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Are you fussy about where you die?


Wilbur

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1 hour ago, Indy said:

not even close to the top killer.

Ok, that is because it wasn't around in 2018, that chart is useless in this argument.  We will have to wait and see stats for March and April and May 2020 before we have any real idea of where this is heading.  Even if it isn't a top killer, it certainly seems a damn miserable way to die.

One main reason the count will be low is because of all the social distancing going on, it would be higher in that big risk groups otherwise.  It is pretty worrisome to folks who realize that yeah, the vast majority  don't die from it, but if you are in the 15% who it REALLY turns on, you are going to be in the hospital for a week or more.  Of that 15%, a full third need a ventilator and have a 50% chance of survival, but it goes to 0% if you don't get the ventilator.

Another aspect of this, and a massive reason to be serious as fuck about it is the ease of transmission.  I would hate to think that me not taking it seriously killed my parents or the nice man/woman I work with who has kids that will now have a bad life because I listened to the dickhead on tv that doesn't know shit from his own asshole.  Those people that are croaking are somebody's father/mother/son/daughter/brother/friend and you can't be so flippant about it because it isn't you directly.

Nobody wants it to happen that way when they really think about it, but so many people really aren't thinking it through.   We can all loosen things up a bit when sufficient ventilators/masks/triple-strength medical condoms are available to everyone, and a lot more when a vaccine that works is broadly released.

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I don’t understand what is being considered over reaction or hysteria. We’re all staying at home, venturing out only for food, essential activities, and for some of us work. Is this an over reaction in some people’s minds?

There are “only” 552 cases in my county, and only three deaths, but I don’t think the stay at home order is unreasonable, because I think without interventions all of that would be turned in it’s head. To me, 10% death rate is if we pretended everything was normal, we all went about our business, and whoever caught it ended up as nature intended. But if fewer people get sick at once, the death rate can be kept closer to 2%. Seems like a worthwhile goal?

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1 hour ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I don’t understand what is being considered over reaction or hysteria. We’re all staying at home, venturing out only for food, essential activities, and for some of us work. Is this an over reaction in some people’s minds?

There are “only” 552 cases in my county, and only three deaths, but I don’t think the stay at home order is unreasonable, because I think without interventions all of that would be turned in it’s head. To me, 10% death rate is if we pretended everything was normal, we all went about our business, and whoever caught it ended up as nature intended. But if fewer people get sick at once, the death rate can be kept closer to 2%. Seems like a worthwhile goal?

Even at normal, not sure data supports 10%.  I agree it's worth trying to reduce the numbers, but also sick of people acting hysterical like this is the apocalypse.  Yes it's a fast moving disease and the worst is overwhelming the hospitals in the short term which will also affect their ability to care for other serious issues.  But in the long range over the entire year, the disease isn't going to be anywhere near the top of the death charts, now the economic impact could be very bad though.  Already seeing businesses closing for good around here.  Small businesses, especially ones that have to lease a storefront are going to be absolutely devastated.

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45 minutes ago, Indy said:

Even at normal, not sure data supports 10%.

It’s 12% in Italy, 9% in Spain. So I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to think it could hit 10% IF we didn’t do a lock-down. NY is at 3% even with social distancing efforts. I agree it’s not the plague where everyone exposed will likely die, but again I don’t see the response as hysterical, even if it “just” saved 20,000 lives. 

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11 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

It’s 12% in Italy, 9% in Spain. So I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to think it could hit 10% IF we didn’t do a lock-down. NY is at 3% even with social distancing efforts. I agree it’s not the plague where everyone exposed will likely die, but again I don’t see the response as hysterical, even if it “just” saved 20,000 lives. 

Is that 3% of the population or infected.  I think the stat measure is getting mixed up and confused and according to Worldmeter, only 5% of cases in Italy are even serious or critical, that just cases and yes I just looked at the numbers as I am typing this.

So I don't believe 12% among the population can possibly be correct, when only 5% of active cases are serious or critical and that's with numbers still increasing.

I think that is the problem is people are getting all the numbers mixed up on what the percentage is based.

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3 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

Infected. 12% of the infected Italian population died. 3% of the infected NY population has died. Worldwide it’s 5.3%, at least with the numbers we have.

Okay, and that I think is where people are getting confused as they are looking at the percentages and saying population and not infected.  Also Italy has oldest population in Europe from my understanding, so a lot higher numbers in the high risk group.

 

I know it sounds like I might belittling the situation, I am not and am taking the matter seriously, there just seems to be a hysteria with people acting like half the population or something going to be wiped out.

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2 minutes ago, Indy said:

hysteria with people acting like half the population or something going to be wiped out.

I’m not sure where you’re hearing this, but would you agree that without our current lock-down status, the infection rate would be WAY higher, and that with overwhelming infection rates, the death rates would go much higher, and the total number of deaths would be pretty huge? That’s a non-hysterical way of saying it, I think?

That NYC isn’t at 10% is a reflection that a lot was learned from what happened in Italy, despite it being difficult to stomach as individuals. It seemed like overkill when my Governor locked us down on 3/17, although in retrospect he should have done it on 3/14, when he announced what was coming, he should have instead just put it in effect immediately. Citizens took longer to figure out it wasn’t a joke, of course.

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I think the hysterical portion of the discussion (and maybe the part that I agree w/Indy) is people think that you get Covid & it's a death sentence. The truth is a lot of folks recover from it. And as poor as our testing (and rationing of testing) there are likely  a bunch of folks that have had it & recovered without knowing it

Not to diminish the people that are suffering now

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4 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

 

I think the hysterical portion of the discussion (and maybe the part that I agree w/Indy) is people think that you get Covid & it's a death sentence.

 

I think the opposite is true, a lot of people think it’s nothing if you aren’t older with pre-existing medical conditions. 
 

I just checked, 2000 people in my state under the age of 50 have been hospitalized for Covid in 3 weeks.  I think that’s worse than a lot of people anticipated?

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1 minute ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I think the opposite is true, a lot of people think it’s nothing if you aren’t older with pre-existing medical conditions. 
 

I just checked, 2000 people in my state under the age of 50 have been hospitalized for Covid in 3 weeks.  I think that’s worse than a lot of people anticipated?

this is a problem....

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Just now, Prophet Zacharia said:

I think the opposite is true, a lot of people think it’s nothing if you aren’t older with pre-existing medical conditions. 
 

I just checked, 2000 people in my state under the age of 50 have been hospitalized for Covid in 3 weeks.  I think that’s worse than a lot of people anticipated?

You have idiots in every groups and to add to that, there are millenials that are basically celebrating this and calling the Boomer killer.  They actually think this is a good thing and that the boomers are the cause of all their problems.  Freaking sad ass people.

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1 minute ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I think the opposite is true, a lot of people think it’s nothing if you aren’t older with pre-existing medical conditions. 
 

I just checked, 2000 people in my state under the age of 50 have been hospitalized for Covid in 3 weeks.  I think that’s worse than a lot of people anticipated?

 we all need to work together to keep from spreading it...to all ages & conditions

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2 hours ago, Indy said:

You have idiots in every groups and to add to that, there are millenials that are basically celebrating this and calling the Boomer killer.  They actually think this is a good thing and that the boomers are the cause of all their problems.  Freaking sad ass people.

I agree with this. And it sickens me.

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I also don't care about what they do with my remains.

There was an episode of Star Trek the Next Generation where humans observed, on the Enterprise, the Klingon Death Ritual for the first time.  After it was over, the Enterprise crew asked the Klingons what they wanted done with the body.  "You may do with it as you wish. It is now just an empty husk."

Those watching it with me were a little shocked, but not me.  I feel the same way.  When I'm dead, I don't know if my spirit continues to exist, but clearly "I" will no longer occupy the container I'm currently in.

Of course, funerals are for the living - not for the dead.  So I want to be cremated, have my friends and relatives celebrate my life/death on one of those party boats that go between Baltimore and Annapolis in a couple hours and during the short cruise, dump my ashes in the Bay so they can provide nutrients that end up in crab shells, etc.

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My sister in law's mother in law is real close to passing. Her husband has a transplanted heart and is not going out for anything.

He is freaking over his mothers death, and funeral.

It is easy to say suck it up buttercup....but we have never spent time in someone else's head..

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19 hours ago, Zephyr said:

That happens more often than you would think.  

I know.....I know....I'm aware of that........which is why I insist on being fully dressed...waistcoat, tie and polished shoes... whenever I have a bowel movement.

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