shootingstar Posted April 4, 2020 Share #1 Posted April 4, 2020 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/3m-n95-masks-1.5520326 A business contract which Germany had with 3M for their order of masks, was diverted. Honest, it feels like war. I'm deeply saddened. This is like a deep dark sci-fi movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #2 Posted April 4, 2020 I am a fan of nationalism to a point. Depriving nations of life saving equipment is no different than any other kind of genocide. That was ill conceived and will bite the US if it is let stand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Zacharia Posted April 4, 2020 Share #3 Posted April 4, 2020 It’s also been said that the US Federal reserves of PPE and medical equipment isn’t for the States to access, but instead for “us”. Our “leader” isn’t particularly nuanced in his approach to diplomacy, both domestic and international. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #4 Posted April 4, 2020 It seems that people are using priorities to direct the flow to where it's needed the most. At least I hope it's going to where it's needed the most. In CT, ventilators that are surplus and not in use in some hospitals are being moved to hospitals that are running out. edit: New York state has an executive order in place that allows the state to requisition supplies from some parts of the state to move them to other parts of the state where they are more in need. I'm sure this feels wrong to the hospitals where they are being taken away but perhaps they are more needed in New York City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickinMD ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #5 Posted April 4, 2020 6 hours ago, shootingstar said: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/3m-n95-masks-1.5520326 A business contract which Germany had with 3M for their order of masks, was diverted. Honest, it feels like war. I'm deeply saddened. This is like a deep dark sci-fi movie. 3M has warned, according to CBS News on Saturday AM, that there are a lot of imported things that may become restricted by other countries, in retaliation, if America begins restricting things like accepted orders for masks. Note that the German order was placed when Germany was reacting to coronavirus and Trump was doing nothing. It's like the kid who didn't bother to bring his lunch to school stealing one from another kid. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #6 Posted April 4, 2020 You can always trust your enemy to be your enemy but you can't trust your allies to be your allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Totin Jack ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #7 Posted April 4, 2020 I thought it was a dick move and the US will pay the price down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted April 4, 2020 Share #8 Posted April 4, 2020 I don’t disagree with any of the posts above but... We have the highest number of confirmed cases of CV19 than any other country and it’s growing. Lay blame where you must but the fact remains we have a critical shortage of PPE’s for our healthcare workers who are now taking to the media to force action. Grocery store workers are doing the same. Yeah it sucks for the people in those countries impacted but I don’t have a problem with the American President prioritizing American lives. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted April 4, 2020 Share #9 Posted April 4, 2020 According to the 3M CEO, it's possible that the US could suffer a reduction in the quantity of masks imported. A couple of factors come into play. 3M is the world's leading supplier of the masks. A large percentage of the masks are manufactured off shore. The only way to increase the quantity of masks for the US is to increase production in this country. 3M is working on this very thing. Due to the reduction in demand in China, the quantity of masks shipped to the US has increased. The CEO also outlined the company's existing plan, which has been implemented, to ensure they could cover a "surge" of demand in this country. This policy was enacted after previous severe epidemiological threats. This is the kind of thing we were looking at when our supply chain from China was disrupted. The previous leniency in trade has resulted in many of the things that could inhibit the ability to meet demands within this country during a crisis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #10 Posted April 4, 2020 2 hours ago, MickinMD said: 3M has warned, according to CBS News on Saturday AM, that there are a lot of imported things that may become restricted by other countries, in retaliation, if America begins restricting things like accepted orders for masks. Note that the German order was placed when Germany was reacting to coronavirus and Trump was doing nothing. It's like the kid who didn't bother to bring his lunch to school stealing one from another kid. Start by recalling the 3000 nurses that drive from Windsor to Detroit for their shifts every day. That way, our retired medical folks can stay that way. All the ventilators in the world won't do a damn thing for your without qualified staff to run them. I think this is a real dick move by DT. Lets see what happens. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted April 4, 2020 Share #11 Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Wilbur said: Start by recalling the 3000 nurses that drive from Windsor to Detroit for their shifts every day. That way, our retired medical folks can stay that way. All the ventilators in the world won't do a damn thing for your without qualified staff to run them. I think this is a real dick move by DT. Lets see what happens. Fucking do it and see what happens. Samuel Jackson has our back, who's got yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted April 4, 2020 Share #12 Posted April 4, 2020 I don't have a problem with it. I've spent most of my career in defense industry and I think this will prompt laws similar to those you see for defense where a certain percentage of critical supplies must be manufactured in US to protect the nation. And I've read from numerous sources that 3M was not acting responsible to begin with as they were still working as if everything is normal and it's an open free market. They were actively having countries bidding against each other for supplies and looking at increasing their profits off of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted April 4, 2020 Share #13 Posted April 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Indy said: I don't have a problem with it. I've spent most of my career in defense industry and I think this will prompt laws similar to those you see for defense where a certain percentage of critical supplies must be manufactured in US to protect the nation. And I've read from numerous sources that 3M was not acting responsible to begin with as they were still working as if everything is normal and it's an open free market. They were actively having countries bidding against each other for supplies and looking at increasing their profits off of this. Of course you don't. I wonder what your comment would be if they were diverted away from US. This whole virus thing makes me sad every single day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted April 4, 2020 Share #14 Posted April 4, 2020 31 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: Of course you don't. I wonder what your comment would be if they were diverted away from US. This whole virus thing makes me sad every single day. They are being diverted away from the US now, that's the issue. If it wasn't an American company (3M is an American company) and the company was taking care of it's home country first, I'd understand as most countries have rules to protect their interest first. I've always lived by the rule that you can't help anyone if you don't help yourself first, and that is true, if we are sick and in trouble, we are in no position to be helping anyone else, so take care of ourselves and then we can better help others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted April 4, 2020 Author Share #15 Posted April 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Indy said: They are being diverted away from the US now, that's the issue. If it wasn't an American company (3M is an American company) and the company was taking care of it's home country first, I'd understand as most countries have rules to protect their interest first. I've always lived by the rule that you can't help anyone if you don't help yourself first, and that is true, if we are sick and in trouble, we are in no position to be helping anyone else, so take care of ourselves and then we can better help others. It's a nice thought, then as Wilbur suggested earlier CAnada withdraw several thousand Canadian nurses who cross the border from Windsor Ontario area and work daily in U.S. hospitals in the Detroit area. And don't say, "we don't care". You folks NEED nursing expertise, using the ventilators in patients and ton of other things. Otherwise, Prez. DT, orders by instituting law to redistribute nurses and doctors from other parts of U.S. to American areas where covid-19 is highest. Be like Chinese leader, Xi....listen to me, go and I don't care about your freedoms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted April 4, 2020 Share #16 Posted April 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, shootingstar said: It's a nice thought, then as Wilbur suggested earlier CAnada withdraw several thousand Canadian nurses who cross the border from Windsor Ontario area and work daily in U.S. hospitals in the Detroit area. And don't say, "we don't care". You folks NEED nursing expertise, using the ventilators in patients and ton of other things. Others DT, orders by instituting law to redistribute nurses and doctors from other parts of U.S. to American areas where covid-19 is highest. Be like Chinese leader, Xi....listen to me, go and I don't care about your freedoms. Why do those nurses cross the border every day to work in the US? I suspect it is for the pay check. https://news.3m.com/blog/3m-stories/3m-response-defense-production-act-order 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted April 4, 2020 Share #17 Posted April 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Indy said: They are being diverted away from the US now, that's the issue. If it wasn't an American company (3M is an American company) and the company was taking care of it's home country first, I'd understand as most countries have rules to protect their interest first. I've always lived by the rule that you can't help anyone if you don't help yourself first, and that is true, if we are sick and in trouble, we are in no position to be helping anyone else, so take care of ourselves and then we can better help others. I thought we diverted them here. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #18 Posted April 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, Indy said: They are being diverted away from the US now, that's the issue. If it wasn't an American company (3M is an American company) and the company was taking care of it's home country first, I'd understand as most countries have rules to protect their interest first. I've always lived by the rule that you can't help anyone if you don't help yourself first, and that is true, if we are sick and in trouble, we are in no position to be helping anyone else, so take care of ourselves and then we can better help others. 3M is a multi national country. They don't manufacture masks in Canada but they do a lot of other medical equipment that is not produced in the US. Until now, the two nations have been codependant and rely on one another to optimize supply chain. DJT changed the rules. He doesn't get this. The raw materials they use for those masks comes from Canada. See a problem here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted April 4, 2020 Share #19 Posted April 4, 2020 Just now, Dirtyhip said: I thought we diverted them here. Sorry. We did because 3M was diverting them to other countries. We would order, other countries would out bid us for the supplies, so they would ship them there, so we are in a continue state of on order with no delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #20 Posted April 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, donkpow said: Why do those nurses cross the border every day to work in the US? I suspect it is for the pay check. https://news.3m.com/blog/3m-stories/3m-response-defense-production-act-order We are having to bring 700 people in Ontario out of retirement as staff become ill. There is no shortage of work here for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted April 4, 2020 Share #21 Posted April 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Indy said: If it wasn't an American company (3M is an American company)... The 3M Company is an American multinational conglomerate corporation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted April 4, 2020 Share #22 Posted April 4, 2020 Just now, Wilbur said: 3M is a multi national country. They don't manufacture masks in Canada but they do a lot of other medical equipment that is not produced in the US. Until now, the two nations have been codependant and rely on one another to optimize supply chain. DJT changed the rules. He doesn't get this. They are headquartered in the US, that makes them a US company per definition. My wife could go into that better, but they get US tax breaks and various other benefits by being headquartered in the US and thus a US company. So as a US company, even if the manufacturing is outside of the US, they have to comply with US laws and rules. They can always move when this is all over should the wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted April 4, 2020 Share #23 Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Wilbur said: We are having to bring 700 people in Ontario out of retirement as staff become ill. There is no shortage of work here for them. Maybe it would be a good time to immigrate. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted April 4, 2020 Share #24 Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, donkpow said: The 3M Company is an American multinational conglomerate corporation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M Thanks for confirming what I said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted April 4, 2020 Share #25 Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Wilbur said: We are having to bring 700 people in Ontario out of retirement as staff become ill. There is no shortage of work here for them. I don't mean to be contentious but this is an argument for the Canadian gov't to prohibit critical professions from working outside the country. The threat to prohibit these people from working in the US is mute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #26 Posted April 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: Maybe it would be a good time to immigrate. Come on up! I will tell you where to cross and what to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #27 Posted April 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, donkpow said: I don't mean to be contentious but this is an argument for the Canadian gov't to prohibit critical professions from working outside the country. The threat to prohibit these people from working in the US is mute. They don't have US citizenship or green cards. Revenue Canada could make it a really bad idea for them to continue work in the US. I see Trumps actions as an act of war. His action will have repercussions. In war, you can do anything you like to prohibit the cross border workers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #28 Posted April 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Indy said: They are headquartered in the US, that makes them a US company per definition. My wife could go into that better, but they get US tax breaks and various other benefits by being headquartered in the US and thus a US company. So as a US company, even if the manufacturing is outside of the US, they have to comply with US laws and rules. They can always move when this is all over should the wish. WRONG. Any corporation operating in Canada is subject to Canadian law first. Not the entire company, just the Canadian based operations. The taxes are looked after in the Canada/US tax treaty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted April 4, 2020 Share #29 Posted April 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Indy said: Thanks for confirming what I said? I don't understand the question. You can read as well as I can. The article outlines the complexity of the business model. The President has exercised the legal right to direct the company to act according to his wishes. Until he did that, there was no legal requirement for the company to act as you would like. They did act according to their self defined mission and were acting responsibly. They made their case by stating the facts in their press release and in the interviews with the news media. I don't understand your beef and you haven't presented any references to support what you state are facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted April 4, 2020 Share #30 Posted April 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Come on up! I will tell you where to cross and what to say. I want to enter legally. Dual citizenship, permanent residency. Tell me a town on the West coast that has good biking and a hospital. One that is is somewhat small. No large cities. Squampton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted April 4, 2020 Share #31 Posted April 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Wilbur said: I see Trumps actions ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted April 4, 2020 Share #32 Posted April 4, 2020 @Indy @Wilbur Let's try to keep things civil. I think talking about this is important but we will have to lock the thread, if it gets volatile. We are in a very tough time in the world. Lots of us need to discuss things, politely, with other humans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted April 4, 2020 Share #33 Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Indy said: I don't have a problem with it. So would you have a problem with them shutting down production in the States because Canada is no longer going to supply the pulp to make them? If a plant here re-tooled and said "we will make them, give us the raw materials." as a majority of the pulp comes from here? Canada has said they will not do that, because they are not dicks, but with your stance that would be best decision of us to make. Unless it is from 100% inside your own borders....., they should be sharing the wealth 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted April 4, 2020 Share #34 Posted April 4, 2020 I believe the President's action are more of a political move than anything else. If the tide turns and Americans voice the opinion that they support ensuring our friends have adequate supplies, he would force that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted April 4, 2020 Author Share #35 Posted April 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, donkpow said: Why do those nurses cross the border every day to work in the US? I suspect it is for the pay check. https://news.3m.com/blog/3m-stories/3m-response-defense-production-act-order Of course, would American nurses from other areas of U.S. want to move over closer to work near the border? There's probably problem a shortage of qualified nurses in various parts of the U.S., as there is in Canada. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted April 4, 2020 Share #36 Posted April 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: I want to enter legally. Dual citizenship, permanent residency. Tell me a town on the West coast that has good biking and a hospital. One that is is somewhat small. No large cities. Squampton? Define 'small'? Google Nanaimo mountain bike trails or check out trail forks...., and all within a couple minutes of the city. Nanaimo is a city of 80,000 but you can drive ten minutes and be in the middle of nowhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted April 4, 2020 Share #37 Posted April 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Zephyr said: So would you have a problem with them shutting down production in the States because Canada is no longer going to supply the pulp to make them? If a plant here re-tooled and said "we will make them, give us the raw materials." as a majority of the pulp comes from here? Canada has said they will not do that, because they are not dicks, but with your stance that would be best decision of us to make. Unless it is from 100% inside your own borders....., they should be sharing the wealth You get it. We need to help each other. There is no place for selfishness right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted April 4, 2020 Share #38 Posted April 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Zephyr said: So would you have a problem with them shutting down production in the States because Canada is no longer going to supply the pulp to make them? If a plant here re-tooled and said "we will make them, give us the raw materials." as a majority of the pulp comes from here? Canada has said they will not do that, because they are not dicks, but with your stance that would be best decision of us to make. Unless it is from 100% inside your own borders....., they should be sharing the wealth That's why we have to pull stuff back within our border for these situations just like in most defense type laws and for see that as being the outcome of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted April 4, 2020 Share #39 Posted April 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said: I want to enter legally. Dual citizenship, permanent residency. Tell me a town on the West coast that has good biking and a hospital. One that is is somewhat small. No large cities. Squampton? And... google "steve smith bike park" which is maybe a mile from the hospital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted April 4, 2020 Share #40 Posted April 4, 2020 Thanks, @Zephyr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #41 Posted April 4, 2020 28 minutes ago, Indy said: Truth hurts, huh? No, not at all. The problem with the US is that it has been a military leader too long. Just like any power, it corrupts the thoughts and actions. Canada is 1/10 the size of the US. We don't have a large military because the US is our only potential enemy. That potential is starting to prove out. Nowhere, have I stated or hinted that military action would be in order. That is the typical American fallback position. Any war, if any, will be in the form of trade and resources. You need us onside every bit as much as we need you. It is that simple. When the supply chain breaks, everyone loses. The orange one will catch on. BTW Indy, Trump has declared himself a wartime president. So, blame him when people respond with the word "war". Depriving another nation of agreed upon resources through supply chain choking, it is considered an act of war. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted April 4, 2020 Share #42 Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Wilbur said: No, not at all. The problem with the US is that it has been a military leader too long. Just like any power, it corrupts the thoughts and actions. Canada is 1/10 the size of the US. We don't have a large military because the US is our only potential enemy. That potential is starting to prove out. Nowhere, have I stated or hinted that military action would be in order. That is the typical American fallback position. Any war, if any, will be in the form of trade and resources. You need us onside every bit as much as we need you. It is that simple. When the supply chain breaks, everyone loses. The orange one will catch on. You mean you don't need a large military because you are dependent on the US for most things including protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted April 4, 2020 Share #43 Posted April 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Indy said: You mean you don't need a large military because you are dependent on the US for most things including protection. Actually, we are not. There are only 3 countries in the world, Canada could not defend itself against. The US, China and Russia. If either Russia or China were to invade, the US would defend the territory for their own gain (resources and distance). Canada would have no say in that. You do know your first line of defence from Russia is Canada, right? This is why we share this thing called NORAD. Like I say, the only nation we have to worry about is the US. When you get a renegade nationalist POTUS, it makes for nervous times. So, we don't depend on the US at all. You can't afford to lose Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted April 4, 2020 Share #44 Posted April 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, Wilbur said: The problem with the US is that it has been a military leader too long. This is part of the renegotiation with NATO. WWII left the US accepting responsibility for the economic consequences of global war. The relationship between Canada and the UK opened the door for Canada to reap more benefits from the alliance with the US. Being a neighbor simply means a mutual defense pact would be maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted April 4, 2020 Share #45 Posted April 4, 2020 This thread is getting locked because of angry abusive comments and too much politics. Walk it off, people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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