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How Privileged are you?


Dirtyhip

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12 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

I got thrown out of a bar back in the early 70s because I didn’t pave a PLCB card. I had never even heard of one. My bet is nobody else had one either but they didn’t like my motorcycle or my long hair.

Right?! Long hair was totally a thing. Not so much anymore. 
 

I was asked to leave a restaurant in the early 90’s because I was wearing pants with holes in the knees. Today, that’s entirely acceptable.

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3 minutes ago, roadsue said:

Right?! Long hair was totally a thing. Not so much anymore. 
 

I was asked to leave a restaurant in the early 90’s because I was wearing pants with holes in the knees. Today, that’s entirely acceptable.

As an aside I was floored by the dress codes in the DC metro area.  No athletic shoes, must wear a collared shirt, no shorts & etc. Really, all I want is a good steak but I can’t because I have the wrong shoes on?!?!

It more relaxed now but it was a PITA back in the day when we would visit as the in laws always wanted to take us to fancy places so we had to pack nice clothes.

Dress codes are so not a thing in SoCal... 

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Just now, ChrisL said:

As an aside I was floored by the dress codes in the DC metro area.  No athletic shoes, must wear a collared shirt, no shorts & etc. Really, all I want is a good steak but I can’t because I have the wrong shoes on?!?!

It more relaxed now but it was a PITA back in the day when we would visit as the in laws always wanted to take us to fancy places so we had to pack nice clothes.

Dress codes are so not a thing in SoCal... 

I know, right? Moving from the left side to the right, my mellow was totally squashed.

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1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

I've never been asked to leave a restaurant or bar.  

Was a guest at a wedding that got so out of hand that the venue shut down the entire wedding event.

That doesn't count as a yes. LOL

I have never been kicked out of a bar that was open.  Plenty that were closed.  I have been kicked in to a bar.  We were on the patio and my FO got a little obnoxious so they asked us to leave the patio and go inside. :)  In all fairness, he had just found out he had ALS and was drowning his sorrows. 

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AS a white dude, I have been discriminated and harassed by Chinese in China, Arabs in several countries, Blacks in Congo and Indians in Bangalore.  We westerners only think of privilege as a white thing because we are the largest group.  Go somewhere else and you will find it quite the opposite. 

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Clothing as a form of "discrimination" or unfair treatment can be solved/not major.....except of course, one is devout Muslim, Sikh, etc.

And I hate to say this, but in some parts of the world, a woman (still) should not wear a halter top out in public nor short skirt/shorts. Even if exceptions are made for you as the "tourist"...ie. in Saudi Arabia. 

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A friend and I drove to Houston to buy a car. He is black. After we got checked in at the hotel, we walked across the street for a beer at a bar. 2 guys walked up to our table and said “you can finish your drink, but you’ll have to leave” I was very confused because it was well before the hours posted on the door. They looked at me and said “you can stay. HE has to go” I then realized what was up and got very angry. My friend calmed me. Reminded me we could probably take them, but we don’t know how many in here are on their side. 
He had helped me see covert racism but this was the first time I had witnessed such a blatant display. 

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12 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

AS a white dude, I have been discriminated and harassed by Chinese in China, Arabs in several countries, Blacks in Congo and Indians in Bangalore.  We westerners only think of privilege as a white thing because we are the largest group.  Go somewhere else and you will find it quite the opposite. 

I got harassed and actually beaten, over race. 

It happened during the month that released they released the TV series called roots.  It happened only once. Its seems that I could have been a minority group in my grade school.  I wonder if they have that data available. Hmmm.  

My score was Above 50. ?

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18 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

AS a white dude, I have been discriminated and harassed by Chinese in China, Arabs in several countries, Blacks in Congo and Indians in Bangalore.  We westerners only think of privilege as a white thing because we are the largest group.  Go somewhere else and you will find it quite the opposite. 

Wilbur, one of my closest Chinese-Canadian friends (2nd generation) born in Saskatchewan, lived and worked in Japan.  She also travelled all over China and Asia.  She lives here in Calgary.

She got tired of feeling she was being scammed by the local Chinese.  (She doesn't know Mandarin and her Cantonese is lousy.)  It is not difficult for mainland Chinese to figure out the Chinese from North America, who come /from privileged countries where there is more equity, freedom, safety in society etc.  Where we do a lot of stuff by rule of law...there, society there is different... bribery and etc.

 

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21 minutes ago, groupw said:

A friend and I drove to Houston to buy a car. He is black. After we got checked in at the hotel, we walked across the street for a beer at a bar. 2 guys walked up to our table and said “you can finish your drink, but you’ll have to leave” I was very confused because it was well before the hours posted on the door. They looked at me and said “you can stay. HE has to go” I then realized what was up and got very angry. My friend calmed me. Reminded me we could probably take them, but we don’t know how many in here are on their side. 
He had helped me see covert racism but this was the first time I had witnessed such a blatant display. 

I would not want to be black.  There have been incidents in Metro Toronto where black, university educated journalists, lawyers have been carded/followed by police. For no reason, they were just in a neighbourhood, etc.

Education does not protect a person, but gives a person a set of tools and skills to speak out, read and navigate the complexities of law, authorities and how to verbalize it in a language that audience can understand and negotiate with a pile of other professionals by cutting through their industry lingo.  It can give a person stronger set of advocacy skills, research to find resources and services to help oneself and others.  

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1 minute ago, shootingstar said:

I would not be black.  There have been incidents in Metro Toronto where black, university educated journalists, lawyers have been carded/followed by police. For no reason, they were just in a neighbourhood, etc.

My friend is educated, handsome and very meticulous. Women swooned for him at the office we worked. He was offered the job as voice for some high end car products. He is not a stereotype, yet I witnessed many of the same things with him. Not if we were together, but you could see him being followed by security frequently until we made contact. After that the security people would leave him alone as long as he was with a white person. 

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3 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I would not be black.  There have been incidents in Metro Toronto where black, university educated journalists, lawyers have been carded/followed by police. For no reason, they were just in a neighbourhood, etc.

I shared this story but while I was still a cop I drove with a friend in a 1969 camaro he was fixing up. We were getting his wife who was helping out in a different store than she normally works at in an affluent neighborhood.  Two brown dudes in a shitty car in a nice neighborhood...

Of course he gets pulled over, cop asks what are you doing here. Picking up my wife.. Bull shit what are you doing here... He takes us out of the car and I ask him to let my pull my ID.  I badge him, he chills out and I said dude really, why’d you pull us over?  He just said you know how it is here... and let us go.

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I got a 52. It would be higher if I had not been so skinny in high school. I also worked in a Chinese restaurant where the Chinese cooks treated Americans with suspicion. We also frequent many Latino places. We have been the only Anglo Americans in a couple cafes where English was not the language of choice. We are respectful so we have never been treated poorly, but we could definitely feel eyes if other patrons on us!

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21 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I shared this story but while I was still a cop I drove with a friend in a 1969 camaro he was fixing up. We were getting his wife who was helping out in a different store than she normally works at in an affluent neighborhood.  Two brown dudes in a shitty car in a nice neighborhood...

Of course he gets pulled over, cop asks what are you doing here. Picking up my wife.. Bull shit what are you doing here... He takes us out of the car and I ask him to let my pull my ID.  I badge him, he chills out and I said dude really, why’d you pull us over?  He just said you know how it is here... and let us go.

What azz, that cop was.  

3 wks. ago, I got my haircut by my Croatian-CNaadian hairstylist.  Now, I know some of her best friends, long time are Vietnamese-Canadian.  

Anyway, again she said to me by lowering her voice, when I asked where her new apartment was.  She said:  "There's a lot of brown people there in the north end".   I said:  "I'm sure it's just families, etc.".  Not sure what it meant by that.  Would she have said I live in a white neighbourhood?  No.  Because that's her norm.

Keep in mind, I like her as a person. She is a person who normally is open to learning.

Later I gave her a URL link to my half-Chinese niece's interracial romance novels....  She did tell me awhile ago, she read steamy romance novels.  My niece's twitter feed sometimes has various issues on being mixed race...where they hear offensive crap but the people don't realize the person is mixed/has a parent of colour.

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17 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

I relented and took it and got a 67.  It seems mostly a test of whether you are gay or not, and I fully appreciate that I am straight and don't have to go through all the trials and tribulations of being gay.

D'Oh, I've been booted from the castle.  :(

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1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

AS a white dude, I have been discriminated and harassed by Chinese in China, Arabs in several countries, Blacks in Congo and Indians in Bangalore.  We westerners only think of privilege as a white thing because we are the largest group.  Go somewhere else and you will find it quite the opposite. 

We got a bit of crap in Japan where some school kids sneered and wouldn't get up to give their elders the seat.  That lasted till my son tore a strip off their asses in Japanese.  Everyone on the train was staring at them and they were embarrassed.

Still after getting the seat, an elderly lady wouldn't sit in the open seat next to me.

Gaijin is the appropriate word.

 

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19 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

D'Oh, I've been booted from the castle.  :(

SW got 79!  The BMW had to put him over the top!  Did you account for all your bikes?  :D  I am surprised you scored well at all being a women, as you are Shirley oppressed by white male privilege.  We white males are eville bastards. :(

 

 

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1 hour ago, shootingstar said:

Wilbur, one of my closest Chinese-Canadian friends (2nd generation) born in Saskatchewan, lived and worked in Japan.  She also travelled all over China and Asia.  She lives here in Calgary.

She got tired of feeling she was being scammed by the local Chinese.  (She doesn't know Mandarin and her Cantonese is lousy.)  It is not difficult for mainland Chinese to figure out the Chinese from North America, who come /from privileged countries where there is more equity, freedom, safety in society etc.  Where we do a lot of stuff by rule of law...there, society there is different... bribery and etc.

 

A Chinese Canadian friend of mine has similar issues in his Richmond neighbourhood.  The Mainland Chinese immigrants are always yelling at him and calling him names because he doesn't speak Mandarin and has a white wife. :)   He does speak Mandarin, he just refuses to. 

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Just now, Square Wheels said:

This.  What does being gay have to do with being privileged?  A good friend of mine is gay, he lives in a castle.  He's loaded.  He wants for nothing.

Shirley there is a wide range.  For every one of him there are probably a few who had to endure bullying and discrimination.

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Just now, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

Shirley there is a wide range.  For every one of him there are probably a few who had to endure bullying and discrimination.

I'm sure this is true.  He was terrified of coming out.  We lost touch for about 10 years while he was engaging in very risky behaviour.  He seems happy now, that makes me happy.  

This is their house.

https://www.jackson-nh.org/about-jackson/pages/wentworth-castle

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42 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

A Chinese Canadian friend of mine has similar issues in his Richmond neighbourhood.  The Mainland Chinese immigrants are always yelling at him and calling him names because he doesn't speak Mandarin and has a white wife. :)   He does speak Mandarin, he just refuses to. 

There's no real point of avoiding to speak Mandarin with them.  HIs neighbours could learn something small.   I don't get it, Wilbur.  :wacko:

I never avoid speaking my dialect to other family members, on the street when I'm approached for help, no matter how poorly when dearie is around. And also my other sister who is married to a Caucasian with mixed kids.  

I never deny/hide who I am and what I am capable of, even my mother tongue has degraded (as if I can hide my race/background....).  Every bit of mother language helps in certain social situations.

And the reverse, when dearie speaking lots of German, I don't get uncomfortable.  I think it's great....and trust the social situation that I'm not being discussed/nothing mean is being said at all. And he could be talking in German...for hours.

Dearie and I hit off very well in the beginning in these alternate language situations where other partner is completely ignorant of what is being said.  It's ok. I don't feel lonesome, lost. Many forumites have no clue what it feels like to grow up one's entire childhood/teen of not understanding what parents are even talking about 75% of time in another language. I've lived my whole personal life in twilight zone.

A person learns what to trust and what not to trust by certain non-verbal behaviours ….at the most basic level.  I don't even know what my mother is saying sometimes.  But I must trust her...she loves and raised me.

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2 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

There's no real point of avoiding to speak Mandarin with them.  HIs neighbours could learn something small.   I don't get it, Wilbur.  :wacko:

I never avoid speaking my dialect to other family members, on the street when I'm approached for help, no matter how poorly when dearie is around. And also my other sister who is married to a Caucasian with mixed kids.  

I never deny/hide who I am and what I am capable of, even my mother tongue has degraded (as if I can hide my race/background....).  Every bit of mother language helps in certain social situations.  

He feels they have immigrated and need to learn the languages of Canada.  He won't have their language forced on him in an English/French country.   I guess that is his protest.  

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19 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

He feels they have immigrated and need to learn the languages of Canada.  He won't have their language forced on him in an English/French country.   I guess that is his protest.  

It's not worth that form of protest, Wilbur.  To do that to my mother and some cousins, is insensitive, horrible for intergenerational understanding and doesn't create understanding half way...at all.
And the reverse, for parents to get mad at children who lost their mother tongue, doesn't work either.  They will eventually recognize the child is in a powerful position to help parent...and for children to gain by having a better life.  They also recognize societal pressure on children to assimilate which does end up in language loss.

One day...his children will WISH they knew how to speak Mandarin.....just like my half-Chinese nieces and nephews who know from childhood and onward, the advantages of knowing their family's 2nd language... to even understand certain conversations.  These kids don't know the language, but they are more sensitive about that stuff with Chinese speaking relatives.

 

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2 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

I've never been asked to leave a restaurant or bar.

We have.  Wo46 and I were out on the motorcycle when we stopped at a restaurant and when we walked in we were told that they would not be able to serve us. I wanted to go outside and make a reservation at the same restaurant and walk right back in but Wo46 said no..

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27 minutes ago, BR46 said:

We have.  Wo46 and I were out on the motorcycle when we stopped at a restaurant and when we walked in we were told that they would not be able to serve us. I wanted to go outside and make a reservation at the same restaurant and walk right back in but Wo46 said no..

Unless my personal safety as a cyclist is threatened with an irate driver even if I didn't do anything illegal on the road, I don't consider it's worth using my vehicle choice as a serious "discrimination" and how other people might mistakenly perceive me (being cheap, in low-income by cycling...when I'm middle class..compared to my parents' lifelong poverty.).  It amuses me, when car drivers think they are discriminated.... Really?   --- ask your municipality how much they spend on budget for road building and maintenance annually. Every year, Every decade.  And a car is not a 1 ton weapon compared to a "dangerous" bike?  

I know people use clothing, vehicles, even where one lives (ie sketchy neighbourhood)…. but gender, race, sexual orientation is imprinted into a person, sometimes a visual indicator, and cannot be changed without serious/major psychological/attitude change or trying to change societal attitudes large scale over decades, centuries.

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1 hour ago, shootingstar said:

It's not worth that form of protest, Wilbur.  To do that to my mother and some cousins, is insensitive, horrible for intergenerational understanding and doesn't create understanding half way...at all.
And the reverse, for parents to get mad at children who lost their mother tongue, doesn't work either.  They will eventually recognize the child is in a powerful position to help parent...and for children to gain by having a better life.  They also recognize societal pressure on children to assimilate which does end up in language loss.

One day...his children will WISH they knew how to speak Mandarin.....just like my half-Chinese nieces and nephews who know from childhood and onward, the advantages of knowing their family's 2nd language... to even understand certain conversations.  These kids don't know the language, but they are more sensitive about that stuff with Chinese speaking relatives.

 

His kids are grown and doctoring.  They speak some Mandarin because of grandparents but otherwise have little interest in their historic culture.  Once you are far enough removed, it really doesn't matter.  I read and speak 4 languages and none are my family lineage (Scottish Gaelic).

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I've often wondered if these surveys are suppose to make us feel guilty because we might be better off than someone else. Or make us said or jealous that someone has it better than us.

I'm I suppose to feel guilty because I grew up in small mostly white city in Wisconsin. And not a major city where there's problems.

I had my own struggles growing up and I still struggle with them today with  my  dad dying when I was young and mother who didn't care.

Growing up in the 60s and 70s and you were dyslexic you didn't have a problem you were just stupid. Does that mean I have it worse than someone else? I don't know. I did figure out how to work around my problem and make the most of my life. 

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3 hours ago, Wilbur said:

AS a white dude, I have been discriminated and harassed by Chinese in China, Arabs in several countries, Blacks in Congo and Indians in Bangalore.  We westerners only think of privilege as a white thing because we are the largest group.  Go somewhere else and you will find it quite the opposite. 

Right?! It’s context. My blonde niece had kids constantly asking to touch her hair when she was working in the south of India. 

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2 minutes ago, BR46 said:

I've often wondered if these surveys are suppose to make us feel guilty because we might be better off than someone else. Or make us said or jealous that someone has it better than us.

I'm I suppose to feel guilty because I grew up in small mostly white city in Wisconsin. And not a major city where there's problems.

I had my own struggles growing up and I still struggle with them today with  my  dad dying when I was young and mother who didn't care.

Growing up in the 60s and 70s and you were dyslexic you didn't have a problem you were just stupid. Does that mean I have it worse than someone else? I don't know. I did figure out how to work around my problem and make the most of my life. 

IMO the survey was clearly penned by someone more experienced with today's situation than that which existed for prior generations.

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I have had the advantage of growing up with a stable home life and the comfort that comes from great parents.

But privileged?  No.

I am a unilingual white male working for the government.  Since the time I applied for the job, I was told these were all negative marks against me.  Many times other, less skilled or qualified people were provided key opportunities over me because of the demographic they fit into.

Was this to try to correct past discriminations and try to bring areas up to more representative numbers?  Yes, of course because for years there was blantant discriminations.

Did I benefit from these early prejudices?  No.  It was identified and corrected before my time. 

Even now...., when we are being covered for news or magazine articles, one of the first questions is always "Are there any females or people of colour we csn interview/photograph?"

I scored a 55 on the test

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I think the greatest privilege I experienced was the expectation that I would go to college. I lost my way as a teen, depressed after the unexpected, sudden death of my father. But I got myself back together because of this basic expectation that had been instilled in me since childhood. I would have been very lost without that.

I’ve worked hard to achieve what I’ve accomplished, but do feel privileged that my parents would expect that of me. 

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1 hour ago, Zephyr said:

I have had the advantage of growing up with a stable home life and the comfort that comes from great parents.

But privileged?  No.

I am a unilingual white male working for the government.  Since the time I applied for the job, I was told these were all negative marks against me.  Many times other, less skilled or qualified people were provided key opportunities over me because of the demographic they fit into.

Was this to try to correct past discriminations and try to bring areas up to more representative numbers?  Yes, of course because for years there was blantant discriminations.

Did I benefit from these early prejudices?  No.  It was identified and corrected before my time. 

Even now...., when we are being covered for news or magazine articles, one of the first questions is always "Are there any females or people of colour we csn interview/photograph?"

I scored a 55 on the test

My wife was fuming over a politician that zoomed right past her to greet a black woman. Karma got him later though as he was tossed oot of office for some malfeasance. :)  We are probably paying his pension though  :(

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

IBut I got myself back together because of this basic expectation that had been instilled in me since childhood. I would have been very lost without that.

I’ve worked hard to achieve what I’ve accomplished, but do feel privileged that my parents would expect that of me. 

This mindset is a privilege marker. My faculty has been undergoing equity training for teaching children who have grown up in poverty, with trauma, or who have a family history of diagnosed mental illness. The belief that we can work for additional opportunities is not present in high-risk children. They believe life is cut out for you, things happen “for a reason,” and when people are “there for each other” that’s how you are successful. They believe in luck, not hard work. 

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8 hours ago, Longjohn said:

Pardon my French but obviously a homosexual, entitled,liberal terrorist.

i almost backed out of the quiz because the questions were worded in such a way that I could see where they were going. I finished it and came out 50% privileged.

It was too stupid to finish, so I didn't.

 

8 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

I was asked these questions in 1998.  Not that long ago.  

Actually, that is a long time ago.  People are a lot better at not asking those questions these days.

8 hours ago, roadsue said:

Or, instead it could be someone who understands power imbalances, but otherwise is a lot like you. 

No, it is someone that wants to show the world "how hard they have it" and wants to shame others who haven't had it as hard for reasons they attribute to whatever it is they want to attribute toward for their purposes, which appears, blatantly, to be sjw'ing based on biases they would never admit to.

8 hours ago, Chris... said:

I stopped at are you heterosexual. I’m white and heterosexual, that’s all they need to know for their skewed quiz. 

Correct, toxic whitey.

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8 hours ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

I am gonna guess 70% before taking it, just based on being a white bread white male who grew up and now lives in middle class suburbia. 

( This reminds me of a cow-orker who got arrested at Mardi Gras saying. " You can't do this!  I'm from suburbia!"  :D )

 

I’m gonna use that line tonight. 

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7 hours ago, KrAzY said:

I started taking the test... then I got confused... Was this about my childhood or about me right now? 
Two completely different times. 

 

6 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

I suspect that the test is less valid for those of us beyond a certain age.  Things were different in the first half of the last century.

This "test" was clearly aimed at the 20-30 age crowd. 

I scored a 77, and would/could easily float a few points either way if looking at it from my 25 yr old self perspective.  Student loans at almost 50??? No good. At 25? Typical, I bet.  An "elite" schools is relatively vague. I just used "Ivy League", but could easily expand that to many many more schools - say top 25 or top 100?

Anyway, I see where they are coming from, but it isn't for most of us here (probably ALL of us here?). 

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21 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

It was too stupid to finish, so I didn't.

 

Actually, that is a long time ago.  People are a lot better at not asking those questions these days.

No, it is someone that wants to show the world "how hard they have it" and wants to shame others who haven't had it as hard for reasons they attribute to whatever it is they want to attribute toward for their purposes, which appears, blatantly, to be sjw'ing based on biases they would never admit to.

Correct, toxic whitey.

Didn't mean to trigger you.  

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35 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

It was too stupid to finish, so I didn't.

Actually, that is a long time ago.  People are a lot better at not asking those questions these days.

No, it is someone that wants to show the world "how hard they have it" and wants to shame others who haven't had it as hard for reasons they attribute to whatever it is they want to attribute toward for their purposes, which appears, blatantly, to be sjw'ing based on biases they would never admit to.

Correct, toxic whitey.

Hey Random...I exercise my privilege.....as a woman who chose not to have children.  I realize how easier my personal time is. Always knew this.  And no personal regrets. Nor do I feel guilt...as the eldest looking after little siblings and witnessing difficulties of child raising via my parents.

And I know every parent will tell me how much they love their children...even though there are times they will harbour exhaustion and frustration for not being appreciated by children for long amounts of time.  Or some must work straight through to retirement age because they are still supporting children. 

Nor have I lived through a divorce but witness from the sidelines what it can do to young children.

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