Timing Vehicles in Traffic While Passing Parked Cars

[Mr. Beanz]

I do it, you should too! So it is our right to ride on the road but if I can help avoid getting hit from behind, I'll lost a couple of seconds on my ride.

I bring this up as a buddy, who rides the exact same roads and area I ride, is always having problems. Too many close calls, too many risks, accidents, crashes. He has just got over an injury that took him over a year to recover. 

So now he sent me a video, of him going around a parked car. Front as he approaches then the rear recorder as a vehicle passes really close. He ends up exchanging words with the driver at the next intersection but the driver doesn't seem to care.

I watch the video and think, wow yeah that was close! 

But upon further inspection, I notice, he goes around the parked car without so much as slowing. Not one car before the passing vehicle, and only one car behind that. 

So as mentioned, our right to ride on the road but why not take a second or two in an attempt to stay alive, or safe?

I ride the same exact roads at night and HAVE ZERO close calls. But I think I set myself up that way, day or night.  When I see a parked car on the side, I make sure I am aware of my surroundings. A little steep incline on my ride just about always has a parked car on the side. Strange but always one car and always a different car. But anyway, as I approach, I maybe be doing 15-20. Traffic is 50 and the same road my buddy has his problems. As I am approaching, even though I feel like I'm kicking butt on the section, getting hit is more of an issue that requires my attention in these situations.

As I approach the parked car, I look back even if I don't hear anyone. They can be 50-100 yards back but those suckers are coming fast. Sometimes I can't count to 10 before they pass me. I am always shocked how fast a car can catch up but knowing that, I pay attention to my surroundings even more. I stutter step/pedal, even stop if I have to if it means letting the car pass me before approaching the parked car. Like I said, it wouldn't even be a ten count in many cases. I'd rather slow a bit, let the car pass then continue on safely. 

Sometimes the good drivers will sense or know that I am planning to go around so they slow allowing me to go around safely. That is the BOMB and hats off to the good guys, and I meet a lot of them on the road. I have had instances where a driver will slow down and flash their lights at me signaling me to go ahead as they slow as well. That is great! I get lots of shielding from good drivers while out on the road, really helps in hairy situations.

So I watch my buddy's video several times. There is the close call car and another right behind it. Looks bad but then I start asking myself what would I do in this situation? Then watching the video a few more times, I know I myself would not have been in that situation as i would not have put myself there. I slow, let the cars pass then pass the parked car safely. At times there is a lot of traffic as I approach the parked vehicle so I signal with my arm. Many, many, almost all drivers knowing it is crazy busy and I having to pass a parked car, will slow and allow me to pass.  I say 98% of the time. The other 2%, I am willing to wait for a good driver or an open space. 

So looking at the video, I can tell that he did not signal. No sway or shake of the camera. I know when I let go of one side of the bars while recording, I see the view sway to one side or another and the scene will shake like a rattle from no supporting the bars stable. So I can tell he didn't look back or let the bars go to signal. This is the kind of stuff that I have to stop and think that if he had signaled, the driver MAY have been more aware that he was even there. Or gave him more room. 

But most of all, had my buddy slowed half a step 30 yards back to allow traffic to catch and pass easier, he would have not been in that situation at all. I was taught running an over head crane via remote strapped onto my chest while working at a steel company, that you do not put yourself in pinch points. A 2,000 lb C hook can really do same damage to people who put themselves there. It happened several times to different people who were trained exactly the same way I was. People were seriously hurt but that was because they put themselves there after being properly trained. Just that people don't pay attention to their surroundings being in a hurry or too lazy to look around.

So I say, stay alive, avoid accidents, be aware, and let traffic pass before you pass a parked car. Amazing now that I watch the video of his incident and think of what kind of fool he is being on the bike.  I can see why all the other accidents happened.

I have said it many times, I can not count the times I have signaled a turn or a move and had both lanes of a fast moving road, slow and let me cross or go by safely. I think people can sense what kind of a rider you are and if you are courteous, they are in return.

Forget that, my speed is not as important as staying out of a wheel chair. And honestly, I think drivers respect a cyclist more when they see they are trying to ride safely using signals and all. Pay attention!

 

[Razors Edge ★]

I think I am the anti-Beanz although I absolutely think the "Pat attention" part is ESSENTIAL. It all starts and ends there - if you have situational awareness, you can be both proactive in avoiding things, but also can signal where it matters to stay reasonable safe out there.

 

[Mr. Beanz]

7 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

I think I am the anti-Beanz  

 

Yes, I think you are. Blowing 2 stoplights and cutting in front of pedestrians who are stepping out into the crosswalk is not my style at all.  

[Razors Edge ★]

15 hours ago, Mr Beanz said:

Yes, I think you are. Blowing 2 stoplights and cutting in front of pedestrians who are stepping out into the crosswalk is not my style at all.  

Way more than 2 stoplights.  Probably 15+ in each direction.  Similar to walking in the city, cross traffic will have huge gaps where pedestrians, cyclists, scooters, etc. can easily cross an intersection.  It's an urban jungle and I have zero worries or issues with crossing against a light.  Cutting in front of pedestrians is actually more a foreshortening of the perspective, so the peds are usually 3+ feet ahead of me, but not always. Again, sort of a city vs burb difference where local folks walking in the city are a different breed of ped vs out in the burbs or with tourists.  Rush hour can be a crazed time, and getting through traffic safely but also at a reasonable pace requires constantly checking my surroundings, considering options, and acting on those opportunities to move through traffic.

[Further]

On 11/10/2021 at 4:43 PM, Mr Beanz said:

So I watch my buddy's video several times. There is the close call car and another right behind it. Looks bad but then I start asking myself what would I do in this situation? Then watching the video a few more times, I know I myself would not have been in that situation as i would not have put myself there.

My first experience riding a motorcycle in traffic was in Denver. I had a ton of trail bike riding under my belt, but no street experience, especially in heavy, rush hour traffic. I had just bought my bike, a Honda 350, my buddy was with me on his 350. Riding home from the dealer where I bought the bike I had about 5 close calls in as many miles, even jumping a curb once to get out of trouble. On arrival at my house my bud was practically gushing about my riding skill, getting out of all those jams. I was thinking I shouldn't have gotten into the tight spots to begin with.

It took a couple weeks but the close calls ended as I gained experience in traffic. Awareness and anticipation of other drivers allowed me to avoid tight spots rather than having to get out of them.  

[Mr. Beanz]

16 hours ago, Further said:

My first experience riding a motorcycle in traffic was in Denver. I had a ton of trail bike riding under my belt, but no street experience, especially in heavy, rush hour traffic. I had just bought my bike, a Honda 350, my buddy was with me on his 350. Riding home from the dealer where I bought the bike I had about 5 close calls in as many miles, even jumping a curb once to get out of trouble. On arrival at my house my bud was practically gushing about my riding skill, getting out of all those jams. I was thinking I shouldn't have gotten into the tight spots to begin with.

It took a couple weeks but the close calls ended as I gained experience in traffic. Awareness and anticipation of other drivers allowed me to avoid tight spots rather than having to get out of them.  

That is funny. I have a friend who did a ton of riding. We were training for a century with 10,000 ft (just to show he wasn't a beginner).  We were descending a winding mountain road and he sucked. 

He was taking left hand turns at high speed with his left foot pedal down. Wow, scared the snot out of me a few times. I gave him some advice and he improved a bunch.

But one of his comments was that he has no problem doing the ride on his motorcycle but his bicycle was much scarier. I thought riding a motorcycle would have helped him out but I'm guessing the lack of outbound pedals, he never had to think of that. 

[Razors Edge ★]

On 11/16/2021 at 1:28 PM, Mr Beanz said:

That is funny. I have a friend who did a ton of riding. We were training for a century with 10,000 ft (just to show he wasn't a beginner).  We were descending a winding mountain road and he sucked. 

He was taking left hand turns at high speed with his left foot pedal down. Wow, scared the snot out of me a few times. I gave him some advice and he improved a bunch.

But one of his comments was that he has no problem doing the ride on his motorcycle but his bicycle was much scarier. I thought riding a motorcycle would have helped him out but I'm guessing the lack of outbound pedals, he never had to think of that. 

Folks seem to get REALLY excited heading into a steep long descent.  LOTS of chances for having too much speed for a corner or miscalculating how much it turns or even, at speed, which way the road is going.  I remember one epic descent in a group ride where it was carnage approaching a sweeping turn after a serious straight drop in the road.  A few crashes and even a couple loud pops from tires exploding (too much heat build up?).  These folks got up the climbs okay, but the descent likely ruined their day.   I blame nerves/excitement.

[Mr. Beanz]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Folks seem to get REALLY excited heading into a steep long descent.  LOTS of chances for having too much speed for a corner or miscalculating how much it turns or even, at speed, which way the road is going.  I remember one epic descent in a group ride where it was carnage approaching a sweeping turn after a serious straight drop in the road.  A few crashes and even a couple loud pops from tires exploding (too much heat build up?).  These folks got up the climbs okay, but the descent likely ruined their day.   I blame nerves/excitement.

Exactly! I rarely ride my brakes when descending. GMR is about 20 miles of descending switchbacks, 3 short climbs back, on the way down.

But the last section is 8 miles of all downhill. I try not to touch my brakes but approaching a switchback, the faster ones, I will feather my brakes before getting there. Then let go. Very little braking to avoid overheating the rim.

One of our female friends is a really good climber. We rode up together in a group of buddies once. She was the first to the top. I held back with Gina who is most times the slowest climber.  Our buddy went to the top of the 8 mile climb, then back down to meet up at about mile 7. Then rode back up with us again. Did great!

But on the way down, everybody rolled down no problem. I think Gina averages about 26 on the descent of 8 miles. Our buddy mentioned that she was not too good on the descent. So I held back with her as the others rode off. It was almost amazing that we went down the mountain, about a 6% grade at about a 9 MPH average speed. I know most people are not too comfortable on a downhill not having practice. But I was shocked at this speed. 

It's funny to think that if it were a race between her and Gina, up and down, Gina might be able to beat her even though she was so far behind on the climb. Not that we go up there to race each other, but interesting to think about how that might  work out. 

[Razors Edge ★]

16 hours ago, Mr Beanz said:

It's funny to think that if it were a race between her and Gina, up and down, Gina might be able to beat her even though she was so far behind on the climb. Not that we go up there to race each other, but interesting to think about how that might  work out. 

I rode an event with my friends - a couple who were West Point grads, very athletic, and pretty fearless.  I noticed after the first big climb and the following steep descent that the woman would disappear behind us on the descent.  Three things were against her - 1) weight (she was 25% or more lighter than us), 2) skill (not a lot of descending experience), and 3) hand size/comfort using the brake levers.  

For the next descent, I stuck back with her and it was torture.  I watched her death grip on the bars and how she would brake early, often, and way too much.  In places her husband would run out of gears going down, we'd be doodling along - me literally not pedaling and having to encourage her not to panic.  It went from a fun adventure, to one of testing my "coaching" nerves, but I knew there was no other option besides the broom wagon for her, and I and her hubby were not gonna just drop her and roll off.  Since the event ended in a long climb, at least we didn't have to finish on a tortured descent.

Back home, on rolling terrain, she was perfectly fine.  But darn, those steep descents just KILLED her.  And emotionally were also tough on her. She knew she should do better on them, but just couldn't. 

[Mr. Beanz]

Speaking of smaller lighter riders! This really amazed me on a GMR ride. Mountain switchbacks with 2300 ft descent, close to 6% grade for 8 miles.

I have a buddy, Jason. About 5'5 and 120 pounds, SUPER CLIMBER.  He at one time held position 5 out of thousands of riders climbing the mountain road. 8 mile climb, 2300 ft.  Give you an idea, there are 18,000 plus descenders on the segment I looked up so just as many climbers I am sure.

Anyway, one can see around the mountain climbing and descending. Switchbacks, curves, roads carve into the mountain so easy to lose sight at times but ability to see others coming from a mile ahead.

So one day I see Jason up there. We chat and as I am leaving, he says he is going to wait a bit then try to catch me on the downhill. I am a pretty good descender, around 1700 out of 18,000+ riders and I don't push myself going down for safety reasons. 

I kind of laugh seeing I outweigh the guy by at least 110 pounds.  So I head down and sure enough, I look back up the mountain and I can see him around the saddle and switchbacks heading down after me. I can see him at least 1/4 to half mile behind. I pick up the pace and try to keep ahead of him. The guy kills me easily on the climb so I should at least beat him on the downhill.

I was totally surprised. No motors assist back in those days and even so, it he had one, it wouldn't be able to do the speed he was doing on the dh. It wouldn't help on the downhill but I know he didn't have a motor back in 2009'ish. Plus he's a clean up front type of guy. I saw him smoke a group of 30 or so forum members on a GMR group ride. Plenty of good riders and climbers that showed up. 

Anyway, I see him far back and figure he can't catch me but I am giving it my all. After a few minutes and maybe 2 miles, he goes whizzing by me!  What, no way! 

That was when I gave up the lighter rider can't beat me on a downhill thoughts that I had from reading stuff on cycling forums. It's true, some of the little guys can descent really well and fast. 

I think his thing was pure skill because it wasn't his size. 

 

Downhill stats, not too bad on the descent

 

 

 

Give you an idea of the layout. There is still road to the left of the image to get to the far side. I could see him behind me with about 4 of these switchbacks. Didn't think he had a chance but he blew by me and dropped me like a bad habit. 

Yeah, Gina has ridden this mountain many times. Anywhere from 2300 ft gain to 5,000. One year she did it every other weekend for about 4 months. And I can't get "many" of my friends to go. 

[Razors Edge ★]

Cool story!

The "lighter rider" concept is about apples-apples.  I outweigh Alberto Contador a ton, and he would drop me like a bag of hammers on a descent.  Heck, I outweigh 90+% of the pro peloton and I doubt I could drop any on a serious descent - and that would be after being seriously drummed on the climb first   Pure physics, though, dictate the bigger folks go faster downhill than the smaller folks.  Luckily, all things are rarely equal, so sometimes the smaller dudes can have better descending skills, different gearing, higher risk tolerance, and certainly a familiarity with a descent.  I could also see how those switchbacks would give your smaller buddy an advantage as his lower weight would help in the turns and then not needing to accelerate as great a mass would be helpful.  Long and straight descents would play out differently, and where what I was dealing with when I rode with my friends. She should have been able to get up to speed, stay tucked, and drop as fast a gravity would let her, but she never got into the flow of it and instead got tighter and sketchier as the speed would go up (and then come down as she started braking).

I think in Strava, most of the leaderboard will be fairly slim folks simply from the way those folks are built. It's sort of a repeating cycle - ride more, improve at riding, lose weight, ride more, improve....  There is a fine line, though, for all cycling types where less is eventually NOT better, but generally most of us never approach that level.