What is the point of making people do a resume and a job application?

[Forum Administrator]

In order to apply for this job, I need to submit a resume, list of references, and complete the application. 

Here's my resume in a nutshell....

• Contact information
• Experience
• Certifications
• Education

Here's what the job application asks for

• Contact information
• Certifications
• Education
• Experience
• References

The only question that is not answered by reading my resume is "Have you every been convicted of a crime that would require you to surrender your teaching license?" You could even assume that has been answered when I say all of my licenses are current.

[jsharr]

Gives the interviewer a chance to look for hot chicks and guys to come in for an interview?

[Kzoo]

To see if you can follow instructions.

[Kzoo]

Just now, Kzoo said:

To see if you can follow instructions.

To see if you can follow instructions without grumbling.

You fail.

 

[jsharr]

Most likely the job application is for people with out resumes and it probably has a bunch of boiler plate that you agree to when you sign it and you did not read that allows them to do a lot of intrusive back ground checks.

[jsharr]

1 minute ago, Kzoo said:

To see if you can follow instructions without grumbling.

You fail.

 

What is he is applying for a position as head of grumbling or something?

[Kzoo]

Just now, jsharr said:

Most likely the job application is for people with out resumes and it probably has a bunch of boiler plate that you agree to when you sign it and you did not read that allows them to do a lot of intrusive back ground checks.

And maybe fire you for things discovered later that either are or are not your fault.

 

[Razors Edge]

17 minutes ago, Forum Administrator said:

Have you every been convicted of a crime that would require you to surrender your teaching license?"

Smile at that one and ask if they only check the state records or the broader national records?  You don't want to risk not getting a second interview if you answer without knowing how thorough they are.

[Kzoo]

1 minute ago, jsharr said:

What is he is applying for a position as head of grumbling or something?

Well.......... let me think about that and get back to you.  If you don't hear back from me within the next 2 weeks, please feel free to contact me regarding this important issue.

[Forum Administrator]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

Smile at that one and ask if they only check the state records or the broader national records?  You don't want to risk not getting a second interview if you answer without knowing how thorough they are.

I forget what show I saw this on, but the interview went like this...

"Can you describe a weakness of yours?"

"I tend to take questions literally."

"Can you provide an example?"

"Yes."

 

[Mr. Silly]

31 minutes ago, Forum Administrator said:

Here's my resume in a nutshell....

• Contact information
• Experience
• Certifications
• Education

Here's what the job application asks for

• Contact information
• Certifications
• Education
• Experience
• References

1. Having both allows them to check to see if the information on the resume is consistent with what is on the job application.  "Your resume says you started September of 1998 yet on the job application you said you started August of '98.  Can you explain the discrepancy?"
2. They can check your penmanship on the job application.

[Forum Administrator]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Silly said:

1. Having both allows them to check to see if the information on the resume is consistent with what is on the job application.  "Your resume says you started September of 1998 yet on the job application you said you started August of '98.  Can you explain the discrepancy?"
2. They can check your penmanship on the job application.

 

That could be it....  The application is a non-fillable PDF, just like they had in the 1990s.

[jsharr]

1 minute ago, Forum Administrator said:

 

That could be it....  The application is a non-fillable PDF, just like they had in the 1990s.

PDF's became fillable in 1996.  I am not sure you are a good fit for this job.  I need to dig into your background a bit now.  May need to contact that warden at the prison.

[maddmaxx]

Consensus seem to be that it's a filter to weed out shifty, hard to get along with people.  I had one professionally done in 2012 when I got retired.  No one ever called back.

[Longjohn]

3 hours ago, Forum Administrator said:

In order to apply for this job, I need to submit a resume, list of references, and complete the application. 

Here's my resume in a nutshell....

• Contact information
• Experience
• Certifications
• Education

Here's what the job application asks for

• Contact information
• Certifications
• Education
• Experience
• References

The only question that is not answered by reading my resume is "Have you every been convicted of a crime that would require you to surrender your teaching license?" You could even assume that has been answered when I say all of my licenses are current.

At the forge they were getting bombarded with applications sent from the unemployment office or welfare. It was the deepest dregs of society and most of them didn’t pass their drug test. The ones that did would quit very soon after being hired or be let go because of absenteeism. They started only accepting resumes and those people didn’t know how to make one out. It was the kind of work that you had to really need a job and not be afraid to work.

[maddmaxx]

51 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

At the forge they were getting bombarded with applications sent from the unemployment office or welfare. It was the deepest dregs of society and most of them didn’t pass their drug test. The ones that did would quit very soon after being hired or be let go because of absenteeism. They started only accepting resumes and those people didn’t know how to make one out. It was the kind of work that you had to really need a job and not be afraid to work.

I worked in a steel mill for a short time.  It was only a rolling mill with annealing ovens but it was by far the most dangerous place I've ever worked in. (well, almost the most dangerous)

Salaries were ok but the bonus money for production numbers was so high these guys would do maintenance on a running mill because the operator wouldn't shut it down.

[Longjohn]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

I worked in a steel mill for a short time.  It was only a rolling mill with annealing ovens but it was by far the most dangerous place I've ever worked in. (well, almost the most dangerous)

Salaries were ok but the bonus money for production numbers was so high these guys would do maintenance on a running mill because the operator wouldn't shut it down.

I would weld something that was needed on a conveyor while I was on break and the relief operator was running the press. I had many weeks where I made over $600.00 in bonus. The rest of my crew made slightly less. Some crews were not that motivated and some only averaged $150.00 a week.

[Indy]

Resume says more, job application is for HR idiots to be able to put info in their system.  The one that surprises me is references, most places don't ask for them anymore because it's pretty much a pointless exercise.  Like anyone you put down as a reference is going to say anything negative about you, plus there can actually be legal issues if they do as it can become a liable case.  Yes, I have heard of it and actually had a boss at a previous job say that is why they stopped asking for them, they weren't allowed to use them if provided.  They had an issue where a reference left a less than favorable review and somehow they applicant managed to sue their reference and the hiring company for defamation of character.  

[Longjohn]

15 minutes ago, Indy said:

Resume says more, job application is for HR idiots to be able to put info in their system.  The one that surprises me is references, most places don't ask for them anymore because it's pretty much a pointless exercise.  Like anyone you put down as a reference is going to say anything negative about you, plus there can actually be legal issues if they do as it can become a liable case.  Yes, I have heard of it and actually had a boss at a previous job say that is why they stopped asking for them, they weren't allowed to use them if provided.  They had an issue where a reference left a less than favorable review and somehow they applicant managed to sue their reference and the hiring company for defamation of character.  

That is stupid. If someone is dumb enough to give me as a reference and I get a call asking about the person I’m going to be truthful about them. I had a deadbeat tenant that was behind on his rent, after his eviction notice was served he lived rent free for another three months. Meanwhile he trashed the place and left all his crap for me to clean up. Then I get a call from another landlord saying this guy listed me as a reference. I just told the facts. Some people earned the right to be homeless.

[jsharr]

18 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

That is stupid. If someone is dumb enough to give me as a reference and I get a call asking about the person I’m going to be truthful about them. I had a deadbeat tenant that was behind on his rent, after his eviction notice was served he lived rent free for another three months. Meanwhile he trashed the place and left all his crap for me to clean up. Then I get a call from another landlord saying this guy listed me as a reference. I just told the facts. Some people earned the right to be homeless.

Note to self: remove John from reference list on current resume.

[maddmaxx]

Naval intelligence didn't bother asking for references for my security clearances.  They just dropped by my neighborhood and asked around.  

[Longjohn]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

Naval intelligence didn't bother asking for references for my security clearances.  They just dropped by my neighborhood and asked around.  

That’s what my wife’s company did. They were contractors for the government.

[Ralphie]

9 hours ago, Kzoo said:

To see if you can follow instructions.

Or how well you deal with logs rolled in front of you, because when you are corporate America, it’s what you do.

 

[MickinMD]

In my experience, the company's application was intended to make sure I provided key information that my resume may not have.

I don't know how effective my resumes were in terms of style or what I included. I held two jobs after college, one in industrial research and one in teaching the gifted and talented, and after I got them I learned that basically the people doing the hiring got to "Illinois Institute of Technology" on my resume and I had the job.

When I was a senior in college, a couple Chemistry professors - I had a job in the Chemistry Department - told me to make sure I gave every college that was offering me a scholarship a fair consideration for grad school.  But the professors I trusted most and worked for said, "Yeah, do that and then pick IIT. It will pay-off in the end."

The trusted ones were right.

[Forum Administrator]

4 hours ago, Indy said:

The one that surprises me is references, most places don't ask for them anymore because it's pretty much a pointless exercise. 

I don't call references.  I do a google search and call former employers. When an employer will only verify employment, that is about the worst recommendation someone can receive.

I have been told that as long as you keep with honest, observable things, you can tell the truth when someone calls for a recommendation.  For example, "She called in sick 17 times in three months," is ok.  While, "She faked being sick 17 times in three months," is not.

[shootingstar]

I disagree with providing references automatically when submitting application/resume.

For the big firms/organizations, I've worked for, the applicant is not asked for references at the beginning....only if you make the 2nd cut after being interviewed or so.  Those are the smarter firms who don't waste time collecting all sorts of information into their database and 80% or more won't be even used all.

[Airehead]

Resume gives you a chance to sell yourself but the application is considered a legal hiring document. We can use it to term people for lying about their credentials or whatnot. At least in NY the resume is t considered the same. 

[Airehead]

8 hours ago, Forum Administrator said:

don't call references.  I do a google search and call former employers. When an employer will only verify employment, that is about the worst recommendation someone can receive.

Many schools will only verify dates of employment. It is just the norm not a worse case scenario. Now principals. They will say anything. 

[Indy]

9 hours ago, Forum Administrator said:

I don't call references.  I do a google search and call former employers. When an employer will only verify employment, that is about the worst recommendation someone can receive.

I have been told that as long as you keep with honest, observable things, you can tell the truth when someone calls for a recommendation.  For example, "She called in sick 17 times in three months," is ok.  While, "She faked being sick 17 times in three months," is not.

A lot of companies, that's all they are allowed to do.  Every place I've worked, verification of employment was it, again it can become a liability issue.  Freaking Lawyers run amok.

[Ralphie]

On 2/14/2020 at 6:07 AM, Indy said:

A lot of companies, that's all they are allowed to do.  Every place I've worked, verification of employment was it, again it can become a liability issue.  Freaking Lawyers run amok.

Lawyers are good at getting the last word!

[Forum Administrator]

On 2/14/2020 at 6:07 AM, Indy said:

A lot of companies, that's all they are allowed to do.  Every place I've worked, verification of employment was it, again it can become a liability issue.  Freaking Lawyers run amok.

I guess education is different.  Public school teachers are government employees. I can go as far as requesting their personnel file. That gives me their evaluations and whether or not they have been disciplined.  

[Square Wheels]

3 hours ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

Lawyers are good at getting the last word!

Have them post here.

 

[Dottleshead]

There is no fucking point. Job interviewers can kiss my ass... unless it's @Kzoo. He's not getting anywhere near my ass.