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Ok all you dairy nazis, apologists, proponents, and vegans...


Randomguy
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...do you think dairy is good for you, bad for you, neutral, or just don't care?

For the purposes of this thread (and for the broader reality-based people of the world), the highly processed, deeply unhealthy, and chemical-composed shitmilks like oat, soy, almond and the like are not included.

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I made oat milk this morning,  I don't believe it is unhealthy.  There is minimal processing.  I did add a 1/4 tsp of xanthan gum to stabilize it a little.   

xanthan is not going to kill you.  You have likely eaten it in many foods.

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-340/xanthan-gum

We buy plain cream for coffee, because I selfishly enjoy it and can't seem to kick the habit.  Mostly, I use my oat milk for my recipes and cooking.  It seems ok.  I make a thicker batch of oat cream that my husband drinks in his coffee.  

I think that milk is ok, if you can tolerate it.  The milk industry is wack.  I don't love the wide antibiotic use.  

We still eat cheese.  Our family is all over the board with dairy and dairy substitutes.  My motivations are environmental in nature.  I have saved a myriad of containers since I started this habit. I buy my organic oats in bulk and bring them home in linen bags.

 

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Possibly good for me.  There is some evidence that animal protein is inflammatory for humans.  There's probably just as much evidence that's it's helpful to humans.

For me, it was a moral issue.  I have struggled with chewing on the flesh of a sentient being all my life.  It finally got to be too much and I stopped. 

Physically, I feel the same.

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Low-fat milk is some of the most nutrient intensive healthy food for you. From a heart perspective, non-fat milk is pretty good. Too bad the taste suffers. It's why I prefer oat or almond/cashew hybrid. I only put it on cereal or in my coffee so it's all good.

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I like milk, though I mostly drink the half-and-half I put in my coffee.

I eat cereal - mostly original Cheerios (only 4% sugar) - and mostly in warmer weather and buy almond milk and bananas or other fruit to go with it.

But every once in a while, I just have to buy a quart of milk and drink it with almost any food.

As the wise Airehead wrote, things in moderation are generally good for us - which was the philosophy of the inhabitants of Shangri La, in James Hilton's novel, "Lost Horizon" and supposedly why they were able to live for hundreds of years.

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4 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

I made oat milk this morning,  I don't believe it is unhealthy.  I did add a 1/4 tsp of xanthan gum to stabilize it a little.   

xanthan is not going to kill you.  You have likely eaten it in many foods.

 

Yeah, all those gums are deeply unhealthy, maximally processed, and disrupt normal digestion and the ability to absorb nutrients.  If you use that shit, then you are cooking with shit and eating shit, no question whatsoever.  Saying any of those gums are healthy is like saying the current president respects women, the environment, immigrants, and the middle class, all absolute lies the gullible have been told and now pass on.

And what is this nonsense about "selfishly enjoying" something?  Why is it selfish to have a preference?  If it is better, why not use better?

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2 hours ago, Dottles said:

Low-fat milk is some of the most nutrient intensive healthy food for you. From a heart perspective, non-fat milk is pretty good. Too bad the taste suffers. It's why I prefer oat or almond/cashew hybrid. I only put it on cereal or in my coffee so it's all good.

I much prefer the taste of skim milk over whole or 2%.  It just tastes better to me.  I thought the whole fat variety is supposed to much better for you, though.

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4 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

Possibly good for me.  There is some evidence that animal protein is inflammatory for humans.  There's probably just as much evidence that's it's helpful to humans.

For me, it was a moral issue.  I have struggled with chewing on the flesh of a sentient being all my life.  It finally got to be too much and I stopped. 

Physically, I feel the same.

That is the damnable thing about milk, nobody really seems to know if it is helpful, hurtful, or neutral.  I have seen some compelling evidence that it curtails  stops absorbtion of certain nutrients.  That said, other things get through, maybe.  

No moral issue for me, it is just the food chain.  Cows would eat you in a second if you were made of grass.

3 hours ago, Mr. Silly said:

I like milk.  It is a fine source of protein, vitamin D and calcium. 

Seems that way on the surface.  As I understand it, spinach has the most absorbable form of calcium, and some yahoos say you don't really absorb the calcium from dairy so much.  Other folks (the dairy council) have been telling us for decades that it is the best.

Do you trust the freaky vegan control freaks that desperately want to have you live the way they think you should live, or the dairy council who may be slightly biased themselves?

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15 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I much prefer the taste of skim milk over whole or 2%.  It just tastes better to me.  I thought the whole fat variety is supposed to much better for you, though.

The long standing theory which is being challenged is that the less saturated fat the better. My cardiologist is recommending a Mediterranean Diet so I try to adhere to it as much as possible. Basically it's the less animal or animal by-products the better.

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2 hours ago, Dottles said:

Low-fat milk is some of the most nutrient intensive healthy food for you. From a heart perspective, non-fat milk is pretty good.

Both seem like remarkably untrue and completely unverified statements.  Just wondering where your "nutrient intensive" and "heart healthy" lists are coming from???? 

I drink a good bit of milk and eat a good bit of dairy products, but pretending that MANY MANY MANY other foods aren't better for you is dopey.

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Just now, Razors Edge said:

Both seem like remarkably untrue and completely unverified statements.  Just wondering where your "nutrient intensive" and "heart healthy" lists are coming from???? 

I drink a good bit of milk and eat a good bit of dairy products, but pretending that MANY MANY MANY other foods aren't better for you is dopey.

There is a reason milk is issued to new borns. You can research it yourself. I base heart healthy only in terms of saturated fat content. I keep a running count of sat fat content. That's it for me. Your results may differ.

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23 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Yeah, all those gums are deeply unhealthy, maximally processed, and disrupt normal digestion and the ability to absorb nutrients.  If you use that shit, then you are cooking with shit and eating shit, no question whatsoever.  Saying any of those gums are healthy is like saying the current president respects women, the environment, immigrants, and the middle class, all absolute lies the gullible have been told and now pass on.

And what is this nonsense about "selfishly enjoying" something?  Why is it selfish to have a preference?  If it is better, why not use better?

You are wrong.  It's actually prescribed for some maladies.  You are not a Dietician nor a doctor, so your opinion on the topic is not something I will take to heart.  You likely eat it, and have eaten it.  Do you make everything from scratch? If you don't, you have likely eaten it here and there. No need to freak out.

From web MD:

Xanthan gum is used for lowering blood sugar and total cholesterol in people with diabetes. It is also used as a laxative.

Xanthan gum is sometimes used as a saliva substitute in people with dry mouth (Sjogren's syndrome).

In manufacturing, xanthan gum is used as a thickening and stabilizing agent in foods, toothpastes, and medicines. Xanthan gum is also an ingredient in some sustained-release pills.
 

How does it work?

Xanthan gum swells in the intestine, which stimulates the digestive tract to push stool through. It also might slow the absorption of sugar from the digestive tract and work like saliva to lubricate and wet the mouth in people who don't produce enough saliva.

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Rants from RG make me wonder what he eats in a day.  I am willing to bet he eats some of these things he says are terrible. 

Today I had an egg, an apple with PB, a homemade wheat/oat bun with spinach, cucumber, onion and some cream cheese.

Dinner is some veggie stir fry with rice.  This is a good menu.  

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19 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

That is the damnable thing about milk, nobody really seems to know if it is helpful, hurtful, or neutral.  I have seen some compelling evidence that it curtails  stops absorbtion of certain nutrients. 

Feed it to your daughter and watch her develop into a beautiful young woman by the age od 12.

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9 minutes ago, Dottles said:

There is a reason milk is issued to new borns. You can research it yourself. I base heart healthy only in terms of saturated fat content. I keep a running count of sat fat content. That's it for me. Your results may differ.

Human milk is far different than cow milk. I think you're wacky to confuse the two.

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8 minutes ago, Dottles said:

And yet they've fed babies cow milk for eons. Go figure.

The milk, and most food today, is not what it was when I was a kid.  High fructose corn syrup, aka lethal poison, did not exist when I was born.  I grew up with crap and have eaten it all my life.  My diet is better, but we've (Monsanto) have ruined the planet with pesticides and hormones.

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52 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

You are wrong.  It's actually prescribed for some maladies.  You are not a Dietician nor a doctor, so your opinion on the topic is not something I will take to heart.  You likely eat it, and have eaten it.  Do you make everything from scratch? If you don't, you have likely eaten it here and there. No need to freak out.

From web MD:

Xanthan gum is used for lowering blood sugar and total cholesterol in people with diabetes. It is also used as a laxative.

Xanthan gum is sometimes used as a saliva substitute in people with dry mouth (Sjogren's syndrome).

In manufacturing, xanthan gum is used as a thickening and stabilizing agent in foods, toothpastes, and medicines. Xanthan gum is also an ingredient in some sustained-release pills.
 

How does it work?

Xanthan gum swells in the intestine, which stimulates the digestive tract to push stool through. It also might slow the absorption of sugar from the digestive tract and work like saliva to lubricate and wet the mouth in people who don't produce enough saliva.

Yes, all those claims sound completely natural and normal, right?   It is chemically processed crap.  When that is in a product, it doesn't swell and push things through in your intestines, it stops stuff from flowing through as nature intends, this should be clear as day and should be more than a bit alarming.  If something has gums, thickeners, and stabilizers in it, I can guarantee I will have massive all-night reflux, so saying that it isn't harmful doesn't hold water.  Of all the people here, you should be looking a lot more closely at the processed crap someone else is telling is "natural" or "healthy".   

I look at ingredients in what I buy, and I don't buy anything with gums included.  I will eat a bunch of crap from time to time, but not anything that gets passed off as "non-harmful" when it clearly is.  If what you are making "needs" processed thickeners, then it isn't natural in any way.

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50 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Rants from RG make me wonder what he eats in a day.  I am willing to bet he eats some of these things he says are terrible. 

Today I had an egg, an apple with PB, a homemade wheat/oat bun with spinach, cucumber, onion and some cream cheese.

Dinner is some veggie stir fry with rice.  This is a good menu.  

I bet that on many days, I eat something akin to what you are eating.  Today I had pancakes, aloe vera juice, a lettuce and tomato and sourdough sandwich, two oranges, and tonight is going to be a stir fry with tofu, asparagus, yellow squash, red pepper, and onion.  If the celery I have is still good, that will go in, too.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.  :P

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2 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Yes, all those claims sound completely natural and normal, right?   It is chemically processed crap.  When that is in a product, it doesn't swell and push things through in your intestines, it stops stuff from flowing through as nature intends, this should be clear as day and should be more than a bit alarming.  If something has gums, thickeners, and stabilizers in it, I can guarantee massive all-night reflux, so saying that it isn't harmful doesn't hold water.  Of all the people here, you should be looking a lot more closely at the processed crap someone else is telling is "natural" or "healthy".   

I look at ingredients in what I buy, and I don't buy anything with gums included.  I will eat a bunch of crap from time to time, but not anything that gets passed off as "non-harmful" when it clearly is.

So don't eat it if you feel strongly about it.

I don't have reflux.  Maybe you should look at your diet.  Mine seems to agree with me.  

Actually, it can act as a laxative in medical use.  The exact opposite effect of your unsupported claims.  You have to consume much more though.  It is hard to even consume that much with a normal diet. Likely breathing NY air is way worse than me eating a teensy bit of xanthan.  

Look in the mirror as you eat your processed pancake mix, before returning with more baloney.

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5 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I bet that on many days, I eat something akin to what you are eating.  Today I had pancakes, aloe vera juice, a lettuce and tomato and sourdough sandwich, two oranges, and tonight is going to be a stir fry with tofu, asparagus, yellow squash, red pepper, and onion.  If the celery I have is still good, that will go in, too.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.  :P

I bet you didn't make your sourdough.  Mine has four ingredients and no dough conditioners.

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4 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Look in the mirror as you eat your processed pancake mix, before returning with more baloney.

INGREDIENTS:
WHITE WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR, WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR, WHEAT PROTEIN ISOLATE, WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, WHOLE GRAIN OAT FLOUR, MILK PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, LEAVENING (CALCIUM PHOSPHATE, BAKING SODA), BUTTERMILK POWDER, SEA SALT.
CONTAINS MILK, WHEAT.

 

Note, no thickeners.  Except for the extra protein, pretty much the same ingredients as regular pancakes that I normally make.  

7 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Likely breathing NY air is way worse than me eating a teensy bit of xanthan.

I don't claim NY air to be healthy or natural. 

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18 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

I bet you didn't make your sourdough.  Mine has four ingredients and no dough conditioners.

I don't make my own bread, I only get Trader Joe's San Francisco sourdough and stick it in the freezer until I need it.  Other than the "enriched"part of the flour, it has three ingredients, flour, water, and salt (plus whatever yeast grows in the starter).

INGREDIENTS

Unbleached Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Barley Malt, Niacin, Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin), Water, Sourdough Starter (Flour and Water), Sea Salt.

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19 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I know, most ice cream is garbage.  Xantham is the least harmful of the gums, but it sure ain't natural.

Neither is thiamine mononitate. That is a synthetic salt, and used widely as B1

You see, rg, lots of foods have pieces of processing here and there. I use a teeny amount and have no issues. You don’t want it, great. Simply don’t use it. 

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1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

INGREDIENTS:
WHITE WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR, WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR, WHEAT PROTEIN ISOLATE, WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, WHOLE GRAIN OAT FLOUR, MILK PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, LEAVENING (CALCIUM PHOSPHATE, BAKING SODA), BUTTERMILK POWDER, SEA SALT.
CONTAINS MILK, WHEAT.

 

Note, no thickeners.  Except for the extra protein, pretty much the same ingredients as regular pancakes that I normally make.  

I don't claim NY air to be healthy or natural. 

...wtf is "white whole wheat flour"  ? :huh:

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Dairy from the original source or as close as possible with some centuries old techniques...like some hand made cheeses.

I have skim or 1% milk in my cornflakes or oatmeal for breakfast.  I've always had a bit of milk from the carton or jug...for past few decades.  I may have a small slice of cheese ...the artisan stuff or stuff that's been aged, etc. several times a wk.

Interesting my 81 yr. mother drinks skim milk daily.  She only started a yr. ago. She figures it's good for her.  After all, she made sure all her children drank milk daily. (even though my parents never had dairy based diet).   I'm glad.  In my generation of Asians born in Canada you can sort of see the bone structure differences with the older generation..and height of children.  That's the comparison point if you want to compare differences in a family in diet cross cultural, generational way.

So I believe in dairy in moderation, low fat and daily.

 

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