Amazon and Barnes & Noble

[Razors Edge ★]

The bricks and mortar thread got me thinking about Barnes & Noble again. It's interesting that folks are seemingly seeing them in a positive "light" these days. It does make me realize memories are short and the past is quite rosy. Remember Monkey discussing books, bookstores, B&N, and ebooks? I don't think B&N was ever a positive influence in those days (the not too distant past). B&N disrupted the local book store, and Amazon disrupted B&N.

On the plus side, for folks wavering between the lesser of two evils, both Amazon and Nook (B&N) books can generally be used interchangeably on their enemies platform - or an iPad/Android tablet.  It requires a little extra effort on the person's part to strip the DRM from the files, but after that, the books, in electronic format, can be used on any platform. The most portable format - printed - is still great but bulky as hell. But, on the plus side, in a catastrophe, the printed word will survive much longer than an ebook will. Heck, we might all be screwed as we get sucked into an endless churn of new tech that requires constant vigilance to ensure our precious electronic files are still readable, backed up, and not degraded over time.

Tom

[Further]

My kindle reader is telling me that it is full. I guess that is the digital equivalent of a full bookshelf. But I'm pretty sure I can put the books on a chip of some sort, that I will promptly lose.   

[Razors Edge ★]

I use Calibre and it handles moving stuff around and organizing things pretty well. Certainly, I have backups on various laptops and external HDs. It is also a helpful part of the DRM removal process.

Tom

[dinneR ★]

18 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

The bricks and mortar thread got me thinking about Barnes & Noble again. It's interesting that folks are seemingly seeing them in a positive "light" these days. It does make me realize memories are short and the past is quite rosy. Remember Monkey discussing books, bookstores, B&N, and ebooks? I don't think B&N was ever a positive influence in those days (the not too distant past). B&N disrupted the local book store, and Amazon disrupted B&N.

On the plus side, for folks wavering between the lesser of two evils, both Amazon and Nook (B&N) books can generally be used interchangeably on their enemies platform - or an iPad/Android tablet.  It requires a little extra effort on the person's part to strip the DRM from the files, but after that, the books, in electronic format, can be used on any platform. The most portable format - printed - is still great but bulky as hell. But, on the plus side, in a catastrophe, the printed word will survive much longer than an ebook will. Heck, we might all be screwed as we get sucked into an endless churn of new tech that requires constant vigilance to ensure our precious electronic files are still readable, backed up, and not degraded over time.

Tom

That's a pretty spot on analysis. The industry needs balance. Amazon, the chains, and the indy stores all need to exist and survive. It's good for publishers and the customer. Certain books will sell really well at an indy store because a bookseller can handsell it. Other things sell really well online. You really can't browse online or get recommendations. Amazon's reviews are fraught with fraud. I tried to craft my selection of books so people could stumble on things they had never heard of. We recommended unknown authors. 

From the publisher side, some books would have the majority of their sales on amazon. Older books that might otherwise be forgotten. Stores would not stock them because they might sell one copy every year or two. It's better to free up the dollars and shelf space for titles that your customers want and reserve these books for ordering. 

The indy stores, for the most part, are thriving. The good ones have found their niche. They can craft their inventory to customer demand, host events, focus on regional books. It can work, but there is no safety net. The chains and amazon have investors so they can survive a downturn. 

BN needs to reinvent itself if they want to survive. 

[Dottleshead ★]

19 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Heck, we might all be screwed as we get sucked into an endless churn of new tech that requires constant vigilance to ensure our precious electronic files are still readable, backed up, and not degraded over time.

That pretty much describes the 21st century.

[Voodoo Child]

I'm not sure what you're referring to as far as B&N, but the bigger issue, by far, was the demise of Border's, which, IIRC, was much larger than B&N. They failed to adapt, having gone through a number of CEO in a very short time period. Having said that, I won't shop Amazon because they carry merchandise that is offered by a certain family that we're not supposed to talk about here (and I've notified them of that, and I'm reasonably sure, based on their non response to me of a year ago, they don't care), so I use B&N, both online and at a "local" store about 25 miles from here. Now that I'm retired, I'm trying to get back into my previous reading habit, and have forced myself to spend at least an hour or two daily to "question everything."

[dinneR ★]

1 hour ago, Voodoo Child said:

I'm not sure what you're referring to as far as B&N, but the bigger issue, by far, was the demise of Border's, which, IIRC, was much larger than B&N. They failed to adapt, having gone through a number of CEO in a very short time period. Having said that, I won't shop Amazon because they carry merchandise that is offered by a certain family that we're not supposed to talk about here (and I've notified them of that, and I'm reasonably sure, based on their non response to me of a year ago, they don't care), so I use B&N, both online and at a "local" store about 25 miles from here. Now that I'm retired, I'm trying to get back into my previous reading habit, and have forced myself to spend at least an hour or two daily to "question everything."

Borders was a smaller company than BN. Fewer stores, lower sales, no web presence, no ebooks. Borders made a number of huge mistakes. CEO position was a revolving door. They gave up on internet sales way to early. Borders went out of business because they ran the company into the ground. During the 90s, Borders was more profitable than BN.

BN has seen shrinking sales for a number of years now. They spun off the college division. The nook division is in a free fall. It lost almost $100mil. in 2016. They are closing stores as leases expire. They've tried a new concept store. Opened 5 or 6 then nothing. They need to figure out what the future is or they will go under like Borders.

[Voodoo Child]

I stand corrected (well, actually i'm sitting, but that doesn't sound the same). For some reason I thought Borders was bigger, before they went belly up. 

[Ralphie ★]

I miss the music section of B&N.

[dinneR ★]

12 hours ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

I miss the music section of B&N.

Borders had one of the best music sections in retail. They were the NARM large retailer of the year for a number of years. They changed the business. They had about 300 CDs on listening stations. They dominated the categories of classical, opera, folk, jazz, new age, soundtracks, international, and blues. The other big retailers like Best Buy, Musicland, and Tower focused heavily on country, pop/rock, and hip hop. 

[Razors Edge ★]

I grew up with local books stores, followed by some bigger bookstores moving in (Encore Books), followed much later by the trend to "Big Books" with Crown, Books-a-million, Borders, and B&N. Until last year, DC had a B&N about three blocks from my office, and it was a great lunchtime stop in cooler weather. Do some browsing and see what's new on the shelves. That store is gone, but we still have the smaller independents around, and the suburbs still have a few B&Ns as well as a hodge-podge of smaller shops.

What's sort of interesting is the parallel trend in electronics stores. Folks bemoaned the rise of the Circuits City and the Best Buy, but now those stores are on the ropes (or gone) - likely for the same reasons as B&N.  I'm the type of person who cannot for the life of me figure out how ANY bricks-and-mortar retail joint stays in business. I wander through stores, and think - damn, this overhead must be insane. I don't see how the numbers add up - rent, salaries, inventory, etc all seem to be very large numbers relative to the traffic I see at the cash registers.

Tom 

[dinneR ★]

17 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I grew up with local books stores, followed by some bigger bookstores moving in (Encore Books), followed much later by the trend to "Big Books" with Crown, Books-a-million, Borders, and B&N. Until last year, DC had a B&N about three blocks from my office, and it was a great lunchtime stop in cooler weather. Do some browsing and see what's new on the shelves. That store is gone, but we still have the smaller independents around, and the suburbs still have a few B&Ns as well as a hodge-podge of smaller shops.

What's sort of interesting is the parallel trend in electronics stores. Folks bemoaned the rise of the Circuits City and the Best Buy, but now those stores are on the ropes (or gone) - likely for the same reasons as B&N.  I'm the type of person who cannot for the life of me figure out how ANY bricks-and-mortar retail joint stays in business. I wander through stores, and think - damn, this overhead must be insane. I don't see how the numbers add up - rent, salaries, inventory, etc all seem to be very large numbers relative to the traffic I see at the cash registers.

Tom 

It's crazy how it works. I worked big box in the 90s. We paid $50k/month for rent and the company thought that was a bargain compared to other stores. 4th quarter is off the charts. You couldn't get the product on the shelves fast enough. I don't know if it's any cheaper for amazon. If you remove the tax breaks, what kind of profit will they make? It's crazy the benefits we've given to the company that can afford to pay more than anyone else.

[Ralphie ★]

2 hours ago, dennis said:

Borders had one of the best music sections in retail. They were the NARM large retailer of the year for a number of years. They changed the business. They had about 300 CDs on listening stations. They dominated the categories of classical, opera, folk, jazz, new age, soundtracks, international, and blues. The other big retailers like Best Buy, Musicland, and Tower focused heavily on country, pop/rock, and hip hop. 

So what the heck happened?  I guess just the downfall of the cd. 

[dinneR ★]

15 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

So what the heck happened?  I guess just the downfall of the cd. 

Borders did not adapt. Downloading and streaming cut into their CD and DVD sales. Amazon cut into their book sales. They virtually skipped ebooks. They sold their web biz off. They sold the warehouse to Ingram and let amazon handle all internet sales. Tick tock until they were done.

[Ralphie ★]

Just now, dennis said:

Borders did not adapt. Downloading and streaming cut into their CD and DVD sales. Amazon cut into their book sales. They virtually skipped ebooks. They sold their web biz off. They sold the warehouse to Ingram and let amazon handle all internet sales. Tick tock until they were done.

B&N was the one I was thinking of. Borders was similar though. 

[dinneR ★]

 

Just now, RalphWaldoMooseworth said:

B&N was the one I was thinking of. Borders was similar though. 

BN has a similar problem. Too many stores with big rent. They've virtually eliminated DVDs and CDS and added toys and games. Probably a wise move. Their book selection has shrunk. I'm not sure how they will survive. Their new concept stores have full service restaurants in them. They'd be better off with smaller neighborhood stores in some areas. The cost of closing existing stores to open new ones might be too great. They fired their last CEO in less than one year. 

Working for a small publisher trying to sell books to them was beyond frustrating. They've cut their purchasing dept to the bone.

[Razors Edge ★]

21 hours ago, dennis said:

The nook division is in a free fall. It lost almost $100mil. in 2016. 

They should NEVER have tried to become or to emulate a TECHNOLOGY company. Ridiculously stupid. Yeah, transformation can occur, but they would have been much better off leaving the tech side of things to Sony or Kobo or someone other than themselves. 

Tom