Still going to see the English/Scottish countryside and taking a ferry over to Ireland is a great way to start.  Take the train and don't listen to RE.  He doesn't know what he is talking about.

Just so we're clear, you're fine suggesting "the train" for England? For Greece? For all/most of her traveling needs?

I'm gonna happily stand behind a "where do you want to go" first methodology before jumping on the "train because Europe" nonsense.

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7 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Just so we're clear, you're fine suggesting "the train" for England? For Greece? For all/most of her traveling needs?

I'm gonna happily stand behind a "where do you want to go" first methodology before jumping on the "train because Europe" nonsense.

I stand by my comments of trains for most of Europe, yes.  Except Ireland.  But then I never rode the train in Greece.  Probably the same thing.  It's not nonsense amigo.  Europe was built on the train and you can see everything by it. But since Europe is a large place, I'll keep it to the countries I've visited by rail and those would be Germany, Austria, Switzerland,  Czech Republic, England/Scotland, and Ireland.  As mentioned, I would not use the rail system in Ireland. Every other country I just listed is a must be rail. It's easy and if you buy the Rick Steve's book on travelling by rail to explain the difference and nuances of train travel it's super easy -- with a rail pass.

Definitely go see Europe by train.  Ahem.  I don't know about Greece though. ;)

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Also, I cannot repeat this enough.  If you want to keep your costs down and see a lot of Europe -- do NOT stay in the big cities.  That means London, Paris, Rome, etc...  If you really want to see that one place, then make it a Paris vacation or a London vacation, etc...

But expect to pay 2 or 3 times the amount and have a shorter trip if you do.

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5 minutes ago, Dottles said:

I stand by my comments of trains for most of Europe, yes.  Except Ireland.  But then I never rode the train in Greece.  Probably the same thing.  It's not nonsense amigo.  Europe was built on the train and you can see everything by it. But since Europe is a large place, I'll keep it to the countries I've visited by rail and those would be German, Austria, Switzerland,  Czech Republic, England/Scotland, and Ireland.  As mentioned, I would not use the rail system in Ireland. Every other country I just listed is a must be rail. It's easy and if you buy the Rick Steve's book on travelling by rail to explain the difference and nuances of train travel it's super easy -- with a rail pass.

Definitely go see Europe by train.  Ahem.  I don't know about Greece though. ;)

Bizarre.  Not knowing where she wants to go or what she wants to do or how long she will be there, you go with the "see it by train". 

Idiocy.

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37 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Just so we're clear, you're fine suggesting "the train" for England? For Greece? For all/most of her traveling needs?

I'm gonna happily stand behind a "where do you want to go" first methodology before jumping on the "train because Europe" nonsense.

When someone says they want to go to Europe it's pretty clear the options are still open. Because we both know there are a LOT of things to see in Europe.  If you want the 'Momma don't hurt me approach' then shacking up in a hotel in a city or two or doing the boat cruise thing is the simplest like you recommend.  I do agree with you.  But I think she's way more than capable enough to get out of the big cities -- by train.  But if she wants to play it safe then take a river boat cruise in Germany of fly to the beach in any one of the Mediterranian states.

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19 minutes ago, Dottles said:

Rick Steves

At least she can do some fun planning this Saturday:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Traveler,

This Saturday we'll be streaming our Test Drive a Tour Guide classes live from our home base in Edmonds, WA. Join me and my European guides as we give seven inspiring and informative presentations on Europe's best vacation destinations for 2020.

Tune in and watch live on my website beginning at 9 am Pacific time to learn how we travel in the Rick Steves style — and how easily you can, too.

Here is Saturday's lineup:

  • 9:00 am (PT): Ireland
  • 10:15 am (PT): Italy
  • 11:45 am (PT): England
  • 1:00 pm (PT): France
  • 2:15 pm (PT): Sicily + South Italy 
  • 3:30 pm (PT): Germany + Austria + Switzerland
  • 5:00 pm (PT): Spain

This is our biggest travel event of the year — and you can join in the fun, no matter where you are.

I hope you can tune in.

Happy Travels,

Rick Steves

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22 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

At least she can do some fun planning this Saturday:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Traveler,

This Saturday we'll be streaming our Test Drive a Tour Guide classes live from our home base in Edmonds, WA. Join me and my European guides as we give seven inspiring and informative presentations on Europe's best vacation destinations for 2020.

Tune in and watch live on my website beginning at 9 am Pacific time to learn how we travel in the Rick Steves style — and how easily you can, too.

Here is Saturday's lineup:

  • 9:00 am (PT): Ireland
  • 10:15 am (PT): Italy
  • 11:45 am (PT): England
  • 1:00 pm (PT): France
  • 2:15 pm (PT): Sicily + South Italy 
  • 3:30 pm (PT): Germany + Austria + Switzerland
  • 5:00 pm (PT): Spain

This is our biggest travel event of the year — and you can join in the fun, no matter where you are.

I hope you can tune in.

Happy Travels,

Rick Steves

Rick Steves gets a bad rap because he wants to make America like Europe.  It can be annoying. But he provides amazing advice for the do-it-on-your-own traveler.  Highly recommend.

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So....I was born in Germany and would like to go there someday..I would also like to see Slovenia & Croatia  since my moms parents came from that area..However. France. Mt. Saint-Michel, Chartres and naturally Paris would be great...and Italy..Rome, Florence, Venice Assisi......:dontknow:

I need to find someone to finance me going there for 3 to 6 weeks at a time for a couple of trips....:whistle:.  It doesnt help that I like history.

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6 hours ago, petitepedal said:

Any suggestions on the best way to go for an inexperienced traveler?  Yeah...I am thinking about it...Have some $$ put aside,but not a lot...

The best way for an inexperienced traveler is a commercial tour.  Before checking with a travel agent, look at sites like budgettravel.com to see how cheap some trips are - especially if you're ok with traveling in the lower-priced seasons like July when it's hotter. If you prefer not to sign up on your own, then check with a tour guide - you'll know from your research what prices are reasonable.

Carefully check the listed prices. "Land tour only" means you have to arrange your own air-flights. The are also various port and airport fees that often are not listed, but you can find out what they'll cost from the company.  Of course, you need a passport and you may also need a visa stamp - not a big expense - for certain countries. When you do a commercial tour or cruise, they will take care of the extra visa stuff for you in advance and it's part of the tour price you paid.  For cruises, there may be a discount (maybe 25%) for early booking of side trips and, if you book early, there could be a something like a $300 per-room on-board credit for on-ship spending (you get a sort of ship's credit card that checks you on-and-off ship and with which you buy things on ship).

Cruise ships often drop their prices a lot if they haven't filled the ship a couple weeks before the sailing date. Four of us did an Alaska Cruise that way for $1100 each instead of $1800 in 2002.

There are a few different tour types to consider:

1. Cruises. Examples are sea cruises like Mediterranean that may stop at ports in Spain, Italy, and nearby Islands, or Greece, Turkey, and Israel coastal cities, or Greek Islands and Athens and Istanbul or river cruises like a Danube cruise. The river cruise ships tend to be small with a lower-level of entertainment. The big-ship sea cruises can be sumptuous. If you get the cheapest, inside rooms with no windows (we mostly use the rooms to sleep - we're out and about otherwise) these are as low-cost as other tours. They can stop each day at islands or or coastal/river cities.  The advantage is you go to sleep at night and wake up at a new destination the next day and there's usually lots of time to spend ashore. If you do this, sign up for the latest dinner period on the ship - it usually has something like 6 pm and 8 pm.  The later one allows you to spend more time ashore.

2. Land tours where you spend a few days in a couple cities.  This gives you the chance to really take a city in. There are often side-tours that go outside of a city for the day.  For example, we spent four days in Paris, but one of the days we did a day tour of the chateaus in the Loire Valley, a few hours away.

3. Land tours where you do a city a day.  They made a movie about this called, "If it's Tuesday this must be Belgium."  Unless it's a river or sea cruise where you're moving while you sleep comfortably, I usually don't like this one because you only get a peek at each city.  I did like a 6-day one where we moved to a different city's hotel in Israel every day or two, but we had the same great guide and tour bus and it's a small country so we spent most of the time seeing sites in Israel and Palestine and not a long time traveling to the next destination.

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2 minutes ago, petitepedal said:

So....I was born in Germany and would like to go there someday..I would also like to see Slovenia & Croatia  since my moms parents came from that area..However. France. Mt. Saint-Michel, Chartres and naturally Paris would be great...and Italy..Rome, Florence, Venice Assisi......:dontknow:

I need to find someone to finance me going there for 3 to 6 weeks at a time for a couple of trips....:whistle:.  It doesnt help that I like history.

You've got some smoozing to do on Wilbur.

It's why I went to Prague and Czech Republic to learn more about my roots and the history is fascinating.  I found that when I went by train, every day was a new canvas and there was so much to see and explore that it was a joy to paint it in.  You will not get bored if you have a tad bit of curiosity. But then you probably aren't going to Europe if you're a roku-man like @jsharr

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I did not care for Rome. Venice is expensive and mobbed.

You might fly into Florence, hit some museums. After that, you can go to the coast of France, or Vienna.  Then onto Paris.

There are places you can ride up into the Alps on ski lifts in the summer.

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FYI, I would never do a commercial tour like @MickinMD suggests.... though there are many in his camp that would disagree.  I'm just not into insulated traveling.  I want to see things on my terms -- not just what they want me to see while they try to sell me garbage trinkets to some sucker American consumer. That's not traveling.  That's commercialism.

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8 hours ago, Scrapr said:

Will you fit in my carry on? I'm going in April. 3 weeks. First put Google flights tracking on speed dial. Fly into a gateway. London Paris Amsterdam Frankfurt.  Then use rail to get around. Best rail source is maninseat61.com. Then find your hotel bnb or hostel

 

Easy peasy

Scrape should take you. 

5 hours ago, Wilbur said:

Luxembourg.

Really, you missed a fine stop. 

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