City deficits & recovery- not normal @ recovery

[shootingstar]

So our city laid off 1,200 employees so far --they were primarily contract and part-time.  I doubt all of them will be called back to work when covid-19 is over...probably for us by Dec. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-cities-face-massive-financial-shortfalls-because-of-covid-how-can/   The big cities which have known covid-19 cases, will be seriously dented/cratered --budget-wise. 

So in prairie city we were already running a deficit of several million for past few yrs. before pandemic...due to falling oil/gas economy. 

There will be more staff cutbacks / just not replacing those who retire.  Good thing our city voted down being host city for 2026 winter Olympics

[2Far ★]

Well, the sociopath extreme pessimist in me thinks that, although the virus is real, the toll it is taking on patients "with one or more underlying conditions" makes me think that, on some level, the plan is to let nature take its course. Let the old & afflicted  go before they burn up any more SS/SSDI/Medicade/Medicare money and that the deficits will go away.

[shootingstar]

Just now, 2Far said:

Well, the sociopath in me thinks that, although the virus is real, the toll it is taking on patients "with one or more underlying conditions" makes me think that, on some level, the plan is to let nature take its course. Let the old & afflicted  go before they burn up any more SS/SSDI/Medicade/Medicare money and that the deficits will go away.

You would be great as Attila Hun or Genghis Khan.

[2Far ★]

3 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

You would be great as Attila Hun or Genghis Khan.

Maybe, I did edit my post slightly.

[MickinMD ★]

2 hours ago, 2Far said:

Well, the sociopath extreme pessimist in me thinks that, although the virus is real, the toll it is taking on patients "with one or more underlying conditions" makes me think that, on some level, the plan is to let nature take its course. Let the old & afflicted  go before they burn up any more SS/SSDI/Medicade/Medicare money and that the deficits will go away.

That sounds harsh, but actually, that's what we basically do with the flu each year.  If it killed mostly working-age people, there would be mandatory vaccinating for flu and pneumonia, some years might result in shelter-in-place, and you'd be inoculated for more than the 2 A and 2 B strains now (2 A + 1 B in the high-dose senior versions).

But the flu kills mostly the elderly and that doesn't hurt the economy much so it's tolerable.

At some point, the economy will need to be unfettered and there will certainly be a question of how many additional deaths are tolerable?

[shootingstar]

2 hours ago, MickinMD said:

But the flu kills mostly the elderly and that doesn't hurt the economy much so it's tolerable.

At some point, the economy will need to be unfettered and there will certainly be a question of how many additional deaths are tolerable?

Until we get a vaccine, not convinced about complete loosening of controls by different jurisdictions (not all) who are still strict.

[ChrisL]

2 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Until we get a vaccine, not convinced about complete loosening of controls by different jurisdictions (not all) who are still strict.

To what extent are you expecting vaccines to take place?  Not sure about Canada but our flu vaccination rate is pretty low here for many reasons other than our health care system.  Maybe more will get a C19 vaccine but many won’t. 

Unless it’s mandatory I don’t think you can  count on a vaccine being the deciding factor for loosening controls.

[maddmaxx ★]

5 hours ago, 2Far said:

Well, the sociopath extreme pessimist in me thinks that, although the virus is real, the toll it is taking on patients "with one or more underlying conditions" makes me think that, on some level, the plan is to let nature take its course. Let the old & afflicted  go before they burn up any more SS/SSDI/Medicade/Medicare money and that the deficits will go away.

Thank you very much. You probably don't mean it the way it sounds, but to those of us in the target group it sounds more like I'd hear from a kid on spring break.

[2Far ★]

2 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Thank you very much.

Doood, I’m not that far behind you. 

[maddmaxx ★]

Just now, 2Far said:

Doood, I’m not that far behind you. 

Sorry, I'm not volunteering to be part of the plan.

[shootingstar]

35 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

To what extent are you expecting vaccines to take place?  Not sure about Canada but our flu vaccination rate is pretty low here for many reasons other than our health care system.  Maybe more will get a C19 vaccine but many won’t. 

Unless it’s mandatory I don’t think you can  count on a vaccine being the deciding factor for loosening controls.

I said lifting all controls off won't happen until the vaccine.  In Canada, we've been told approx. 12-18 months possibly for vaccine....this is from Dr. Theresa Tam, the federal public officer of health. 

In our organization, I'm certain they may put half of employees directly back at the office..to give us social distancing. They've already set up 5,400 employees to work from home...and this probably will continue for some employees. Work from home arrangements already existed in various depts. for past few years as a formalized method of work....it's not done casually. Employee must sign on paper and commit to specific day(s) each week  so it's clear understanding between manager and employee. I can easily see some dept. alternating, staggering office employees to work from home x days per week.

Our organization has 6 different unions...so complete lifts won't occur until vaccine comes.  As for the flu immunization in Canada ...it's free to any resident of Cnaada with their provincial health card. Free annually....probably for past 10-15 years.  In Alberta, a pharmacist can administer the shot. 

I say the flu shot is free, regardless of your income in canada….family members get their shot in B.C. and Ontario.  

[Razors Edge ★]

6 hours ago, shootingstar said:

So in prairie city we were already running a deficit of several million for past few yrs.

You guys can readily run deficits? Seems sketchy.

[shootingstar]

5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

You guys can readily run deficits? Seems sketchy.

No, it's a few political yahoos. The rest of the locals are disgusted and exhausted. Some people prior to pandemic, were advocating for Alberta to separate from Canada. As an independent country. It's freakin' pathetic and insular. You have to understand parts of Alberta are viewed as highly conservative and redneck.. It's usually the younger, educated generations and those who have moved from other provinces/countries that do some kickass of old, outdated ideas.

I hope their traps are voluntarily shut after the pandemic, with the action by the federal govn't to help those who lost their jobs due to business shutdowns.

[Square Wheels]

Keep it on vaccines if you want, but stop the politics.

[Wilbur ★]

20 hours ago, 2Far said:

Well, the sociopath extreme pessimist in me thinks that, although the virus is real, the toll it is taking on patients "with one or more underlying conditions" makes me think that, on some level, the plan is to let nature take its course. Let the old & afflicted  go before they burn up any more SS/SSDI/Medicade/Medicare money and that the deficits will go away.

Having helped my father with doctors in his final years, I found it difficult to believe how dismissive the doctors get when it comes to the aged.  It isn't the same level of care at all. 

[2Far ★]

5 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Having helped my father with doctors in his final years, I found it difficult to believe how dismissive the doctors get when it comes to the aged.  It isn't the same level of care at all. 

It's kind of a whole 'nother issue, but the medical technology's ability to keep folks alive seems to have outpaced the morals/ethics of keeping people alive.

[Indy]

You can not keep things shut down for a year, that will kill more people than the virus and could throw us into third world country status.  At this point another month could be devastating for many.  Things are going to have to be opened back up, you keep restrictions in place for the high risk groups, primarily nursing homes, but the rest of us have to move on and pickup immunity the old fashion way until a vaccine is available.  Per people I know in the medical community and drug developers, that could be as early as Fall, but they official word is at least a year up to prevent people from being idiots.

[Parsnip Totin Jack ★]

25 minutes ago, Indy said:

Per people I know in the medical community and drug developers, that could be as early as Fall, but they official word is at least a year up to prevent people from being idiots.

Ain’t no vaccine gonna stop people from being idiots. 🤣

[Indy]

Just now, Old#7 said:

Ain’t no vaccine gonna stop people from being idiots. 🤣

No, you can only try and lessen their impact on others.  That's why they having to shut down outdoor spaces now, because idiots think they can gather and hangout there.  There are actually people that believe sunshine kills the virus, so if you are outside when you are socializing, you can't catch it.

[shootingstar]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

You can not keep things shut down for a year, that will kill more people than the virus and could throw us into third world country status.  At this point another month could be devastating for many.  Things are going to have to be opened back up, you keep restrictions in place for the high risk groups, primarily nursing homes, but the rest of us have to move on and pickup immunity the old fashion way until a vaccine is available.  Per people I know in the medical community and drug developers, that could be as early as Fall, but they official word is at least a year up to prevent people from being idiots.

For certain workplace configurations, the phasing in of some employees could be done.  It gets more complicated when other workers have public facing jobs continuously..shall we use the grocery workers as an example of "resilience" with their pexiglass protection and gloves?  

 

[Indy]

8 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

For certain workplace configurations, the phasing in of some employees could be done.  It gets more complicated when other workers have public facing jobs continuously..shall we use the grocery workers as an example of "resilience" with their pexiglass protection and gloves?  

 

Would you prefer those people be homeless?  That is the reality you are looking at.