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Square Wheels

Well that was a depressing conference call

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They outlined the plan for allocating critical resources when they are in short supply, essentially a plan for who lives and who dies.

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7 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

They outlined the plan for allocating critical resources when they are in short supply, essentially a plan for who lives and who dies.

Yeah, they've had similar discussions out here.  Nobody wants to do it but it's inevitable. Thank you for doing the best that you can.  I think I'll stay home for another couple months.  To hell with the economy.

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1 minute ago, Dottles said:

Yeah, they've had similar discussions out here.  Nobody wants to do it but it's inevitable. Thank you for doing the best that you can.  I think I'll stay home for another couple months.  To hell with the economy.

I'm calling Greta!  This is a great chance to rebuild the economy in a more sustainable way.

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8 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

I'm calling Greta!  This is a great chance to rebuild the economy in a more sustainable way.

I hope my loaners understand that.

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So what is the criteria?

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13 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

So what is the criteria?

I'm thinking:

1. If your bike avatar is Randomguy, you gotsta go.

2. If you're over 90 -- sorry.

3. If you're over 80 -- sorry.

4. 70?  Wish we could help

5. 60? How much money you got?

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And people with disabilities won’t get help. 

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7 minutes ago, Airehead said:

And people with disabilities won’t get help. 

Sadly, I think you're right. And it disgusts me.  But they are resource intensive.

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10 minutes ago, Airehead said:

And people with disabilities won’t get help. 

This was a very clear point.  Unless your disability affects your ability to not die, this is not considered.  No bias against race, religion, disability, ability to pay...  

32 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

So what is the criteria?

SOFA was half of it.  https://clincalc.com/IcuMortality/SOFA.aspx

Coexisting morbidity and the likelihood of you dying from it was the other half, e.g. advance Alzheimer's...

The patient's caregiver does not make the decision, it is made by an independent team.

It was hard to listen to, but it sounded fair.

Two of the presenters where physician ethicists.  They said healthcare workers will not be given preferential treatment.

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2 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

 They said healthcare workers will not be given preferential treatment.

The doctors and nurses who were/are treating COVID-19 folks absolutely should be given preferential treatment. If they survive, won't they be immune and then be a super-hero?!?!!  We can then send them all around the nation/world chasing the hot spots.

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17 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

The doctors and nurses who were/are treating COVID-19 folks absolutely should be given preferential treatment. If they survive, won't they be immune and then be a super-hero?!?!!  We can then send them all around the nation/world chasing the hot spots.

They should but then it comes across as preferential. Also I forgot to put you up there with RG.

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Just now, Dottles said:

They should but then it comes across as preferential. Also I forgot to put you up there with RG.

It is preferential - ie I prefer to have doctors and nurses to help cure/treat me! 

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6 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

It is preferential - ie I prefer to have doctors and nurses to help cure/treat me! 

So their life is more valuable than say yours or mine? 

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12 minutes ago, Dottles said:

So their life is more valuable than say yours or mine? 

Their life can save mine.  I don't trust you to know/perform the work needed to keep me alive if it gets bad.  They can.  I'd prioritize Wilbur over his flight attendant and the flight attendant over the kid in seat 13B.  My odds are 100% with Wilbur, 50/50 with the flight attendant, and zero with the kid.

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15 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Their life can save mine.  I don't trust you to know/perform the work needed to keep me alive if it gets bad.  They can.  I'd prioritize Wilbur over his flight attendant and the flight attendant over the kid in seat 13B.  My odds are 100% with Wilbur, 50/50 with the flight attendant, and zero with the kid.

What about me, you arsehole.

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3 minutes ago, Dottles said:

What about me, you arsehole.

It was nice knowing you.. :) 

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My wife noted that the triage being done by nurses and EMT's is going to lead to stress related issues for those folks down the road. They didn't sign on to decide who lives and dies

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4 hours ago, Dottles said:

I'm thinking:

1. If your bike avatar is Randomguy, you gotsta go.

2. If you're over 90 -- sorry.

3. If you're over 80 -- sorry.

4. 70?  Wish we could help

5. 60? How much money you got?

I am suspecting that this entirely accurate. 

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8 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I am suspecting that this entirely accurate. 

Except you're not at the top, buddy.  I jest.

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It’s the people more likely to live when supplies and beds run low. I believe they would save RG. 
i also believe they would work to save me, unless I was in competition with a 30 year old. The 30 year old would get the care. 
 

this is why we stay home right now 

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I have no idea where I fall on the saveability chart. I hope to not find out.

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1 hour ago, Further said:

I have no idea where I fall on the saveability chart. I hope to not find out.

I have great hope for all of our forumites. I did some mindful meditation and focused of believing us all well and healthy.  I guess that is my form of praying. 

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1 hour ago, Dirtyhip said:

believing us all well and healthy

Considering this is a cycling forum, even though we don't discuss that much.  I'd suggest that the one thing that we may have in common is we probably actually exercise more often (maybe a lot more often) than most people our age.  I'd guess most of us are healthy compared to many people our age.  

One thing I've noticed over the last few weeks, we have meet most our neighbors in our new neighborhood.  For example...  WoBG and I walk our dogs each morning, about 1 1/2 miles. The only thing that stops us are outside temps cold enough to cause our dogs to start lifting their paws generally about 10F (they hate the boots), or lots of rain.  So, that means we walk just about every morning.  The neighbors... for most they open the door, and if they bother to go out with the dog, they may walk about 50 feet.   Just a few are seen walking in the neighborhood.  

I started riding back in 2003.  My doctor noticed (maybe in 2004 or 05) my health was considerably better. He told me whatever you are doing, keep doing it. I told him I just ride my bike. 

Here is one example about health and COVID-19.  https://www.cardiosmart.org/News-and-Events/2020/03/Heart-Patients-Warned-of-Risks-from-Coronavirus

 

 

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11 hours ago, Further said:

My wife noted that the triage being done by nurses and EMT's is going to lead to stress related issues for those folks down the road. They didn't sign on to decide who lives and dies

In our case, it's decided by a team.  A computer will spit out the determination, but that will then be evaluated by a team of people.  No one on that team is caring for the patient.

10 hours ago, Randomguy said:

I am suspecting that this entirely accurate. 

In our case, it is 100% not true.  Age is one factor.  Someone with leukemia (and 1 year to live) and 17 would rank lower than an otherwise healthy 85 year old.

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Triage is not ideal.  It never is.  It is necessary for times where needs exceed resources.    

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12 hours ago, Dottles said:

So their life is more valuable than say yours or mine? 

Yes.

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16 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

This was a very clear point.  Unless your disability affects your ability to not die, this is not considered.  No bias against race, religion, disability, ability to pay...  

Good to hear this was said.  Many disabilities have accompanying health issues (seizures, need for suction, etc...) but others do not. My goal is still to keep our kids healthy. Focused effort. 

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