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Trusting the right sources of govn't info


shootingstar
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I was dismayed to read that some citizens who didn't trust the simple easy to understand info. that the Canadian federal tax authorities, are giving to the public.  It was very simple.  They just didn't even want to go to the website. It wasn't even an esoteric area of tax law at all.

I realize that the public are sometimes suspicious...but if it's information from the govn't , from the govn't dept. that has the authority and responsibility to the public, it's not a bad place to start. Especially if it's info. on interpreting the law and what the citizen must /can do to help themselves.

Honest, in the areas of tax, permits, etc....govn't really has been working hard to make it easier every few years.  

Yea, I know about fake news..and every politician announces their greatest new program, etc.  The most important thing is get right to the policy, procedures, criteria and forms.  The proof is often...there. 

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24 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

People who don't believe the government are just as likely to believe someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

There are some awful govn't decisions and policies.  I think that's what people refer to..when they "hate govn't" or they ...genuninely don't take time or have some literate (I really mean that illiteracy can be an obstacle), to pay attention to some simple written instructions on a govn't website.  Or they get really impatient because they clicked on the wrong selection..and no one is around to tell them at that moment.

Or if they do something on their own property, govn't has to butt out.  Well, yes...except when it threatens someone or your own health and safety..meaning life and death.

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7 minutes ago, Dottles said:

True. Facebook is another great source.

Sometimes govn't goes onto Facebook and twitter too.  To me, that's just insane to expect people wanting to subscribe to firehose govn't twitter feed.  However.....during our massive river flood, ,the local police's twitter feed was just jammed with citizen concerns...so much that it crashed the server. :P

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2 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Sometimes govn't goes onto Facebook and twitter too.  To me, that's just insane to expect people wanting to subscribe to firehose govn't twitter feed.  However.....during our massive river flood, ,the local police's twitter feed was just jammed with citizen concerns...so much that it crashed the server. :P

It's a tough era we live in.  With all the scams and corruption, lies, and chaos in government lately, I think it's understandable for the disenchantment.  But if you don't trust the government to some extent, who do you trust?  I mean as long as man has ruled himself, mistrust has been going on, is going on, and will continue to go on and in many cases warranted.  But to not seek instruction and direction from the very same entity you are paying -- well that's just flat out stupidity.  

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17 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

There has been an awful lot of incorrect and intentionally misleading information released by the government, or do you mean the "deep state"?  If you believe the government, I have a nice bridge to sell you. 

It depends what that misleading info....is.  General broad statements by govn't require digging into the details and reading up on trends and different sources to compare over the following months.

The law can be interpreted in different ways...if that's what you're referring to.  Sorry, if there is a procedure on the web, an applicant must first follow, that's what it is.  There will always be exceptional situations that require a conversation with the right govn't employee.  They're not as horrible/incompetent as people make them out to be. However all it takes is 1 experience of being in contact with 1 office...and the entire govn't bureaucracy is broadbrushed as horrible.

(Don't get me started about Kenney's energy war room coming from the Alberta govn't...waste of millions of dollars on defending the oil industry...that's fading slowly into the sunset.. The oil CEOs are probably smiling yet cringing at the same time.  It's scaring off a lot of other different industries to set up shop in Alberta.)

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8 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

There has been an awful lot of incorrect and intentionally misleading information released by the government, or do you mean the "deep state"?  If you believe the government, I have a nice bridge to sell you. 

Nowhere is a place, bub.  Ask the Beatles.

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11 minutes ago, Dottles said:

It's a tough era we live in.  With all the scams and corruption, lies, and chaos in government lately, I think it's understandable for the disenchantment.  But if you don't trust the government to some extent, who do you trust?  I mean as long as man has ruled himself, mistrust has been going on, is going on, and will continue to go on and in many cases warranted.  But to not seek instruction and direction from the very same entity you are paying -- well that's just flat out stupidity.  

The coronavirus situation is a good one...it's very hard to discern for the ordinary joe and jane, what is real risk, vs. what is not. 

Meanwhile dearie still wants to fly over to france this May. :(

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10 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

It depends what that misleading info....is.  General broad statements by govn't require digging into the details and reading up on trends and different sources to compare over the following months.

The law can be interpreted in different ways...if that's what you're referring to.  Sorry, if there is a procedure on the web, an applicant must first follow, that's what it is.  There will always be exceptional situations that require a conversation with the right govn't employee.  They're not as horrible/incompetent as people make them out to be. However all it takes is 1 experience of being in contact with 1 office...and the entire govn't bureaucracy is broadbrushed as horrible.

(Don't get me started about Kenney's energy war room coming from the Alberta govn't...waste of millions of dollars on defending the oil industry...that's fading slowly into the sunset.. The oil CEOs are probably smiling yet cringing at the same time.  It's scaring off a lot of other different industries to set up shop in Alberta.)

Well, it is very political but in reality, the government has no business shutting down an industry that has no viable replacement.  Baby steps. 

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12 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

The coronavirus situation is a good one...it's very hard to discern for the ordinary joe and jane, what is real risk, vs. what is not. 

Not for me it isn't. I trust the free press and scientific community far more than politicians.  It's breaking out here.  There's no more debate.  On record to my understanding, only the elderly are perishing and not all of them do.  The first case ever in the US was here in Everett and the guy went home well.  The first death here in the US was in Kirkland and ummm... yeah... he didn't make it.  Essentially, the coronavirus is a bad case of the flu but it's a strain that can and should be stopped.  But it looks like it's too late.  We've come to expect the flu to be around.  From now on, it will become the flu and coronavirus season.

 

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13 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

The coronavirus situation is a good one...it's very hard to discern for the ordinary joe and jane, what is real risk, vs. what is not. 

Meanwhile dearie still wants to fly over to france this May. :(

Great rates no doubt.  I say go because you'll probably catch it here first.

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36 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

to pay attention to some simple written instructions on a govn't website.  Or they get really impatient because they clicked on the wrong selection..and no one is around to tell them at that moment.

I'd suggest that many people still may not have access to computers on a regular basis, or even at all.  And some of the things we do on a regular basis on a computer would nearly an impossible task for some.

I remember teaching people at work many years ago how to enter data into Dynacalc (a mainframe based spreadsheet) for budgets, the first year they were entered by the different departments.  There was a LOT of people who made mistakes, who were afraid to use the computer, etc... they just didn't know.  

Besides... did you ever read some of the instructions on the government web sites?  Like the IRS in the US?   That's why many people use TurboTax, or a tax consultant.    

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1 hour ago, Bikeguy said:

Besides... did you ever read some of the instructions on the government web sites?  Like the IRS in the US?   That's why many people use TurboTax, or a tax consultant.    

When you're right -- you're right.

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8 hours ago, shootingstar said:

There are some awful govn't decisions and policies.  I think that's what people refer to..when they "hate govn't" or they ...genuninely don't take time or have some literate (I really mean that illiteracy can be an obstacle), to pay attention to some simple written instructions on a govn't website.  Or they get really impatient because they clicked on the wrong selection..and no one is around to tell them at that moment.

Or if they do something on their own property, govn't has to butt out.  Well, yes...except when it threatens someone or your own health and safety..meaning life and death.

 

8 hours ago, donkpow said:

The gov't led the way in making information available for download. They were providing good technical information like specifications and stuff well before the mainstream. Even now, "experts" rely on gov't sources.

One has to differentiate between politicians and the routine every day government staffed by folks just like you and me who are trying to do a good job.

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1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

 

One has to differentiate between politicians and the routine every day government staffed by folks just like you and me who are trying to do a good job.

You have hit it on the nail, max.  "Course the sad thing, is that we don't hear enough often of staff who have done a good job.  Sometimes it happens at the front counter, in a crisis.

Yes, the govn't workers also want science to support what they do.  …..that's why bike counters are installed in bike lanes to counter shrieking no one uses the bike lanes, comments from drivers.  Then post all the metrics on the 'Net. 

I have to go to work soon, now.

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Of course there's a lot of lying in government. But sometimes government laws don't do very well because everything about their development is made public and the fact there were arguments in develop become arguments by a public that takes it out of context.

When I was a member of my county's Landfill Laws Commission, we were required by law to tape all of our private meetings.  People were afraid to say things that would be taken out of context on both the side of private operations and environmentalism.  So we decided to conduct all our serious, argumentative business in the first half of the meeting, then discuss non-controversial aspects in the second half of the meeting: recording the 2nd half of the meeting over the same tape (this was in the '80's) we had recorded the first half of the meeting.  We ended up with laws done so well about set-backs of landfills from residential and business developments, requirements for isolation of dumping pits, requirements for storage of coal at coal-fired power plants, etc. that State and Federal Commissions came to us for information.  If we couldn't legally kill the records of the verbal discussions of the first half of those meetings, nothing would have been accomplished.  There were written minutes that avoided details of some discussions.

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On 3/1/2020 at 8:32 PM, Wilbur said:

Well, it is very political but in reality, the government has no business shutting down an industry that has no viable replacement.  Baby steps. 

Nor does govn't like in Alberta, should divert 30 million dollars to 1 industry that's fading. And cut health care, education budgets.  The provincial leader has already scared off some other different industry firms to set up shop in province.  30 million dollars is to simply be a communications mouthpiece to defend the industry. That's it and deeply shocking waste of money and effort. Retrograde thinking. 

 

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9 hours ago, MickinMD said:

When I was a member of my county's Landfill Laws Commission, we were required by law to tape all of our private meetings.  People were afraid to say things that would be taken out of context on both the side of private operations and environmentalism.  So we decided to conduct all our serious, argumentative business in the first half of the meeting, then discuss non-controversial aspects in the second half of the meeting: recording the 2nd half of the meeting over the same tape (this was in the '80's) we had recorded the first half of the meeting.  We ended up with laws done so well about set-backs of landfills from residential and business developments, requirements for isolation of dumping pits, requirements for storage of coal at coal-fired power plants, etc. that State and Federal Commissions came to us for information.  If we couldn't legally kill the records of the verbal discussions of the first half of those meetings, nothing would have been accomplished.  There were written minutes that avoided details of some discussions.

Interesting...requires committee members to have resilence to plough through the 2nd portion of meeting.

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On 3/2/2020 at 6:10 AM, maddmaxx said:

One has to differentiate between politicians and the routine every day government staffed by folks just like you and me who are trying to do a good job.

I agree however, politicians form governments and deceit and corruption can trickle up or down.  Depends on the motivators.   In Canada, a recent study showed "alternate energy" sources can at best, supply 17% of energy required for transportation, housing and manufacturing.  The rest comes from fossil fuels.  Canada's imbecilic leader hasn't gotten a grasp on that simple concept and is trying in every way possible to shut down the fossil fuel business.  This, like everywhere else, should be a 50 to 75 year plan, not a 10 year plan.  He will pull out all the stops to secure himself a seat at the UN Security Council.  Pandering at the risk of ruin. 

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48 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Canada's imbecilic leader hasn't gotten a grasp on that simple concept and is trying in every way possible to shut down the fossil fuel business.

I don't follow that stuff but there is a lot of movement away from sinful companies and activities.

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1 hour ago, donkpow said:

I don't follow that stuff but there is a lot of movement away from sinful companies and activities.

It is responsible for the US export increases of late.  There is pressure to move away but the US isn't following that path yet.  They will be smart about it and taper down rather than "jump off a cliff" shut it down.  :)  China won't even hit peak output of emissions until 2050 and India won't be changing much over that time span.   

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3 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

This does sort of explain why CAnada never got to the Moon, eh?

We cancelled a fighter that would have kicked anything the US had in production.  Our aerospace industry has been plagued by bad political decisions. 

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5 hours ago, Wilbur said:

We cancelled a fighter that would have kicked anything the US had in production.  Our aerospace industry has been plagued by bad political decisions. 

Are you referring to the Avro Aero that former PM Deifenbaker cancelled the program....and some of those Canadian engineers went the NASA program?  Dearie said that cancellation of the program, wiped out his dreams of going into aerospace engineering.

I did see the Canada Space Arm at the University of Toronto, in Downsview.  I was in the building deck behind the glass.  My brother-in-law had his office in a building beside the Insitutue for Aerospace STudies.  Back in the 1980's.

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