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'course govn't employees get laid off too


shootingstar
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Sometimes, when people bitch and complain that govn't employees are protected, that they are never laid off.

Bullshit. Complete bullshit. 

Govn't hirng, turnovers, layoffs have been happening more frequently in past 20 years...at least where I've been.

I've worked for 3 different govn't jursidictions - provincial govn't in Ontario and British Columbia.   Now for Alberta city municipality. Has happened in all 3 organizations where I've worked.  

Layoffs do happen, ...often it's not reported in the press at all. Only occasionally.  Maybe you'll get a total number for a dept. or vague target. And then there's stuff that happens in dribbles.

Where I've been, suddenly a person is no longer around the next day or following week.  People don't really want to talk about it much ...because they're not certain.  

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7 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Sometimes, when people bitch and complain that govn't employees are protected, that they are never laid off.

Bullshit. Complete bullshit. 

Govn't hirng, turnovers, layoffs have been happening more frequently in past 20 years...at least where I've been.

I've worked for 3 different govn't jursidictions - provincial govn't in Ontario and British Columbia Now for Alberta city municipality. Has happened in all 3 organizations where I've worked.  

Layoffs do happen, ...often it's not reported in the press at all. Only occasionally.  Maybe you'll get a total number for a dept. or vague target. And then there's stuff that happens in dribbles.

Where I've been, suddenly a person is no longer around the next day or following week.  People don't really want to talk about it much ...because they're not certain.  

The demographic profile, ie. % of hires and resignations  --metrics are given to us every quarter across the whole organization.  

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52 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Sometimes, when people bitch and complain that govn't employees are protected, that they are never laid off.

Bullshit. Complete bullshit. 

Govn't hirng, turnovers, layoffs have been happening more frequently in past 20 years...at least where I've been.

I've worked for 3 different govn't jursidictions - provincial govn't in Ontario and British Columbia.   Now for Alberta city municipality. Has happened in all 3 organizations where I've worked.  

Layoffs do happen, ...often it's not reported in the press at all. Only occasionally.  Maybe you'll get a total number for a dept. or vague target. And then there's stuff that happens in dribbles.

Where I've been, suddenly a person is no longer around the next day or following week.  People don't really want to talk about it much ...because they're not certain.  

You are so right!  I was extremely upset with former MD Gov. Martin O'Malley because he raised the allowed income for a family of four to receive SCHIP (free kids health insurance) to around $86,000 after the 2008 crash and, in order to reach the mandatory balanced state budget, fired huge numbers of workers who were mostly in the $35,000 to $40,000 income range!

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1 hour ago, Indy said:

Not aware of anyone saying it doesn't happen.  Just like anything, departments are cut or expanded all the time.

What the public doesn't know, despite shrieking taxpayers....a lot of lay-offs do happen sometimes in 1 block, sometimes a person here and there, and it's never reported in the press.  It might be a mysterious budget saving figure but no details "what" was saved. Nothing. No mention of staff cuts, etc.  It happens a lot.

There are mini expansions in some areas..and ploys where the growing trend is instead of hiring for permanent employees, make that a contract position  for 12 or 18 months.  While,that's ok for certain projects, certain programs...for other services, it is costly in terms of staff retraining and loss of knowledge expertise.

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1 minute ago, shootingstar said:

What the public doesn't know, despite shrieking taxpayers....a lot of lay-offs do happen sometimes in 1 block, sometimes a person here and there, and it's never reported in the press.  It might be a mysterious budget saving figure but no details "what" was saved. Nothing. No mention of staff cuts, etc.  It happens a lot.

 

Same thing happens in the private sector.  There are usually laws that if layoff numbers are below a certain threshold, they don't have to be reported.  So companies will string it a long, a few at a time, so it stays out of the press.  And no, we never know either, just suddenly people are gone.  I really not sure what your point is.

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5 minutes ago, Indy said:

Same thing happens in the private sector.  There are usually laws that if layoff numbers are below a certain threshold, they don't have to be reported.  So companies will string it a long, a few at a time, so it stays out of the press.  And no, we never know either, just suddenly people are gone.  I really not sure what your point is.

Because people tend believe govn't employees are comfy...and people join govn't to work with that misleading impression. A job for life. That is never assured.  

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1 minute ago, shootingstar said:

Because people tend believe govn't employees are comfy...and people join govn't to work with that misleading impression. A job for life. That is never assured.  

It's like anything, depends on your job and in some cases that is true.

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9 minutes ago, Indy said:

It's like anything, depends on your job and in some cases that is true.

It is noticeable the ones who leave govn't tend to be younger....since they probably are chomping at the bit / didn't quite appreciate their benefits, etc.  Of course I've been like that...and I jumped somewhere else with severk tears stints in private sectors with national and global firms.  So not a totally clueless govn't employee... I hope.

The better govn't employees are those who have worked in private sector before joining govn't or have worked in various depts. /various govn't.  Most private sector.. haven't a clue how complicated and all the services that govn't delivers/provides to citizens.

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11 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Because people tend believe govn't employees are comfy...and people join govn't to work with that misleading impression. A job for life. That is never assured.  

Me, I’m one of those people.  Does Govt sector face lay offs, sure they do. Do Govt employees work hard, sure many do.

What bothers me is the wide scale good ole boy network, lack of accountability and employee friendly labor agreements that allow inept work and often times promotes it. I’d love to see many Govt sector employees face what we in the private sector face.  Many wouldn’t make it.

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1 hour ago, ChrisL said:

What bothers me is the wide scale good ole boy network, lack of accountability and employee friendly labor agreements that allow inept work and often times promotes it. I’d love to see many Govt sector employees face what we in the private sector face.  Many wouldn’t make it.

It depends sometimes on job roles.  There are good and not so good employees in govn't vs. private sector.

Within govn't there is iinterdepartmental billing, which can be good at times... and increasingly, more reporting of metrics to the public more frequently because it's just easier to do it now, with data.  There are evaluations directly on some employees' service delivery by the public...and sometimes, if they serve internal depts.  I am directly evaluated by other employees who I teach.  Now if that doesn't, mean real client scrutiny...  Then later, I will be evaluated for degree of project success in a few months...another new measure.  So it happens.  But it's not new to me, personally because of what I experienced in other jobs.

The ole boys' network is for real in either type of organization....still. It is getting abit better in certain areas/sectors.  Problems of accountabilities will persist in certain corners.

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1 hour ago, Page Turner said:

But we still had the same number of fires and emergency calls, so even the people still working were unhappy. :(  Not me, I'm just happy to be here.

I'm similar..... if I have some work in job that is fulfilling, can challenge me and I work directly with clients, I'm happy ( in addition to the salary).  I'm being of use to an organization....that's good enough for me.

Some employees in either public or private sector, can't stand multiple tasks, projects or sudden change in direction/priorities.  Personally, I don\t mind it , as long as I'm given some choice how to juggle those priorities within certain limits during the day.  There's 1 employee who complains about that to me.  But she's never been a manager.  I've been a manager several diferent jobs, where it was juggling at different work levels in 1 day and shifting with unpredictabilities.  Now, I don't have any direct reports, so find current job a little different.

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I worked for a local government for 7 years.  Most of the people there, worked their butts off and were honest.  But generally, the "Unconnected" employees were laid off when there were changes.  Generally, people who were not a member of a particular political party, were caught voting for the wrong guy,  not connected with certain higher ups or not members of the union; lost their jobs during lay offs.

When I joined, the Junior CTO highly suggested I join the Democratic Party.  I laughed as I thought it was a joke.  He didn't laugh.  I joined the local Librarian Party in spite.  Yes, his suggestion really happened, it was pretty fucked up.

Now, I'm not against unions at all,I support unions, so don't think my next statements are anti-union.  This situation was not normal.   But.........nearly all of the union members in our IT Department (yes, that existed), really took advantage of their situation and were dead weight.  While the union was active, new hires were not offered to join and probably for good reasons.  Most of the union members had been there for over 20 years and joining the union ended in the mid 2000s.

With that said, I can only think of one union member who took his job seriously -- his name was Bob.  Many from LF and Foo will remember Bob.  Bob was awesome!  Bob had the diabetes.  Bob really did great work and he was brilliant.  Bob wasn't a normal union member where I worked.

There were two people in the union who really impressed me in their ability to take advantage of the situation.  One, was a mainframe programmer who had been there since the early 80s.  One time, there was a program he wrote that wasn't working and was affecting DHS.  He was approached to fix the issue as soon as he walked in the door in the morning but he refused to work on the issue until he ate his breakfast.  He didn't have the diabetes -- he was just an asshole.  He actually refused to fix a pressing issue that was affecting our constituents (his real employer the taxpayer) until his needs were met.  

The second person, I never really knew what he was responsible for.  But, he collected a paycheck and bitched about The Man all day long.  He sat out front with the smokers and barked all the time about something or other.  I don't think he ever put in an honest days work there.  But, he kept his high paying job over others who lost theirs.

Anyway, I enjoyed my time working for the government for the most part.  There were long crazy days during upgrades where I didn't sleep much and there were many days were it was slow as all get out.  I stopped enjoying it when the slow days became more and more of a thing.  That's when I got out.  I started feeling guilty and to be honest, Bob was getting on my nerves.  While Bob was awesome, he was also extremely annoying.

Mudkipz

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41 minutes ago, Couch_Incident said:

I worked for a local government for 7 years.  Most of the people there, worked their butts off and were honest.  But generally, the "Unconnected" employees were laid off when there were changes.  Generally, people who were not a member of a particular political party, were caught voting for the wrong guy,  not connected with certain higher ups or not members of the union; lost their jobs during lay offs.

When I joined, the Junior CTO highly suggested I join the Democratic Party.  I laughed as I thought it was a joke.  He didn't laugh.  I joined the local Librarian Party in spite.  Yes, his suggestion really happened, it was pretty fucked up.

Now, I'm not against unions at all,I support unions, so don't think my next statements are anti-union.  This situation was not normal.   But.........nearly all of the union members in our IT Department (yes, that existed), really took advantage of their situation and were dead weight.  While the union was active, new hires were not offered to join and probably for good reasons.  Most of the union members had been there for over 20 years and joining the union ended in the mid 2000s.

With that said, I can only think of one union member who took his job seriously -- his name was Bob.  Many from LF and Foo will remember Bob.  Bob was awesome!  Bob had the diabetes.  Bob really did great work and he was brilliant.  Bob wasn't a normal union member where I worked.

There were two people in the union who really impressed me in their ability to take advantage of the situation.  One, was a mainframe programmer who had been there since the early 80s.  One time, there was a program he wrote that wasn't working and was affecting DHS.  He was approached to fix the issue as soon as he walked in the door in the morning but he refused to work on the issue until he ate his breakfast.  He didn't have the diabetes -- he was just an asshole.  He actually refused to fix a pressing issue that was affecting our constituents (his real employer the taxpayer) until his needs were met.  

The second person, I never really knew what he was responsible for.  But, he collected a paycheck and bitched about The Man all day long.  He sat out front with the smokers and barked all the time about something or other.  I don't think he ever put in an honest days work there.  But, he kept his high paying job over others who lost theirs.

Anyway, I enjoyed my time working for the government for the most part.  There were long crazy days during upgrades where I didn't sleep much and there were many days were it was slow as all get out.  I stopped enjoying it when the slow days became more and more of a thing.  That's when I got out.  I started feeling guilty and to be honest, Bob was getting on my nerves.  While Bob was awesome, he was also extremely annoying.

Mudkipz

I have worked for 4 different private sector firms for approx. 9 years. 3 of them were management roles

Sorry to hear, there were some slower  employees/not very motivated.

In govn't. worked in in jobs across 3 different jursidictions in Canada.  1 position was supervisor for 9 yrs., with direct reports whereas others were specialist.  In all these govn't jobs, I was also automatically part of union.  One doesn't get a choice for those jobs.  None of those union jobs require a person to belong to a certain political party.  I never had a problem with lazy staff because they weren't.   My work pace in govn't was no different than private sector. What people might forget is that working in govn't and if you are in dept. that is public-facing, the public expects a lot, I mean the bar is actually high which is reasonable, other times they have no clue what happens behind the scenes.  

Last year was the only time of all 23 years working for different govn'ts, that I ever could get overtime pay for a few hrs. I was part of a major enterprise wise software project upgrade. Other years, I just took work home to work on a business case/report or training session. I saw it as investing in developing my skills and adding to my career path.  This probably happens more with govn't employees than some folks even realize especially those with budget accountabilities.

There are some unmotivated people in the organization and then there are employees who aren't allowed overtime pay but they are working the azzes for several hrs. past normal hrs.  several times a wk. to meet deadlines.  The public-facing govn't departments...some have hardest jobs (which can also be rewarding at times) is public engagement sessions on contentious issues in communities, etc.  I would challenge those in the private sector to face the wrath of taxpayers who refuse to understand how much of their daily lives is supported by what they take for granted:  all the water infrastructure, roads, transit, recreation, snow removal, youth at risk programs, local bylaw safety, parks, etc.  

Sometimes it takes a terrible damaging flood to force local citizens to understand..it is STILL the municipal employees who are serving them in widespread crisis. (100.000 people were evcualted in my city/area and over $1 billion in loss).  It is govn't that is left standing at the end of the day. Not fhe private firms who could be mergecd, bankdrupted, disappear.  They don't create the legal framework, etc.  People turn to govn't in massive emergency, cirisis to take leadership and to coordinate on a large, prolonged scale….not the private sector.

I'm sorry.  The pandemic is proving this.  Now, it's the health care workers and municipal workers in Wuhan who have been pressed iinto service.

For past 2 wks., at work, internally we're getting new messages:  Do you want to  join the staff emergency group to assist citizens the next mass crisis?  There's training offered, etc. I don't drive, so I figure I can't be so useful.  I

The biggest difference for me between working for govn't vs. private...that you know a tiny part of what you do might actually last for the next few decades.  That it can make a tiny difference to the public.

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